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I just had 'the interrogation'.

Last August I found out about a 'flirting affair' that went on for most of 2013, and according to him, never got physical, although it probably would have if the opportunity was there and he admits that.

Today I had confirmation of an affair that went beyond flirting (involved kissing and experimental phone sex) and lasted for about 10 months in 2011.

I don't know what to think. I guess this is TT. He claims that's really all this time, there's no more to tell.

Sigh. Back to the drawing board. Does this mean I'm in for some extra months of trauma as I try to process this new discovery?

I don't know how much more I can take. I need counselling, we need counselling. There isn't any around here. We're planning to move in June/July 2015 to somewhere we could access counselling, but is that too long to wait? Will I go nuts before then? Will our marriage be irreparable by then?

Should I call a crisis meeting and decide to move now for the sake of emergency marriage intervention?

Holy shit. Kicked in the guts again. Only a bit more numb this time. Numb and sad all at once.

No advice, but I'm sorry you are getting trickle truth.

So he basically has been having an EA with this OW since 2011..after he led you to believe it was "just" flirting? (Married men with good boundaries don't flirt with women who aren't their wives..no such thing as "just" flirting.)

If he kissed her, then hen had an EA/PA.

Honey, he has been lying to you for a very long time. He has been hiding this from you for years. The chances that you now "know everything" is absurd and insulting to YOU.

He is an adult..OW is an adult. They acted as adults do when they think they are in luuuurve. They had sex.

You need to be tested for STD's...and insist he do the same. No sex until you SEE the results.

I would consider this another dday.

Im so very sorry.

You don't have to go to MC to save the marriage. But your WH has a shit ton of things HE needs to do if he wants to save it.

What is he doing to show you he wants to R? Is he transparent? Do you know where he is at all times? Did he NC OW? Are you sure? Does OW's husband know about the affair? Is WH answering all of your questions without blame and anger? Is he remorseful(not regretful)?

What is he DOING?

Branca, I am so sorry you have had to hear new revelations. Honestly, I don't think he is telling you the entire truth, he is mimimizing.

I suggest he take a polygraph. IMO he is still feeding you bullsh*t.

He isn't being honest with you. IMO he won't until he see some consequences for his actions. Go see a lawyer and see what your options are.

I am sorry that you find yourself in this situation.

Man oh man, how many times did I hear, "that's it, you know it all now" TT is so hard to accept but seems to be the norm with most WS. What does your gut tell you? It's the hardest thing to hear and very difficult for the WS to tell you. They do it for many reasons. To protect you, to protect themselves. They don't understand that to discover the lies later is soooooo muchhhhhh worse. Be prepared because you have probably just scratched the surface and there is more to come. It's amazing how they can lie. Swear on their children's lives etc just to save themselves because they don't want to cause you any more pain. But in the end, they hurt you way, way more. Better to rip the bandaid off all at once, but they never do.
How many DDays are you prepared for? Prepare for more because if we are wrong and you really do have it all, great, but if not at least you had an idea of what was coming. Good luck.

I just wanted to suggest contacting counsellors in your region (such as the nearest city) and seeing if they do telephone or video conference counselling. Many practitioners will now hold sessions via telephone, skype, etc. It may not be ideal, but may allow you to feel like you are making headway in the meantime, especially when it comes to IC (for both of you if possible, but you can only control and choose your own actions).

Also have to echo the lawyer sentiment. Go, knowledge is power in this situation.

So he basically has been having an EA with this OW since 2011..after he led you to believe it was "just" flirting? (Married men with good boundaries don't flirt with women who aren't their wives..no such thing as "just" flirting.)

No, 2 OW. First in 2011, a woman who he started out friends with but crossed the line and then did nothing to discourage her. He says he realised it was wrong and told himself never to be alone with her but thought he could continue 'being friends' and never told her anything to stop her sending messages to him. I think it ended when we moved to another country.

Second OW was a former girlfriend of his who he started flirting with on FB. Said he never got the opportunity to have sex or other physical stuff although admitted it is highly likely he would have if he had the chance.

What is he doing to show you he wants to R? Is he transparent? Do you know where he is at all times? Did he NC OW? Are you sure? Does OW's husband know about the affair? Is WH answering all of your questions without blame and anger? Is he remorseful(not regretful)?

What is he DOING?

Well. Since D-day #1, he gave me his computer passwords and deleted OW#1 and #2 from FB (even though I didn't know about OW#1 yet). He also deleted a few other girls who he felt he might be at risk of flirting with. He is open about where he is and doesn't seem to be hiding anything current, but he still has a bad habit of going out without telling me all his plans, so when he takes longer to come home I end up calling him to find out where he is. My gut is telling me this is not a problem.

But what is a problem is that when I discovered the 2013 OW, I asked for full truth and disclosure, and I didn't get it. He says he was afraid to disappoint me again.

He has been making an effort to be supportive of my grieving process but not very proactive in trying to work on the marriage.

He's not all that remorseful, although he feels sorry for the hurt he's caused. He has tried to explain to me that in his mind, cheating is when you actually have sex with someone else, so other things that are part of the lead up to sex (flirting, kissing etc) are 'on the road to cheating' but not actually cheating. He admits that he stepped outside his marriage and was unfaithful, and that he knew it was wrong, but finds it hard to label it cheating. He realises that this view of cheating is in conflict with most other people's, but he says that's just how he feels. He didn't know what an EA was and I had to show it to him in a dictionary.

OW#1, well I don't think she's married but has had boyfriends on and off during the A. Frankly I don't care whether any of them knew.

OW#2, she has a long term partner who is the father of her child. I think she also has a history of cheating on him and he basically keeps her a semi-prisoner in her home, socially isolated. My WH initially felt sorry for her. I have wondered if I should tell the OW's partner.

There is no such thing as polygraph around here; if there was, I'd like to do it. I live in a remote area.

WH really loves his children and I believe he loves me. He is devastated that I don't like kissing him or hugging him. I have felt numb towards him for quite some time.

We did have issues in our marriage, I acknowledge that. He felt lonely and isolated at times. Doesn't excuse seeking fun outside of our marriage. I always was and still am willing to work on the marriage. I had young children and I was slogging my guts out to try to achieve the dream we had together - to move to a different country (his country of birth). I made it happen, but while I was doing that, he was feeling all neglected and getting his kicks somewhere else. I guess you all know how this feels.

As I mentioned we currently have a plan to move back to my country of birth (this is because the schooling here is terrible and we realise we want better for the kids).

But the plan is to move in June/July 2015. Now I'm thinking I might have to go sooner. I need to be somewhere I have some support, and access to counseling.

It won't be easy to sort things out (and I may have to make some financial sacrifices to leave sooner) but I feel I need to give him a strong message about how big a deal this is for me. I think he knows its a big deal already but I haven't told him I've had thoughts of just leaving him.

The main thing keeping me here is my commitment to marriage through thick and thin, and also of course our two children, who love their father dearly and it breaks my heart to think of their devastation.

Right now, how I'm feeling, if it weren't for the kids, I would be quite ok with leaving him. Even though, when I think about him rationally (putting aside the betrayal) he has many good qualities as a husband and father and may well be willing to be a faithful husband in the future. We might even be able to have a 'great marriage' as some do after infidelity. But that complete, total trust I had in him for the first 12 years of our marriage, will likely never be there again.

I'm so sorry. Trying to ind a counselor to work with you by phone sounds like a very good idea. Has he done any reading, for instance "Not Just Friends" by Shirley Glass? You say he doesn't really seem to be remorseful, so of course your trust is gone. He needs to start doing some work on figuring out why he crossed these boundaries and how to keep from doing it. Starting with some reading is a good place. If he refuses to do even that, you may need to think about what consequences you want to impose for his refusal to do what you need to be safe.

Thanks everyone. Norabird, I think I will ask him to do some reading. I will be very surprised if he refuses, but let's see. Actions will speak louder than words.