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At one point does your "gut" take precedence over proof?

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hurtyetstrong posted 4/30/2014 13:08 PM

In over 3 years I have seen a wide range of illicit activity by my WH. Plenty of nude photos, phone sex, Skype sessions, Facebook messages, texts, etc.

However he adamantly claims that is all there is. That there has never been physical sex with any of these women. My gut tells me this is a big fat lie and he's only sticking to it because I have no hard-rock proof that he has acted upon it.

It is so hard to make huge life decisions based on a gut feeling. However, my gut told me never to marry him in the first place so maybe my gut knows WH way better than I do.

GabyBaby posted 4/30/2014 13:11 PM

Definitely.
I didn't have hard evidence for MOST of my XWH's activities, but my gut feeling was that he was still cheating and telling me bold-faced lies.
Like your WH, my XWH would only admit to SOME of the things for which I had proof. And even THEN he'd try to minimize or tell me that that the apple I'm looking at is actually an orange.

Trust your gut.

selfrespect911 posted 4/30/2014 13:13 PM

Always trust your gut. Proof is just semantics. Sure, it's nice to have, but if your gut doesn't trust him, there's a reason.

Pentup posted 4/30/2014 13:24 PM

i have seen a wide range of illicit activity by my WH. Plenty of nude photos, phone sex, Skype sessions, Facebook messages, texts,

Is that not enough? I understand wanting to see the smoking gun. It was not until my pastor said, he never compliments any woman besides his wife, that it hit me. Married men with good boundaries protect their wives from having to even worry about this crap. That is what I want.

You don't have to see his penis inside another person to feel less than in your marriage. If he is putting you and your needs first, then he would not be doing any of the above to make you uncomfortable.

Trust your gut.

hurtyetstrong posted 4/30/2014 13:33 PM

Married men with good boundaries protect their wives from having to even worry about this crap. That is what I want.

Pentup, that's what I want too. And really, all that I've seen should be MORE than enough.

[This message edited by hurtyetstrong at 1:33 PM, April 30th (Wednesday)]

Ostrich80 posted 4/30/2014 13:38 PM

Absolutely!! For 2+ years before DD1, I had nothing as far as proof. Just a strong gut feeling that he was cheating..trust me, I was searching like a mad woman for that 2 years, searching his truck, every box in his closet, even trash he threw away from his truck ( yea I dumpster dove), but I found not so much as a receipt showing a location or time that would help my case. Eventually he made a mistake and I was waiting for one, so.I finally had something in my hand. It was only phone records but there texts between them was such a high volume,.it was enough to confront. My ws has never admitted to anything more than inappropriate texting, of course because that's all I've got. I know it was PA. There's no way he would be texting for so long and not act upon it.
So definitely trust your gut. It sounds.like you have enough proof but I know, you want something there's not a way for them to wiggle out of. I've told my ws before, if I walked in and saw you on top of her, you would tell me.I hallucinated.

Nature_Girl posted 4/30/2014 13:40 PM

Always trust your gut. Proof is just semantics. Sure, it's nice to have, but if your gut doesn't trust him, there's a reason.

Amen.

For some of us, the behaviors you've listed are enough.

Pentup posted 4/30/2014 13:43 PM

That is why I think the 180 is so important. When we enter the tsunami of shit called infidelity, we (I) want to fix it, figure it out, analyze it, figure out our spouse, blah blah blah

But the thing that was most important to me, was figuring out what my boundaries were. Not just the internal rules for how I would behave and treat others, but what rules did I have about how people could treat me? The book, "boundaries in Marriage" was very helpful to me. 180 and that book gave me time to focus on me. What were my lines in the sand?

Before that, if someone did something to someone I loved, I would be all over that, but me, I would let people take an emotional dump on me and I would be proud that it rolled off my back. But you know what, that shit stains when it is rolling off your back. It is hard to stand up tall and proud with shit stains on your back.

deena04 posted 4/30/2014 13:44 PM

Trust your gut! It may be the only thing telling you the truth!

Furious1 posted 4/30/2014 13:52 PM

Yes. On D-day, I had no "proof." I all I had was my suspicions and the knowledge that he was lying to me. I finally realized that what I had was more than enough for me.

When I confronted WH, I didn't beg for the truth or a confession. I simply told him that I wanted a divorce because I could not stand to be married to a man who looks me straight in the eye and lies to me each and every day. Of course, WH tried to play dumb. I didn't care. It changed nothing. I told him if he was really that stupid and didn't know what I was talking about, it was his loss. By the next day, he had amazingly grown a brain and knew exactly what I was talking about and was ready to confess some of it (trickle truth).

I later asked WH why he confessed. He told me that he lied to me because he was afraid that I would leave him if I knew the truth. Since I was leaving him for lying, he had nothing left to gain by it. Of course, getting the whole truth out of him was another battle altogether.

It took me a while to stop focusing on having to have proof. That was his game and his rule, not mine. I let him get in my head and convince me that I had to have proof. WRONG! All I needed was my own gut and confidence in myself that I was doing the right thing for myself. There was more than enough for me to feel justified in walking away. The lying, the crazy-making, the head games. There doesn't have to be penetration for betrayal to take place.

NeverAgain2013 posted 4/30/2014 14:02 PM

I'm a little confused because your profile signature says "multiple PAs." Is that supposition based on your gut feelings, or actual affairs he's had beside your current gut feelings that he's been up to no good for a long while?

In either event, you remind me of my girlfriend. She was married to a philanderer for almost 20 years and was CONSTANTLY finding women's numbers in his car or wallet, hearing about things from friends or acquaintences, seeing suspicious numbers showing up on the phone, finding all kinds of circumstantial evidence (his shirt rolled up in his truck for no reason at all, or finding an item that suddenly appeared out of nowhere that she knew he didn't buy), etc. etc. etc., seeing his car in a part of town where he had no reason to be, shutting down windows on the computer when she walked into the room, coming home hours later than promised and having weak, lame excuses for why he was late, and the list just goes on and on and on.

The signs of shady activity were constant and endless.

And YET, even though it was right in her face on an almost daily basis, she still chose to hold out for that smoking gun. He always managed to stay 2 steps ahead of her, and I saw what that eventually did to her. The poor girl was skinny because her nerves were constantly on end, her face was always hollow and exhausted looking with dark circles under her eyes because trying to monitor someone 24/7 day in and day out year after year was literally killing her.

Well, she never found that "smoking gun" but thank God, she finally had had enough and left him. I think it's because she just couldn't take it anymore and was at the end of her rope. But watching her slowly kill herself for 18 years was so horrific to watch.

The bottom line (in my opinion) is that where there's smoke, there's fire. You've found a ton of inappropriate crap that just makes him look like a desperate, drooling creeper to the women he's hitting on.

If his life is THAT miserable that he has to 'resort' to Skyping or phone sex with prideless skanks desperate enough to waste their time with married men, then he's pretty pitiful. Sounds as though he's got far too much damned time on his hands.

You just haven't found the smoking gun, is all. Someone this comfortable jacking off for any woman who'll give him 20 minutes of her time would jump all over any opportunity that fell in his lap. You just haven't caught him ... yet.

hurtyetstrong posted 4/30/2014 14:12 PM

Pentup, you are on a roll today!

Before that, if someone did something to someone I loved, I would be all over that, but me, I would let people take an emotional dump on me and I would be proud that it rolled off my back. But you know what, that shit stains when it is rolling off your back. It is hard to stand up tall and proud with shit stains on your back.

This is so me! My best friend knows basically everything and anytime I tell her something new she just tells me 'HYS, you are really nice. You are a very good person. Not many people would react as calmly and nicely as you have'

I've always said I'm a laid back person and it takes a lot to get to me, but the question is when did I confuse being laid back with becoming a door mat?

hurtyetstrong posted 4/30/2014 14:17 PM

I'm a little confused because your profile signature says "multiple PAs." Is that supposition based on your gut feelings, or actual affairs he's had beside your current gut feelings that he's been up to no good for a long while?

All based on my gut and tons of circumstantial evidence. Most importantly: a text he sent someone saying he enjoyed 'hitting it from the back', Facebook messages that reference sex he had with a woman - he said they messaged about meeting up but never did, and the most recent, Facebook messages about fun in Walmart parking lots.

All of these things addressed activity in the past-tense, not in the future tense, which would corroborate his claim that he's never acted upon it.

Pentup posted 4/30/2014 14:24 PM

I've always said I'm a laid back person and it takes a lot to get to me, but the question is when did I confuse being laid back with becoming a door mat?

EXACTLY! I considered myself a strong smart independent woman. I was the cool wife that other guys wish they had.

How did this become my life? Years of being worn down subtly my friend. It is the slow boiling frog syndrome. It slowly increases so you can tolerate it. Then you are dead.

TrustedHer posted 4/30/2014 15:05 PM

You have hard evidence of disrespect and EA's, apparently. This is on him.

Then your gut is telling you there are likely multiple PA's, but no proof. Your gut is probably right, but you want to doubt it.

What is your gut telling you about YOU?

Are you happy in your marriage?
Are you happy being treated like this?
Do you deserve better?
Can you get what you need from your H?
Are you really ok staying in a marriage full of EA's and phone sex, just because you can't PROVE a PA?

180 and NC are your friends. You can find the space to think about those questions, their answers, and how to get what you need, either with your H or without him.

norabird posted 4/30/2014 15:18 PM

Your gut should never be overridden. If you want more proof, you can ask him to take a lie detector test; but I'm the illicit activity is damning on it's own anyway. There does not need to be 'more' for it to still be 'too much'.

SBB posted 4/30/2014 15:28 PM

Yes.

He only confessed to DDOW the night he returned from 2 weeks at a professional development course in London. My gut was screaming at me for years but for some reason I knew this June was different because he would confess - he was in Luuurve.

I begged him for an hour "PLEASE - SET ME FREE! If you ever had any love for me set me free. Don't let me walk away from this M wondering if I'm crazy. I know you're lying." Repeated about a hundred times.

He was adamant - No - you're crazy. Laughing for a large part of it. Then: OK - I held her hand. It wasn't anything. Then: OK, I kissed her. It wasn't anything. Then: I slept in her bed, nothing happened. I was too drunk. Then: OMG - I slept with her, I'M SO SORRY!!! Boo who whoo, cue the falling to the ground crying.

I was already on the ground, crying - screaming, begging. Please set me free.

In False R I asked him what made him confess. He said he didn't know. I just wouldn't let up. He knew I knew and he thought he was in love.

He never did confess to any of the others. Flat out refused. Berated me for not trusting him.

But I knew.

After a 3m False R of "I'll do whatever it takes for as long as it takes" his actions were making my gut scream at me. I begged him to please give me full disclosure. He was adamant he had.

Then 20w after S this 40 y/o loser tells me he is ready to introduce his 24 y/o office gopher to my then almost 5 and 2 years olds as his GF. She was not DDOW.

I had commented for years about how strange she acted towards me - others too. Know I knew.

I understand where you are - I was there too. I reached a point where waiting for confirmation that would never come was killing me. I jumped well before I had the strength or courage to do so because I had to to save myself.

What he did to me pre-DD was enough grounds to walk away. DD just gave me the permission to do so. It also forced me to be unable to lie to myself any longer.

Those last 3w of False R I was like a walking zombie. His pretty words were like knives in my heart. I knew. I knew what I didn't want to know. I knew what he would not tell me. I knew.

whattheh posted 4/30/2014 17:02 PM

The illicit activity you describe would be forms of infidelity per my personal standards. How about you?

devasted30 posted 4/30/2014 17:39 PM

My gut never told me. I even received an anonymous letter in the mail, but I knew it was a hoax. My WS would NEVER betray me like that. He loved me too much. If your gut is telling you something, listen. I wish I had a gut like that. Mine never gave me a hint even after 7 years.

sadcountryboy posted 4/30/2014 18:08 PM

Before that, if someone did something to someone I loved, I would be all over that, but me, I would let people take an emotional dump on me and I would be proud that it rolled off my back. But you know what, that shit stains when it is rolling off your back. It is hard to stand up tall and proud with shit stains on your back.

This is absolutely beautiful. Truer words have never been spoken.

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