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Reconciliation :
Newly possibly R- horrible night :( help

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 Klove (original poster member #42096) posted at 7:33 AM on Tuesday, May 13th, 2014

Newly possibly R. Been S almost 3 months. Have seen some new actions that show remorse including going to IC, taking steps to leave job and acknowledging this is a must for R (MXow is still a coworker), breaking all things off with her officially.

Tonight he came over to have the truth talk about things that happened before xmas and them post S. This is where horrible night began... Wh has insisted since the beginning there was a kiss between them and nothing more. I have found this VERY hard to believe and thought I might hear otherwise tonight. Still insisting nothing physical- and they were physically together four times since Jan (she lives away...) for work on hotels that he just told me about last night. My gut is screaming that this is not the truth. I tried to talk to him about how important the whole truth is at this point...he insists it is the truth. My gut has always been right so I'm really not sure what to do about this...

Moving on...he then said he CARES about xMOW. As a friend. I understand it- he feels badly about leading her on etc...but this really bothers me. He says he is just trying to be honest with me but understands why it would upset me. How do I deal with this?

Then I express a concern about my worries about our relationship beyond healing from the A. I talk about how our sex life (or lack thereof) has made me feel excruciatingly insecure and sad to the point of being depressed. He also expressed concern...but then says "I just think maybe we should try and look a way that appeals to the other person... I was just looking at photos of you with short hair and really thought you were smoking hot then..." Btw I have been growing my hair long and it's now past my shoulders with bangs and literally everyone says how hot I look...Oh except my WH

Ughhhhh.

I fucking LOST it. Am I over-reacting here? I was already on edge but this is just so triggery for me. Because I have been with my wh for 15 yrs. And he has been fat and thin and gone through questionable fashion times and it's not impacted my desire to have sex with him because I LOVE HIM. Plus I felt like it was very fucking insensitive of him to say that right on the tail end of me expressing my extreme insecurity that has resulted from him never seeming to want me...for years... I just feel like that is such an immature thing to say especially right now...I feel like I have always felt- if Im not exactly what he wants he will turn away from me to someone else. And not to toot my horn, but I'm pretty attractive. In our S I had loads of guys interested...

Anyway, I explained all of this to him and he apologized recognizing that it was insensitive of him. But I'm still left feeling extremely wounded.

After all that, I just couldn't continue deep conversation. I asked him if he wanted to just hang out before going back to where he is staying. I thought we could just curl up and watch tv. After feeling so wounded I just wanted to be held. Also, truly, I kind of thought after almost 3 mos apart there might be some physical spark between us...the minute we laid down, he fell asleep. which is also pretty triggery for me because there were countlesssssss nights before and after A I would lie awake at night wondering why he didn't want me (like- sex happened maybe 4-5 times a year...) I thought how humiliating it was all those nights he was snoring beside me and I'd quietly get out BOB and help myself and then cry about it...

Anyway- he woke up. Profusely apologized for falling asleep and then left. I had to ask HIM for a kiss on the mouth. Which he did...said he would have initiated a kiss but didn't know if I'd want one.

I just feel so unsure. There is so much pain here and right now it all seems so hard.

Im a week from my next IC appt.

Any advice or 2x4s for me?

It's 330 in the am... I can't sleep.

"But stand still is all I did
Love like ours is never fixed
Still I stuck around
I did behave
I saved you every time
I was a fool for love
I was a fool for love"

posts: 294   ·   registered: Jan. 16th, 2014
id 6796758
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gonnabe2016 ( member #34823) posted at 7:40 AM on Tuesday, May 13th, 2014

Have you considered asking for a poly?

"Oh, what a tangled web we weave when first we practice to deceive." - Sir Walter Scott

In my effort to be *concise*, I often come off as blunt and harsh. Sorry, don't mean to be offensive.

posts: 9241   ·   registered: Feb. 15th, 2012   ·   location: Midwest
id 6796761
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 Klove (original poster member #42096) posted at 7:42 AM on Tuesday, May 13th, 2014

I knew poly was going to come up.

No...

And won't...

"But stand still is all I did
Love like ours is never fixed
Still I stuck around
I did behave
I saved you every time
I was a fool for love
I was a fool for love"

posts: 294   ·   registered: Jan. 16th, 2014
id 6796763
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gonnabe2016 ( member #34823) posted at 7:44 AM on Tuesday, May 13th, 2014

Why not?

"Oh, what a tangled web we weave when first we practice to deceive." - Sir Walter Scott

In my effort to be *concise*, I often come off as blunt and harsh. Sorry, don't mean to be offensive.

posts: 9241   ·   registered: Feb. 15th, 2012   ·   location: Midwest
id 6796765
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tired girl ( member #28053) posted at 7:45 AM on Tuesday, May 13th, 2014

What actions has he been showing you consistently that are making you consider R with him?

Is he in IC? Is he reading books on how to make himself a better person? Has he asked you about MC and tried to schedule an appt?

Me 47 Him 47 Hardlessons
DS 27,25,23
D Day's becoming less important as time moves on.
"No one can make you feel inferior without your consent." Eleanor Roosevelt
My bad for trying to locate remorse on your morality map. OITNB

posts: 7444   ·   registered: Mar. 26th, 2010   ·   location: Inside my head
id 6796767
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tired girl ( member #28053) posted at 7:45 AM on Tuesday, May 13th, 2014

I second a poly.

Why won't he?

Me 47 Him 47 Hardlessons
DS 27,25,23
D Day's becoming less important as time moves on.
"No one can make you feel inferior without your consent." Eleanor Roosevelt
My bad for trying to locate remorse on your morality map. OITNB

posts: 7444   ·   registered: Mar. 26th, 2010   ·   location: Inside my head
id 6796768
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 Klove (original poster member #42096) posted at 7:56 AM on Tuesday, May 13th, 2014

He is in IC. Read after the affair and not just friends. We talked about revisiting MC but IC, I feel, is more important for him (FOO issues and personal issues that made previous MC hard)

Why no poly? I live in Canada in a smaller town. Not even sure where/if I could get one... Lot less litigious than our southern neighbours.

I am just going to try and relate the fact that the truth is not what will make me leave him.

"But stand still is all I did
Love like ours is never fixed
Still I stuck around
I did behave
I saved you every time
I was a fool for love
I was a fool for love"

posts: 294   ·   registered: Jan. 16th, 2014
id 6796770
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tired girl ( member #28053) posted at 8:03 AM on Tuesday, May 13th, 2014

You can try to convince him that you need the truth, but the problem is that he is still very foggy. He is not yet ready to give you what you need as a remorseful WS. There is regret there, not remorse.

Me 47 Him 47 Hardlessons
DS 27,25,23
D Day's becoming less important as time moves on.
"No one can make you feel inferior without your consent." Eleanor Roosevelt
My bad for trying to locate remorse on your morality map. OITNB

posts: 7444   ·   registered: Mar. 26th, 2010   ·   location: Inside my head
id 6796771
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gonnabe2016 ( member #34823) posted at 8:13 AM on Tuesday, May 13th, 2014

I am just going to try and relate the fact that the truth is not what will make me leave him.

Granted, most BS' will say that they just want the truth and you are right in saying that it isn't the *truth* that ends up in the 'leaving.'

However....LIES do end up causing 'leaving.'

You said that your gut is "screaming" that he is lying to you, and yet he is professing innocence. (eta: you are at a stalemate with him). I cannot think of another way to reconcile this than by having him do a poly. Even the serious suggestion of a poly may give you a glimpse of whether your WH is R material or not.

Poly's are not 'litigious'.....they help to cut through the bullshit.

[This message edited by gonnabe2016 at 2:14 AM, May 13th (Tuesday)]

"Oh, what a tangled web we weave when first we practice to deceive." - Sir Walter Scott

In my effort to be *concise*, I often come off as blunt and harsh. Sorry, don't mean to be offensive.

posts: 9241   ·   registered: Feb. 15th, 2012   ·   location: Midwest
id 6796772
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 Klove (original poster member #42096) posted at 8:14 AM on Tuesday, May 13th, 2014

I don't disagree- but why do you say that he's foggy regretful not remorseful? Why can't I tell the diff?

"But stand still is all I did
Love like ours is never fixed
Still I stuck around
I did behave
I saved you every time
I was a fool for love
I was a fool for love"

posts: 294   ·   registered: Jan. 16th, 2014
id 6796773
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HFSSC ( member #33338) posted at 12:23 PM on Tuesday, May 13th, 2014

I don't disagree- but why do you say that he's foggy regretful not remorseful? Why can't I tell the diff?

Because you are too close to the situation and you are desperate for a way to make this all okay. Because it sounds like in the history of your relationship with him, you have been the one to offer peace, to try to understand, to reach out, smooth things over, and anything else feels so unfamiliar to you that you can't process it right now.

Regret says "I'll go to IC and think about leaving my job and end things with OW because you are insisting on it if I don't want to get D."

Remorse says, "What do you need to feel safe in this M?" And then does whatever you say. Without you begging. Without you nagging. Without any further need for discussion about it. Remorse is proactive. Remorse listens to you and thinks of ways to help you heal even when you don't know what you need yourself.

Regret says, "We should try to look a way that appeals to the other person." Remorse says, "Baby, you are attractive to me no matter what you're wearing, how you cut your hair, how much you weigh. You are beautiful to me because all I see is what's in your heart."

I knew I had all the truth when it finally made sense to me. I hated the truth, but at least it fit together. And until then, I simply stated, without anger, that I knew that he hadn't told me all of the truth and this wasn't going to go away until he did.

Me, 56
Him, 48 (JMSSC)
Married 26 years. Reconciled.

posts: 4971   ·   registered: Sep. 12th, 2011   ·   location: South Carolina
id 6796855
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JustShine ( member #42195) posted at 12:57 PM on Tuesday, May 13th, 2014

((((Klove))))

I very very rarely post anything here about what I think is happening in someone else's situation, because I think all of our situations have nuances that differentiate them from other people's situations, despite the common threads that run through infidelity.

However, very gently, I want to urge you to trust your gut. Your situation reminds me very much of my own false R. My H was "doing everything right", but it felt off to me. The falling asleep on the couch, having to ask for the affection you need, talking about his feelings for OW as his version of being "honest,"....I experienced my own version of all of these. We were in MC. He was in IC. And he was lying. For 3 months.

Those 3 months have been more of a hurdle in R than anything else. The extent of the lies and manipulation on H's part during that time continue to be incomprehensible to me - far more so than how the A came to be in the first place. I am struggling with the anger I have towards myself for not trusting my gut in a more forceful way. The hit to my dignity and my self esteem are from those 3 months.

So no, no one knows what is happening in your case. But I see my H (at his very darkest) in yours.

This doesn't necessarily mean there isn't hope. We are doing well now in R. But that didn't begin to happen until H came totally clean, on his own, about everything. And the immediate change in his behavior was obvious remorse, instead of the regret I'd been seeing. My gut stopped screaming. But he had to get there on his own.

I'm sorry....I know this isn't what you wanted to hear.

DDay 10/23/13

Me 42, he 44
3 kids

posts: 204   ·   registered: Jan. 24th, 2014
id 6796869
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 Klove (original poster member #42096) posted at 1:05 PM on Tuesday, May 13th, 2014

I should add that the timing of this "wanting back in" is suspect. Right after he saw I was following through with L and went to see his own and right after his step father, who was going to help him financially found out about the A and withdrew his support.

Ugh....

I feel so fucking awful right now.

"But stand still is all I did
Love like ours is never fixed
Still I stuck around
I did behave
I saved you every time
I was a fool for love
I was a fool for love"

posts: 294   ·   registered: Jan. 16th, 2014
id 6796875
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HFSSC ( member #33338) posted at 1:41 PM on Tuesday, May 13th, 2014

I feel so fucking awful right now.

If you do, feel awful because your H has hurt you so deeply and continues to be a male genital. Don't feel awful because of any of the choices you've made. You have to do everything that you need to do to know that you gave it your all. If he eventually pulls his head out of his ass and comes through for you, or if he doesn't is irrelevant. You are only responsible for the choices YOU make.

(((Klove))) This is all so hard and hurtful at times.

Me, 56
Him, 48 (JMSSC)
Married 26 years. Reconciled.

posts: 4971   ·   registered: Sep. 12th, 2011   ·   location: South Carolina
id 6796907
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JanaGreen ( member #29341) posted at 1:57 PM on Tuesday, May 13th, 2014

((HUGS))

Honestly, he sounds quite distant. Do you feel like he's holding you at arms' length? A WS who has woken up and "gotten it" is usually very eager to reconnect with the BS. It does, to me, sound like he is trying to do the bare minimum to keep you hanging on.

posts: 9505   ·   registered: Aug. 17th, 2010   ·   location: Southeast US
id 6796929
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I think I can ( member #17756) posted at 2:11 PM on Tuesday, May 13th, 2014

So...

he's lying about what happened between him and OW

he blames you for "not being attractive" enough to have sex with.

Why do you want to R with this guy?

I'm not the winner, I'm the prize.

posts: 9046   ·   registered: Jan. 14th, 2008
id 6796946
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 Klove (original poster member #42096) posted at 2:36 PM on Tuesday, May 13th, 2014

He knew I was pretty upset last night and texted me to say he was sorry for falling asleep and about the hair comment;

I am really sorry I made you feel that way. I can only imagine, given our circumstances, how bad that must make You feel. I will do everything in my power to not make you feel that way again because that does not reflect my true feelings.

"But stand still is all I did
Love like ours is never fixed
Still I stuck around
I did behave
I saved you every time
I was a fool for love
I was a fool for love"

posts: 294   ·   registered: Jan. 16th, 2014
id 6796983
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lieshurt ( member #14003) posted at 3:10 PM on Tuesday, May 13th, 2014

He knew I was pretty upset last night and texted me to say he was sorry for falling asleep and about the hair comment;

I am really sorry I made you feel that way. I can only imagine, given our circumstances, how bad that must make You feel. I will do everything in my power to not make you feel that way again because that does not reflect my true feelings.

You do realize he's just throwing you a bone here right? He expressed his true feelings last night. Now, after realizing he effed up again, he's telling you exactly what he knows you want to hear. He isn't remorseful, nor is he ready to try to R. He still needs to do a lot of work on himself before you could ever consider taking him back.

[This message edited by lieshurt at 9:11 AM, May 13th (Tuesday)]

No one changes unless they want to. Not if you beg them. Not if you shame them. Not if you use reason, emotion, or tough love. There is only one thing that makes someone change: their own realization that they need to.

posts: 22643   ·   registered: Mar. 20th, 2007   ·   location: Houston
id 6797032
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tired girl ( member #28053) posted at 3:20 PM on Tuesday, May 13th, 2014

Have you presented him with the question of a poly to get the truth from him?

Also have you asked him for a timeline?

Me 47 Him 47 Hardlessons
DS 27,25,23
D Day's becoming less important as time moves on.
"No one can make you feel inferior without your consent." Eleanor Roosevelt
My bad for trying to locate remorse on your morality map. OITNB

posts: 7444   ·   registered: Mar. 26th, 2010   ·   location: Inside my head
id 6797055
default

tired girl ( member #28053) posted at 7:24 AM on Thursday, May 15th, 2014

Klove, how are you doing?

Me 47 Him 47 Hardlessons
DS 27,25,23
D Day's becoming less important as time moves on.
"No one can make you feel inferior without your consent." Eleanor Roosevelt
My bad for trying to locate remorse on your morality map. OITNB

posts: 7444   ·   registered: Mar. 26th, 2010   ·   location: Inside my head
id 6799666
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