"You can survive this. Talk to others that have"

Ephimera posted 4/30/2014 22:50 PM

[This message edited by Ephimera at 4:26 PM, May 18th (Sunday)]

TrustedHer posted 4/30/2014 22:55 PM

Some people think that infidelity is only real if it is a PA (physical affair).

They're wrong. The infidelity is the betrayal. It's any inappropriate crossing of boundaries. It's any action that causes pain in your spouse that a reasonable person would be aware is painful. It's the disrespect for the person you pledged your life to.

Please read in the Healing Library. There's a link in the yellow box at the upper left of your screen.

I understand the book "Not Just Friends" addresses this. I haven't read it, but I've learned a lot on SI.

Be sure to take care of yourself. Drink water. Eat.

BreatheAgain10 posted 4/30/2014 22:55 PM

ABSO-FREAKIN-LUTELY! That is what is considered an emotional affair (EA). The Healing Library (in the menu box on the left) contains FAQ's and articles and helpful info that will answer so many questions for you both.
Welcome to the club you never wanted to join (as I have read so many other members say), but will be glad you did. We support you!

karmahappens posted 4/30/2014 22:56 PM

He had feelings for another woman.

Yes, he was unfaithful with his heart, at the very least.

Your hurt and pain are real and he has some work to do to figure out what is really going on with him.

You will get wonderful support here.

Welcome. (((Hugs)))

[This message edited by karmahappens at 10:59 PM, April 30th (Wednesday)]

Lovedyoumore posted 4/30/2014 23:05 PM

If he was having conversations with a woman that he would not want you to hear, he crossed the A boundary. If he talked about his personal life, your personal life, or your marriage, he crossed the A boundary. Professing love for another woman crosses the A boundary. Continuing to communicate with the other woman, crosses the A boundary.

Lovedyoumore posted 4/30/2014 23:06 PM

he said that it was a reaction to his feeling that I didn't love him anymore, and that even if he had a relationship, he thought I wouldn't care.

This excuse is Cheater 101. Not very imaginative.

Ephimera posted 4/30/2014 23:20 PM

[This message edited by Ephimera at 4:26 PM, May 18th (Sunday)]

SBB posted 4/30/2014 23:32 PM

If she had reciprocated it would have been a physical affair. No doubt about it.

The fact that he isn't horrified by how far on that slippery slope he went down tells me he sees nothing wrong with it.

The sad clown used this fucked up thinking to give himself permission to have EAs/PAs for years.

He had lunch with DDOW, noticed she flirted back, felt chemistry. He thought that was OK.

Went for a romantic walk and held her hand. He thought that was OK.

Went back to her place and gave her a back massage under her dress and kissed her. He thought that was OK.

He had sex with her - Oh shit - I just cheated.

But he kept his wedding ring on because taking it off 'felt wrong' (actual quote from him).

Do you see this slippery slope?

When do you think he cheated? When he saw the slippery slope? When he continued on it? When she reciprocated? Or when they fucked?

He knew before the lunch that he was attracted to her and she was attracted to him. That was when this affair started. It wasn't the first one so he wasn't at all scared of sliding down that slippery slope. He 'knew' he wouldn't go 'too far'.

A good man can't be stolen. A good man would have noticed the interest and checked himself immediately. Distanced himself. Told me about it. Horrified that someone who knew he was married would behave in this way towards him.

I did not have a good man. IMO you don't either.

What happens when the next one reciprocates?

A failed attempt at cheating is not better than a successful one. Just as an EA is not better than a PA.

The only difference is STDs. Cheating is cheating.

Breezy150 posted 4/30/2014 23:35 PM

Please remember that nothing about the A is your fault. Don't let him turn any of that decision back on you. Cheaters cheat because they are broken, no other reason. They are self absorbed broken people.

Ephimera posted 4/30/2014 23:55 PM

[This message edited by Ephimera at 4:27 PM, May 18th (Sunday)]

SBB posted 5/1/2014 11:11 AM

And I know people can make mistakes.

I agree with you but I disagree that this was a mistake. This was a choice and one he made repeatedly.

The only thing that stopped this becoming an affair is her lack of interest. What happens if the next mistake/choice he makes reciprocates? He doesn't think making moves equals cheating - they all tell themselves that until they're having sex.

I have to ask are you certain he isn't lying to you about it not becoming physical?

The sad clown told me that during our first S he had taken his office gopher out to lunch and told her he was attracted to her (he was 40, she 23 - he's the CFO and she's had been an office junior in his team for 4+ years). He told me she rebuffed him but escorted him to his hotel while he dropped his work stuff off before they went out to drinks. I believed him.

We had a 3m False R then 20w after S he told me he was ready to introduce this child whore to my then almost 5 and 2 year olds as his GF. She now lives with them.

I now know he was lying to my face - gave me half truth to assuage his guilt and to feign transparency. It was likely an LTA for the entire time they've known each other. Absolutely EA - PA later.

This is not at all uncommon. His complete denial that this was a repeated attempt at an affair concerns me. As does the fact that his story is not completely believable.

simplydevastated posted 5/1/2014 12:28 PM

Some people think that infidelity is only real if it is a PA (physical affair).

^^^This!

Ephimera, do an online search for different types of infidelity and show it to your husband. Some articles are better than other, as usual, but it may open his eyes to what infidelity is and where/when it can happen.

Ephimera posted 5/1/2014 16:30 PM

[This message edited by Ephimera at 4:27 PM, May 18th (Sunday)]

Hope2B posted 5/1/2014 16:48 PM

Yes, it's infidelity. Plain and simple. If he had to hide it from you, that means he knew there was something unacceptable he was doing. If the OW had reciprocated, he would have most likely taken the next step toward a physical affair.

He said that he just wanted to feel the emotion of love and the OW as a person did not matter.

This is bullshit. He is lying to you. Of course the OW as a person DID matter! As for feeling the emotion of love, well, that emotional connection changes one way or another.

I believe that as love grows and develops in a marriage, you lose that first emotional-high time of "falling in love, being in love" feeling, where your every breath and heartbeat is tied up with the other person. Love becomes more quiet, mature and enduring. Your hearts may still beat as one, you are a part of one another, but it's not at the intensity level of when you first got together. It's impossible to sustain that beginning level for any length of time without burnout.

Life happens to help bank the flames that you first felt with such intensity, and for an enduring love, the "I'm so in to you. I'm so HOT for you! Must. Have. You. Now." takes more of a back seat because you connect on a deeper and more mature level.

But I continue to wonder if I'm holding him back from his real love, and if he won't be happier with her. And I love him so much that all I want is for him to be happy.

Sadly, all I can say is that if you really and truly feel this way, it would be best to let him go. However, I would first encourage both of you go to counseling--individual as well as marriage counseling, before you make any such decision.

[This message edited by Hope2B at 4:51 PM, May 1st (Thursday)]

SBB posted 5/1/2014 17:05 PM

But I'm also certain that if she had reciprocated and they were getting into a relationship, my husband would have told me.

Gently, just like he told you that he was aggressively courting another woman?

No.

You are now minimising - I too told myself I was making a big deal out of nothing. So I waited until he fucked someone else - actually, I waited until he confessed.

No one here is saying you need to divorce him because of this - we are warning you that unless you/he address this and NOT try to sweep it under the carpet (it's called rugsweeping and most of us do it) that you'll be back here with another DD and exposed to STDs.

This is a pretty extreme courting - to keep going rejection after rejection? Does it not make you wonder if he's tried this before?

Have you checked his phone records?

I repeat - this was not a mistake, it was a choice.

This was a betrayal - he was actively pursuing another woman. He told her he loved her. He only confessed because you found out and confronted.

Ephimera posted 5/1/2014 17:22 PM

[This message edited by Ephimera at 4:27 PM, May 18th (Sunday)]