"You can survive this. Talk to others that have"

Klove posted 5/13/2014 01:33 AM

Newly possibly R. Been S almost 3 months. Have seen some new actions that show remorse including going to IC, taking steps to leave job and acknowledging this is a must for R (MXow is still a coworker), breaking all things off with her officially.
Tonight he came over to have the truth talk about things that happened before xmas and them post S. This is where horrible night began... Wh has insisted since the beginning there was a kiss between them and nothing more. I have found this VERY hard to believe and thought I might hear otherwise tonight. Still insisting nothing physical- and they were physically together four times since Jan (she lives away...) for work on hotels that he just told me about last night. My gut is screaming that this is not the truth. I tried to talk to him about how important the whole truth is at this point...he insists it is the truth. My gut has always been right so I'm really not sure what to do about this...
Moving on...he then said he CARES about xMOW. As a friend. I understand it- he feels badly about leading her on etc...but this really bothers me. He says he is just trying to be honest with me but understands why it would upset me. How do I deal with this?
Then I express a concern about my worries about our relationship beyond healing from the A. I talk about how our sex life (or lack thereof) has made me feel excruciatingly insecure and sad to the point of being depressed. He also expressed concern...but then says "I just think maybe we should try and look a way that appeals to the other person... I was just looking at photos of you with short hair and really thought you were smoking hot then..." Btw I have been growing my hair long and it's now past my shoulders with bangs and literally everyone says how hot I look...Oh except my WH
Ughhhhh.
I fucking LOST it. Am I over-reacting here? I was already on edge but this is just so triggery for me. Because I have been with my wh for 15 yrs. And he has been fat and thin and gone through questionable fashion times and it's not impacted my desire to have sex with him because I LOVE HIM. Plus I felt like it was very fucking insensitive of him to say that right on the tail end of me expressing my extreme insecurity that has resulted from him never seeming to want me...for years... I just feel like that is such an immature thing to say especially right now...I feel like I have always felt- if Im not exactly what he wants he will turn away from me to someone else. And not to toot my horn, but I'm pretty attractive. In our S I had loads of guys interested...
Anyway, I explained all of this to him and he apologized recognizing that it was insensitive of him. But I'm still left feeling extremely wounded.
After all that, I just couldn't continue deep conversation. I asked him if he wanted to just hang out before going back to where he is staying. I thought we could just curl up and watch tv. After feeling so wounded I just wanted to be held. Also, truly, I kind of thought after almost 3 mos apart there might be some physical spark between us...the minute we laid down, he fell asleep. which is also pretty triggery for me because there were countlesssssss nights before and after A I would lie awake at night wondering why he didn't want me (like- sex happened maybe 4-5 times a year...) I thought how humiliating it was all those nights he was snoring beside me and I'd quietly get out BOB and help myself and then cry about it...
Anyway- he woke up. Profusely apologized for falling asleep and then left. I had to ask HIM for a kiss on the mouth. Which he did...said he would have initiated a kiss but didn't know if I'd want one.
I just feel so unsure. There is so much pain here and right now it all seems so hard.
Im a week from my next IC appt.
Any advice or 2x4s for me?
It's 330 in the am... I can't sleep.

gonnabe2016 posted 5/13/2014 01:40 AM

Have you considered asking for a poly?

Klove posted 5/13/2014 01:42 AM

I knew poly was going to come up.
No...
And won't...

gonnabe2016 posted 5/13/2014 01:44 AM

Why not?

tired girl posted 5/13/2014 01:45 AM

What actions has he been showing you consistently that are making you consider R with him?

Is he in IC? Is he reading books on how to make himself a better person? Has he asked you about MC and tried to schedule an appt?

tired girl posted 5/13/2014 01:45 AM

I second a poly.

Why won't he?

Klove posted 5/13/2014 01:56 AM

He is in IC. Read after the affair and not just friends. We talked about revisiting MC but IC, I feel, is more important for him (FOO issues and personal issues that made previous MC hard)
Why no poly? I live in Canada in a smaller town. Not even sure where/if I could get one... Lot less litigious than our southern neighbours.
I am just going to try and relate the fact that the truth is not what will make me leave him.

tired girl posted 5/13/2014 02:03 AM

You can try to convince him that you need the truth, but the problem is that he is still very foggy. He is not yet ready to give you what you need as a remorseful WS. There is regret there, not remorse.

gonnabe2016 posted 5/13/2014 02:13 AM

I am just going to try and relate the fact that the truth is not what will make me leave him.

Granted, most BS' will say that they just want the truth and you are right in saying that it isn't the *truth* that ends up in the 'leaving.'

However....LIES do end up causing 'leaving.'

You said that your gut is "screaming" that he is lying to you, and yet he is professing innocence. (eta: you are at a stalemate with him). I cannot think of another way to reconcile this than by having him do a poly. Even the serious suggestion of a poly may give you a glimpse of whether your WH is R material or not.

Poly's are not 'litigious'.....they help to cut through the bullshit.

[This message edited by gonnabe2016 at 2:14 AM, May 13th (Tuesday)]

Klove posted 5/13/2014 02:14 AM

I don't disagree- but why do you say that he's foggy regretful not remorseful? Why can't I tell the diff?

HFSSC posted 5/13/2014 06:23 AM

I don't disagree- but why do you say that he's foggy regretful not remorseful? Why can't I tell the diff?

Because you are too close to the situation and you are desperate for a way to make this all okay. Because it sounds like in the history of your relationship with him, you have been the one to offer peace, to try to understand, to reach out, smooth things over, and anything else feels so unfamiliar to you that you can't process it right now.

Regret says "I'll go to IC and think about leaving my job and end things with OW because you are insisting on it if I don't want to get D."

Remorse says, "What do you need to feel safe in this M?" And then does whatever you say. Without you begging. Without you nagging. Without any further need for discussion about it. Remorse is proactive. Remorse listens to you and thinks of ways to help you heal even when you don't know what you need yourself.

Regret says, "We should try to look a way that appeals to the other person." Remorse says, "Baby, you are attractive to me no matter what you're wearing, how you cut your hair, how much you weigh. You are beautiful to me because all I see is what's in your heart."

I knew I had all the truth when it finally made sense to me. I hated the truth, but at least it fit together. And until then, I simply stated, without anger, that I knew that he hadn't told me all of the truth and this wasn't going to go away until he did.

JustShine posted 5/13/2014 06:57 AM

((((Klove))))

I very very rarely post anything here about what I think is happening in someone else's situation, because I think all of our situations have nuances that differentiate them from other people's situations, despite the common threads that run through infidelity.

However, very gently, I want to urge you to trust your gut. Your situation reminds me very much of my own false R. My H was "doing everything right", but it felt off to me. The falling asleep on the couch, having to ask for the affection you need, talking about his feelings for OW as his version of being "honest,"....I experienced my own version of all of these. We were in MC. He was in IC. And he was lying. For 3 months.

Those 3 months have been more of a hurdle in R than anything else. The extent of the lies and manipulation on H's part during that time continue to be incomprehensible to me - far more so than how the A came to be in the first place. I am struggling with the anger I have towards myself for not trusting my gut in a more forceful way. The hit to my dignity and my self esteem are from those 3 months.

So no, no one knows what is happening in your case. But I see my H (at his very darkest) in yours.

This doesn't necessarily mean there isn't hope. We are doing well now in R. But that didn't begin to happen until H came totally clean, on his own, about everything. And the immediate change in his behavior was obvious remorse, instead of the regret I'd been seeing. My gut stopped screaming. But he had to get there on his own.

I'm sorry....I know this isn't what you wanted to hear.

Klove posted 5/13/2014 07:05 AM

I should add that the timing of this "wanting back in" is suspect. Right after he saw I was following through with L and went to see his own and right after his step father, who was going to help him financially found out about the A and withdrew his support.
Ugh....
I feel so fucking awful right now.

HFSSC posted 5/13/2014 07:41 AM

I feel so fucking awful right now.

If you do, feel awful because your H has hurt you so deeply and continues to be a male genital. Don't feel awful because of any of the choices you've made. You have to do everything that you need to do to know that you gave it your all. If he eventually pulls his head out of his ass and comes through for you, or if he doesn't is irrelevant. You are only responsible for the choices YOU make.

(((Klove))) This is all so hard and hurtful at times.

JanaGreen posted 5/13/2014 07:57 AM

((HUGS))

Honestly, he sounds quite distant. Do you feel like he's holding you at arms' length? A WS who has woken up and "gotten it" is usually very eager to reconnect with the BS. It does, to me, sound like he is trying to do the bare minimum to keep you hanging on.

I think I can posted 5/13/2014 08:11 AM

So...

he's lying about what happened between him and OW

he blames you for "not being attractive" enough to have sex with.

Why do you want to R with this guy?

Klove posted 5/13/2014 08:36 AM

He knew I was pretty upset last night and texted me to say he was sorry for falling asleep and about the hair comment;

I am really sorry I made you feel that way. I can only imagine, given our circumstances, how bad that must make You feel. I will do everything in my power to not make you feel that way again because that does not reflect my true feelings.

lieshurt posted 5/13/2014 09:10 AM

He knew I was pretty upset last night and texted me to say he was sorry for falling asleep and about the hair comment;
I am really sorry I made you feel that way. I can only imagine, given our circumstances, how bad that must make You feel. I will do everything in my power to not make you feel that way again because that does not reflect my true feelings.

You do realize he's just throwing you a bone here right? He expressed his true feelings last night. Now, after realizing he effed up again, he's telling you exactly what he knows you want to hear. He isn't remorseful, nor is he ready to try to R. He still needs to do a lot of work on himself before you could ever consider taking him back.

[This message edited by lieshurt at 9:11 AM, May 13th (Tuesday)]

tired girl posted 5/13/2014 09:20 AM

Have you presented him with the question of a poly to get the truth from him?

Also have you asked him for a timeline?

tired girl posted 5/15/2014 01:24 AM

Klove, how are you doing?