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Just curious. Is there anyone ELSE out there that has been through hell and back in the courts for a gazilion dollars and have to live with never getting that 1:1 confrontation with the X over ALL the horrific things they have done? As I'm sure many of you are/were..the unsuspecting wife/spouse. X springs into full affair. Destroys the family with two little ones. Because he is NPD, and of course entitled, drags us through psych, GAL, ridiculous court expenses nearing $100,000--pretty much financially ruined, does dispicable and lewd acts that could have gotten him fired (but my attorney advised me not to share because then I'd get nothing of child support if he were fired). He goes on to live in his shameless life. I feel like I want a confrontation. One. last. Time. I never did have the hissy fit or throw anything at him in words or plates! I'm struggling to move on and living the regret of not having my "say" or moment with dispicable him is really killing me. He is coming upon his 2nd wedding with Wife #4 this month and is living a charmed life. Wedding one was 2 weeks after the divorce so the whore would be able to sleep in the same room/house. Romantic huh? Anyway, I guess what I'm asking is...has anyone else had to squash all of their dispicable points ? and if so, HOW did you do it???

A few books I've read talk about getting closure in these situations--both The Breakup Bible by Rachel Sussman and Getting Past Your Breakup by Susan Elliott do.

It's not easy but at a certain point the letting go is for you, so the feelings don't hold you back.

As for his life....wife 4? His life is not working out just fine. What you can see on the outside is not the reality.

When I needed to "say something" to someone…I would do a couple of things. One, I would open a word document and just start typing. It felt good to get it out. Or, I found it very therapeutic to write on a canvas. I bought a small square canvas at a craft store and wrote on it everything I was feeling…then I painted over the words, kinda like sealing them in.

Or, I envision my feelings like a balloon and holding it in my hand by a string…then letting the ballon go. Maybe you could write what you need and place it in a ballon to let to, or burn them. Something symbolic.

In did help me.

There is no point in telling him what you want to say, he doesn't care. It won't change anything and will just fall on deaf ears. Best thing you can do is get it out some other way.

((Fly)))

Me. I had no closure. I did not get to say what I wanted to say. Never got a confession or acknowledgment from him. I've been to hell & back and again. The things I've discovered still blow my mind.

I've had to make peace with the lack of closure. I will not give him the power of affecting my healing or growth. I will not give him the power of affecting my future. I've had hundreds of hours of counseling over this, and credit that with getting me to where I am today. I've got my faith, I've got this group here, I've read wonderful books.

No closure here either. It's been 20 years since the first time. He still think he's done nothing wrong. He even replaced my picture in his wallet with another woman from work. Never even said he cheated, even though I have tons of evidence. He says I'm telling lies to people who ask why we divorced. He wants me to speak glowing words about him and say it was mutual.

I've made peace with the fact I'll never get an apology or acknowledgement but now he's threatening to sue me because he wants me to talk nicer about him to people.

I've been so over it for years, living a very happy calm cheater-free life. But it takes a lot of work to get to this point.

If you feel that strongly I would write a letter get all the stuff you want to say out and then burn it. FOR YOU.

Plus having your ex or OW/OM take up any space in your head and even more of your life is really ridiculous.
They are not worth it and you are taking poison no one is giving you anymore but yourself.

They cheated the AP went after a married person are these the type of people to understand the damage of what they have done? Of course not.

Accept or don't accept what was done but shelve the belief there will be a day. Your life is about integrity and values. Work towards your goals.

(Yes still have moments of feeling like it totally sucks is normal but keep going forward and don't give up anymore of your soul to these type people)

I think closure with a remorseless WS is an illusion.

Any conversation you can imagine will be wrong. Even if you make it entirely one-sided, your imagination will say one thing, but the interruptions, body language, and eye-rolling of the WS will derail you, or distract you.

If the WS were the kind of person to hear and understand that, they'd not have done what they did, to the extent that they did.

The only real closure comes from accepting that they are who they are, and you are who you are, and you are going on to live your life -- without them. Without their approval, without you correcting them, without you educating them, without you seriously considering them.

This is most difficult with the true NPD's, of course, since they keep turning up like bad pennies. In my case, I can avoid dealing with my X, mostly, except being forced to see her since we're close neighbors.

I found it helpful to write all this in a journal. It seems to get me to the point where I can let it go.

I believe that 'closure' has nothing to do with the other person. Talking to them or having a confrontation is not 'closure'.

Closure is mentally turning the page on that chapter of your life and saying goodbye. It is continuing your story on a fresh blank sheet of paper.

So many faces in and out of my life
Some will last
Some will just be now and then
Life is a series of hellos and goodbyes
I'm afraid it's time for goodbye again
Say goodbye to Hollywood
Say goodbye my baby
Say goobye to Hollywood
Say goodbye my baby
- "Say Goodbye to Hollywood" Billy Joel

I blasted STBX a few times when he attacked, but no I never actually "got off my chest" everything I wanted to have closure on.
I think most of us don't and the ones that did are the exception.
It's called 180 and NC. The closure is knowing you are free and he is and always will be an idiot.
I have imaginary conversations where I get stuff out with STBX, but honestly, when given the opportunity I have nothing to say to him because he is a POS and talking to him is like talking to a brick wall. He would shut down and refuse to listen or further frustrate me by twisting everything and not accepting responsibility for his actions. It would be an act in futility.
Post here, like others have said. We understand, we listen, we got your back, and we can hate him for you too!

Yes I'm going through a very expensive divorce with someone who has the behavioral traits of OCD, bipolar I, and BPD. All of it doesn't matter what the mental issues are, the reality is I have to get through this and move on. The emotional healing is a roller coaster and like many on this wonderful supportive site, I learned to go through it, give myself TLC , and left to wonder what the trauma impacts will be on my journey.
In the marriage, the severe emotional abuse and being hit also, was beyond bizarre. The punishment never fit the supposed crime. There is no reasoning with her then and no reasoning now legally. Worst period of my life. Closure? Wow, what's that? She lies, is with het AP and will be married as soon as this is over. I really tried, but it was just way too much and I was a punching bag. It bothers me that her efforts were minimal. But that is life. Keep posting because at some point the financial bleeding must stop. We might end up losing too much for this .....

No closure here either. He left for the OW on DDay and NEVER spoke to me again outside of necessary discussions about the kids/finances. The lack of closure has been *the* hardest part of all of it. But I will never get closure from him. Because he is not capable of it. So through lots and lots of therapy I am trying to make my own closure. It has been a rough, bumpy road though.

I never unburdened myself to ex-shat. Never ranted at him, never railed. My divorce wasn't expensive...it cost roughly what our honeymoon cost...seemed appropriate to me. But now we have legal stuff dragging on which is irritating.

While I was waiting for the settlement to come through, I wrote in an old journal of his that I found in the garage. He has entries in there of when he first met me, how much he loved me, all these wonderful things about us and our future together. I started writing in the back of this journal and wrote several entries getting everything off my chest that I couldn't say out loud. I was going to give him that journal once the D was final. That was going to be my closure. But when the D was finalized, I looked at that journal and threw it in a box where I keep all my old journals. That's my closure not his. He doesn't get a window into ANY of my emotions...not the angry ones, not the sad ones, certainly not the happy and content ones. Fuck him. If I need to rant, I have people who actually give a shit about me and want to listen to me who don't mind me getting something off my chest. But him...bleh. What a waste.

I have moved on without giving him a piece of my mind because he doesn't deserve any piece of me.

Closure is for my inner self. I think I've gotten there...if not, I'm closer than I've ever been since D-day.

Thank you all for your feedback. Really really stuck on it. So stuck that I was wildly fantasizing about creating the closure. IN real life. Asking if he'd meet with me ...perhaps in my therapists office? I'd have a bullet point list and share. I was thinking ...no matter his reaction. I don't expect apologies or ownership but just to be able to say...I KNOW WHO YOU ARE TO HIM!! *sigh* He has asked me countless times to go to c0-parenting counseling and I've put the kibash on that. No way. He can't co-parent because he lacks simple basic boundaries/respect for me as the children's mother. ANyway, I'm droning on here. I feel like I'm more stuck than I SHOULD be at this point. Really, he does live the charmed life and I'm way way just a mere insect that comes around and he'll take a swat at me every once in a while (via email). I bite back though at times ..appropriately (I think). I really do want him to know I KNOW who HE is. Alright...back the usual for now. It certainly is a process huh? I just need to not care...and that is the HArdest part about this.

-FLy

((((FlySomeday))))

It's so hard. But if he had that bullet point list, would it penetrate and sink in for him? No, he's not capable of that. It is hard to accept that you can't get 'justice' in that way, that you can't make him collapse under the weight of his asshatery. But his reaction to your list would not acknowledge its validity and that would only anger you more, continuing the cycle.

I have gotten apologies from my ex and he seems to realize that he behaved really reprehensibly...but it still doesn't quite stop my own narrative of wanting to keep saying 'yes, but, what about (xyz)'. As long as you keep engaging mentally and letting yourself obsess there's no one thing he could do to end that cycle. You have to be the one to decide to let it go.

It may take him doing something really stupid for you to get to a point of closure.

Mine was at Christmas when STBXH told me that he forgave me. I mean ??? His 'forgiveness' didn't come with an apology for all that he had done,for the hurt he has caused the children and I and for his continued contact with Fat Bottomed Girl etc. No. His forgiveness was all about him and how I had offended him. There was no thought of anyone else.

He saw it as a massive step forward for him because he once told me that he'd never forgiven me for anything, ever. In a way it was. At first I saw it that way too. It took me a few weeks, but that incident made me finally realise that he just wasn't capable and that looking for closure with him, the way he is now, is just not going to happen

And actually,that realisation gave me a different kind of closure and then I felt able to file.

[This message edited by Softcentre at 3:58 PM, May 4th, 2014 (Sunday)]

I believe that 'closure' has nothing to do with the other person. Talking to them or having a confrontation is not 'closure'.
Closure is mentally turning the page on that chapter of your life and saying goodbye. It is continuing your story on a fresh blank sheet of paper.

This really hits the mark with me.

Fly - I understand that desire to stand in front of him and scream "I SEE WHAT YOU REALLY ARE!" It's a tough step to work through and move past, but you can do it.

Can you think about it this way - your thoughts are energy you are investing in him. They are ego kibbles you are buying for him, even if you aren't feeding them to him.

When your thoughts turn to him and the need for closure, snap the figurative rubber band around your wrist and turn your focus toward something worthwhile - yourself. Be ruthless with monitoring your thoughts, and it won't be long before you find you no longer need to be. (((((fly)))))

i didnt get closure. but I also didnt get a committed husband so I was forced to leave the marriage. I walked away still loving the good parts and mourning that loss. 5 yrs later, I still miss bits. we share kids so the thoughts come up. I am just getting closure now because he has appologized and starting to get it.
But I think i healed/let go about 2 yrs ago from him.

He doesn't get a window into ANY of my emotions...not the angry ones, not the sad ones, certainly not the happy and content ones. Fuck him

Thank you for this! Especially the last sentence.

Oct. will be 4 years since I left. I still have conversations with NPD XWS in my head, but really wish I could stop! Will put a post it of the above to help.

I tried in the beginning to talk with him, but thanks to folks here and my counselor, finally realized that was futile. He will never get it, or be available to provide closure. Even if he tried, I no longer believe a word out of his mouth, so again.... futile.

It sucks, but so much of this does. I try to stay grateful that at least I escaped. Most days, that is enough. You would not want to be a fly on the wall the days it isn't!

May we each continue to find peace! And continue to appreciate the peace of being free from them!

I don't think I would ever get closure if I sought it through a conversation with the sad clown.

Gaslighting, rugsweeping, blameshifting - absolutely. Closure, no.

Me giving it to him both barrels does nothing but give him a part of me and with it some of my power. I let my actions do the talking. I've walked away and I'll never look back. The door isn't even just boarded up - it is completely gone.

It is normal to want to have your say - one day you realise they are deaf and dumb by choice. We are talking Swahili at them - they have NFI what we're talking about but they're still absolutely certain it is all our fault.

Seek closure within yourself - that's where true closure lies. I've stopped trying to work out his why's and how's and I'm focussing on why/how I ended up with and stayed with a guy like that.

I can reeeaaallllly relate to this thread.

My sleep is still disturned by the fanstasies of getting closure and seeing the 'aha' moment in her eyes. But I also know it will never happen.

IN the early days I tried to convince her what she was doing was wrong and foolish but she couldn't see it.

Now she CAN'T let herself see it.

I'm still working on getting used to the fact I will never see it. I just want to shake the stupid out of her.

[This message edited by allatsea at 4:25 AM, May 19th (Monday)]