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He still can't be trusted

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refuz2bavictim posted 5/10/2014 10:33 AM

I still can't trust him and I dislike him immensely right now. That is all. He wins the good medal for justification.

refuz2bavictim posted 5/10/2014 10:39 AM

That was supposed to read gold medal, but since I'm on my iPhone and have locked myself in my room, I don't have the energy to fix it.

[This message edited by refuz2bavictim at 10:39 AM, May 10th (Saturday)]

jo2love posted 5/10/2014 20:10 PM


I'm sorry. Let it all out. We are here for you. Sending you strength and hope.

authenticnow posted 5/10/2014 22:06 PM


I'm so sorry.

feelingdrained posted 5/10/2014 22:36 PM

I'm sorry. I hope you are ok.

heartbrokeninaz posted 5/10/2014 23:46 PM

I am confused. Are you still together? Hugs

PollyA posted 5/11/2014 00:38 AM

I've locked myself in my room. I suggest you take your laptop computer and binge watch shows. comedies are good! House of Cards. Eventually I calm down.

refuz2bavictim posted 5/11/2014 03:06 AM

Thanks to each of you for your support. It is deeply appreciated.

I'll give more details as to what happened. I was too angry and exhausted to write much at the time.

We are still together, in fact I am in a foreign country where I still fumble through the language. I did come out of my room, but we had to cancel plans we had for a nice dinner with another couple. I had him tell them that I "wasn't feeling well". Which is true I suppose

He still struggles to be honest and maintain prior agreements we have made.

These are clear and concise agreements. No porn, no porn substitutes, no masturbation. Simple. These aren't fuzzy agreements with exceptions. There are none.

He is honest when I ask him about his activities. The problem is that I HAVE to ask. And I have to ask the right question.

I asked.

He then proceeded to do something I have not seen since the early days of finding out about his A's. He tried to justify, his actions. There was that familiar tone of voice, look in the eye, and sheepish body language followed by his reasons....He told me not to be so angry, (when I'm angry I am very direct, without yelling or crying) and wanted to know if maybe I wasn't being "unreasonable" ? Unreasonable?

Unreasonable to expect that he follow through on decisions and honor his word? No. I feel confident that my expectations are reasonable. Nice try though..., I mean if you can't win the argument on the basis of your own illogical reasoning, try to make the other party doubt theirs.

After all he wasn't getting enough sex, (apparently he keeps score) and because I recently started a new job, (I have been stressed and exhausted, working 50 hour weeks to get started, I leave at 6am and return at 7pm) and he was "doing me a favor" by not asking me to have sex. Yep, you read that correctly....a favor. He wasn't pressuring me because he knows how stressful it is to start a new job in a new country, and that it takes some time to settle in. I am not an unwilling partner, and this time of transition will pass. Impatience combined with selfishness is clearly a problem.

This guy that I just described, isn't particularly attractive right now. If you want to jack up your sex life, keep on with the impatience, selfishness and general wishy washy decision making. I find loyalty, decisiveness and unwavering focus on what matters most, sexy.

As a favor he took care of himself. He simply changed the agreement on his end, made a unilateral decision, and kept control of the flow of information. On top of that he tried to convince me that this was the more sensible option, and that I should see it differently.

All I see is another broken agreement. I do not deserve this. Period. Neither do my children, and neither does he. Keeping his word, is a serious problem. When he decides he wants something, he will break his word to me, to get it, and jeopardize everything that I have worked to repair in myself, let alone the work he has done.

I was of course livid...Almost 5 years out, SO much work, and he can go into justification mode, omission, and subtle gaslighting, in the blink of an eye.

Every time he makes choices that hurt me, I must work again to repair myself. He's putting an awful lot on my shoulders I believe.

Since I originally posted, he has changed his tune, and is sorry, he wants another chance, and wants to do better.

It's now Mother's day in this time zone. So I am putting on a happy face, and spending the day with my kids and him. We have had the usual conversations where he accepts responsibility (in word) and he is being helpful etc.....BTDT.

This really doesn't need to be this difficult. Why on Earth does he continue to make it so.

But now I wonder, if the tunes he sings, are just lullabies he switches on and off, to sooth me into some kind of foggy slumber, where he can go on doing as he pleases without regard for how this affects anyone else.

[This message edited by refuz2bavictim at 3:50 AM, May 11th (Sunday)]

Branca posted 5/11/2014 10:00 AM

Oh gosh. ((hugs)) to you.

It doesn't feel right, does it?

refuz2bavictim posted 5/17/2014 04:09 AM

I am not feeling very interested in him right now. He said it's because I am punishing him. I find it disturbing that he thinks my disinterest is punishment vs. an authentic reaction. I am not interested in being another tool for providing him "relief". Continually breaking agreements and getting 3rd 4th and 10th chances, eventually wears a person down.


How is this all about him? My reactions are about me and self protection, since I know I can't trust his actions, reactions or words.

Actually I am wrong in my title thread.
I can trust him.

I can trust him to break agreements, twist the image, and put his head in the sand, in order to place his needs, wants and desires above his relationships with other human beings.

devasted30 posted 5/17/2014 07:09 AM

Men really are from Mars, aren't they? Either that or they really are the dumbest animals in the world!!!!

Aubrie posted 5/17/2014 07:42 AM

Men really are from Mars, aren't they? Either that or they really are the dumbest animals in the world!!!!
Nope. Has nothing to do with men. I married one and he's pretty flipping awesome. It's foggy, unremorseful waywards that are the issue.

refuz2bavictim, I'm sorry you're hurting. I'm sorry he isn't attentive to your needs.

confused615 posted 5/17/2014 09:24 AM

Im so sorry. That he feels you are punishing him has to really piss you off. That makes your pain..your anger..your feelings allll about HIM. Not *because* of him..but *about* him..kwim? It's more selfishness, pity party bullshit.

What is he saying? What is he doing to make you feel safe? Anything?


refuz2bavictim posted 5/18/2014 11:47 AM

Thanks Aubrie
That's a good question. One I was going to answer yesterday, and realized as I went to type the answers, that the things he does to make me feel safe, aren't doing the job.

We had a conversation after I posted this. He switched his talk back to the words and thoughts that *I* would find acceptable.

He is attentive. He does extra things to help me. He is still transparent in the use of technology. But these aren't the core issues. He still protects a seed of secrecy.

After he has a "slip" he leaves the doors open when he goes into a room, leaves his phone around and continues the general acts of transparency. Ultimately though, he slips, because he gets comfortable when things are going well. The reality is, that he believes he can have both. In some way I think that he believes he can do all the *right* things and still maintain some small seed of his secret lust for porn. IT's not as bad as his affair...and he's thinking about us. And well, for me, that won't be acceptable. Because at the base..this is about sticking to your word. He willingly made an agreement. He is free to do as he wants...I am not giving him an ultimatum. I am just giving him the parameters under which I choose to operate in this Post A marriage. He CAN have porn and will simply be without me. I get a choice in this. So does he.

He told me that he didn't want to be without me. He said that he didn't think I wanted that either. While that may be true, I know that I can be without him. I think he underestimates my ability to be ok alone.

He assumes I am like him. I'm not. I like to be alone. I am ok with it in a way he is not. Ironically this ability all stems from the work I have done post A, and at the same time magnifies the complacency with his own work.

I have grown past him maybe. I don't know if this is a situation where he has taken two steps back or if he has simply faked the growth, and done the bare minimum to stay with me. I'm not sure he wants me to be my best me, when with him, the way I want him to be the best him.

What do I do with that?

Now he seems to be walking on eggshells. Trying so hard...but commitment isn't the same as "trying" in my experience.

NoMorDeceit posted 5/18/2014 13:31 PM

Now he seems to be walking on eggshells. Trying so hard...but commitment isn't the same as "trying" in my experience.

When I get the strength I'm going to post about my H's "slip-up" after 5 years(we are back in hell this weekend)of what I believed was him doing the work. Not trying. Doing. Fixed. Keeping one's word. Not doing selfish things that hurt the people he claims to love. I was over it. Moved on. Trusted. Vulnerable.

My H has been the model remoreseful/repentant former wayward for 5 years. I mean like busting his ass to fix this. Doing all the right stuff. Until the moment he didn't. My H also when confronted (asked) immediately defaulted to a familiar reaction/response...deny, justfy, gaslight, blameshift, lie. Did I mention justify and twist it all up in knots so it ends up being he did it well for my benefit??? AYFKM? I feel like I'm in the twilight zone.

My H also broke an agreement and a boundary. This was cast in stone, no misunderstanding it. He has had iron clad boundaries and done everything right until the moment he chose not too. Selfishness. He just wanted too. WTF do you do with this?

I would imagine you feel much like I WTF have we been doing all these years? Have you been faking all this work? Just waiting for me to let down my guard?

I'm sorry. I wish you strength. Today I'm not sure what I wish for them.

SI Staff posted 5/18/2014 14:40 PM


Please speak of your own situation and do not generalize about all men. It's insulting and against the guidelines of the site.

GENERAL STATEMENTS: Please refrain from making statements that generalize gender, WS/OP/BS, race, religion or political alignment. Also do not presume to speak on behalf of other people.

Thank you.

refuz2bavictim posted 5/18/2014 23:26 PM

You pretty much describe how I feel about this.

It's a bizarre situation after we do so much work, as a couple, as individuals to heal ourselves, to discover how easily it can unravel.

I think my FWH thought he was doing work, when in reality he was ignoring the core work and putting out the little fires instead.

Sorry that you are hurting too. I'd like to hear your story when you feel up to telling.

blakesteele posted 5/19/2014 00:22 AM


Hadn't seen you in a while.....sorry to read this post.

It appears some WS's white knuckle abandoning their wayward ways....and they fall again.

I have no stomach for wayward-like modes of operation. Adultery was not a deal breaker for me.....but the various ways of doing relationships that enabled adultery to be a choice will be.

I see you are getting to a spot where you know you will be okay without your husband. You understand that your family will actually be more safe, more able to grow without a member that chooses one of the 4 deadly A's......addiction, adultery, abuse or abandonment.

It seems so easy to many BS.....what a WS must do to put and keep an "f" in front if that spouse. But for some, the draw to wayward lifestyle is apparently to intoxicating to give up.

Having read tens of books on adultery and infidelity, it is plain to see what true repentence and repair looks's not rocket science. What it is is a persons desire to break some very selfish ways.

Even with a very straight forward guide such as the Hiw To Help Your Spouse Heal From Your Affair booklet, the steps are not palatable for some.

Defensiveness. My wife occasionally still reaches for that when I outwardly struggle with the pain her A causes me. It is rare, but when it does happen it is exponentially painful.

22 months out.

I pray each day that my M is restored and that my wife continues to find her way past the various modes of operation that limited our bonding and enabled adultery to be chosen by her.

I equally pray that I continue to find the courage to tend to MY brokenness....that I find ways to improve my ability to bond to my wife in healthy, interdependent ways.

I have added you to my SI specific prayer list, along with your husband. I am do sorry for the pain he continues to inflict on you. I also know that what he is doing is self destructive. Sin is always selfish. Sin is nothing but destructive.


blakesteele posted 5/19/2014 00:28 AM

((( NoMorDeceit)))

I am sorry for your recent additional pain. It appears to be among the worst nightmares of a go through this trial of trials only to be hurt again.

I don't know the details, don't need to. I have added you to my prayer list as well. God knows your pain and what to do to comfort you.

You know we got your back.


refuz2bavictim posted 5/19/2014 23:20 PM

Thanks for the encouragement and thought Blakesteele.

This AM, my fwh declared that now that it's 6am, he can turn on the TV.

6am is the time the "Naughty channels" go off air.
This way he can't flip up through the channels and linger a second, before he gets to the news.

Apparently this is a limit he has imposed upon himself, and he clearly wanted me to know. I of course had no idea what time they ceased airtime...he most certainly did.

Not sure if I should feel good that he wants me to know, or if I should feel manipulated.

This many years out, I shouldn't have to guess about the motivation. I guess I prefer the quiet action over the spotlight gestures. One involves showmanship and the other internally motivated action.

Have I mentioned how much porn pisses me off? I can't even understand the draw toward it. My opinion of it, is one of disgusted amusement. I simply don't understand the pull, because it's so....bizarre. It's like watching a nature channel without the soothing voice over, and it's gross ridiculous looking people. Anyway that was just a mini opinion, that I am unwilling to change.

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