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I am crushed completely. So a few nights ago WS admitted to me he hasn't been completely honest. He said in the beginning when I was so hysterical I kept asking and asking questions until I heard what I wanted to hear? Wtf. He said he felt forced to give me answers even though he didn't have them. So we agreed that Wed night we would put the kids down and have a serious talk. I told him I want it all out on the table. I also said that everything we have accomplished in these past 7 months is now null and void. We have to go back to square one.

So we sit down and we start to talk. I asked how many times he has cheated on me while we were together(at first he said 3, but then told me the one time was when we had split up (5 yrs ago I left for about 2 months) His eyes start to water and he says 3. So I asked him when this 3rd time was, he just kept looking at me. His eyes filling up, his face turning red. I could feel the heat overwhelming and flushing through my body as I braces for impact. Then I was filled with fear. Fear of what he was about to say. I almost busted out "don't tell me, I don't want to know". There are some circumstances that I could except but if it was anything else, I would spiral down a path I don't want to go back to. I don't want the haunting images and thoughts of what and where he did it. I had finally come to except what he has done, at least enough to where it made sense to me. I feel like it was all about to come unraveling.

What he said has broken my heart all over again. After his long pause of silence he started to talk. Instead of telling me when this 3rd time happened, he starts going on about how we arnt getting amywhere. That if we talk about this we will be back at square one, he then reminded me how bad I got at square one. Went on to say how this is effecting our kids. That he knows that I hurt everytime I see him (not true). That I will never trust him again and this will never work no matter what we do. He says that he keeps getting these feeling that we shouldn't be together ever since dday. He says he doesn't want to lose me and he loves me but he is useless. He also said he thinks he has been depressed ( this completely shocked me, it was really out of his character. ...real men don't get depressed, its for the weak minded, blah blah) so when I asked if he would see a doctor or counseling of course he said no, he doesn't need meds, he will figure it out.

I told him how hurt I was. How being lied to, manipulated and betrayed by the one person you love and trust most in the world is excruciating painful. And to find out years later? I told him that he is right, as long as he lies to me and is hiding things from me, we won't work. I was upset with him. Upset because I've discussed with him that there is a possibility that we try for R and I just cannot get over it. He told me he knows and it doesn't matter because he loves me and wants to try no matter what. So now he is telling me that there is no point in laying it all on the table because I will just hurt more, and we will never work.

What am I suppose to do with this. I'm so torn. In a way I am kinda relieved I didn't hear what he had to say. To be honest I really didn't want to know. Will I question it all the time? Probably. But dday was so horrible and unexpected it was undeniably the worst time of my life, I was suicidal and all. I really didn't want to relive that. On the other hand, if he isn't willing to tell me, how will I ever trust him again? Is this the only way to trust him again?

I'm lost and don't know what to do. I feel like running away. Problem is, I have nowhere to go. I'm a SAHM. I have no money of my own. I have nowhere to go. We aren't financially capable of him moving out or even a temporary studio. So the only choice I have is a live in seperation. The huge issue with this is I cannot be around him. I either want to hug him and let him comfort me or kill him from all my bottled emotions. I have been working so hard on controlling my anger outbursts (they were already bad but got extreme after dday). Even last night when I had him go sleep on the couch, I could feel the rage inside me, it took me everything in my power not to go out there to say everything that's on my mind to him or throw something at him. I am in soo much pain it's almost unbearable and it feels like My skin is crawling and I'm going to just blow.

Reading this breaks my heart. Because you know #3 is something shockingly bad, that's why he's afraid to tell you, he knows it will be a double betrayal. And you know it'll come out eventually. You can't R without him coming clean.

There are many SAHMs here who can encourage you about that, about how you shouldn't let that stop you from S/D if that's what you want.

But for now, you know the drill. 180 and just be. Focus on you. Take care of you and the little ones. Get yourself in a place where you feel stronger. What to do about your WH isn't something you have to decide today or tomorrow.

((((kate))))

(((Kate0421))). I am so sorry you are going through another dday. As if one wasn't way too many in the first place. He obviously doesn't know what to do and is looking for you to "fix" this, and if it doesn't work out, then it's not his fault. i.e. we shouldn't be together, this isn't working, you'll never forgive, etc. He so-called "warned" you.

180 him like there's no tomorrow. I was ruthless. I didn't even know what 180 was really (I didn't find this site until 18 months after DDay). My fWH slept on the couch, (we didn't have a spare room), I didn't cook for him, only myself and our son. I didn't wash his clothes and only talked to him when I had to. I started looking for work in my hometown where my dd was attending college and where my ds was going to go in just 9 short months. Within a month, he was doing everything he could to help me. He went to IC, so did I. Then we were forced into an alliance when one of his OWs concocted a story of being pregnant. In a weird way, it helped us, to a point. We had to rely on each other to get Bunny B out of our lives.

Life can be so strange.

I am concerned that you aren't in IC. If you can't afford it, ask your family doc/obgyn for suggestions. They usually can point you in the direction of low to no cost services, for those who qualify. I feel bad that your WH feels counselling is not for "men". However, you can't fix him, he has to do the work. Fix you. Concentrate on you and your kids. Let him truly stand out in the cold, while you get the help and support you deserve. Maybe he'll see how much better you feel and wonder WTH? Rely on friends and family, if you can, to help in any way they can. I wish I would have had this option, however at the time all of my family lived over 6000 miles away. And my friends were all tied into my husband's career and I wasn't ready to out him that way. I probably would have tried to ruin his career if NC with the OWs didn't happen immediately. As luck would have it, he didn't want anything to do with any of them once the truth came out.

Just know that we are all here as well, and will help in any way we can. Keep us updated.

((kate))

Please see a counselor. I agree with cayc - the 3rd one is going to be a soul crusher. Without that information, you won't know how bad it truly is.

Also, why are YOU sleeping on the couch?

((kate0421))

The truth hurts, but I have never seen it cause the pain that lies do.

I am in a similar space and am suffering PTSD. After Dday #1, both WH and I started IC for a month and then started MC. Six months later, came Dday #2. WH had continued the A while we were in counseling. Had really ended it with the COW the month before.

While we were in MC! When I was working on this, he wasn't. I am so devastated and went to a lawyer, haven't done anything official, but sent him to the spare bedroom. With no money to spare and a DS in college, we haven't been able to split up - and I don't know if that's what I want anyway.

So, I WISH I'd separated from him after Dday #1. Maybe he would have gotten his shit together, maybe not.

Just wanted you to know you are not alone in being shell-shocked. Sending strong vibes to you!

I'm so worried. I don't know how to remain calm and cool around him. When I try and he does it back, I go crazy.it takes everything I have to just be when I am near him.

Last night I asked if there were 3 girls now and he said no. He also said last night that he doesn't know who they are and he doesn't want to look for them and find out. (it was something I have been debating ). So I'm guessing this ONS wasn't so much of a ONS since he not only met her at a bar and got a blow job in the car when we wernt together, but then supposedly ran u to her at a bar and went home with her after we were back together. Then a year or so later fucked the friend in the back yard of a party. So I don't know which one he slept with again and I don't know if I can handle the truth. I don't know if I will be strong enough to go through it again. I just barely felt like I could breathe again. I'm so unsure about my life. Everything just looks so shity in the future. I feel like I am doomed for a lonely sad life. I know this is a temporary feeling and I need to shake it.

I just want to be stronger so bad. I can't go back to school till I pay off a debt from dropping all my classes when I got sick while pregnant with dd. I look for work but I would basically be paying for daycare and gas. How will I afford to live on my own, let alone something decent, how will I feed my kids (not that WS wouldn't provide, I think its just the point that I cant). We live so comfortable in a nice home and neighborhood, and all the things we have. I would be taking all that away from my son. He would suffer. He would barely see me because I would be working and he would barely see his dad if we didn't live together. WS says he will pay for a small 2 bed apartment if we seperate and move out of the house, but I don't want his pitty money, I also feel like this is a way for him to still be in my life in a way not just the kids. I feel like he is trying to have control even if we aren't together. But then he also tells me not to make any rash decisions? Oh ya that's right, he would prefer me to stay and just forget anything happened. To be honest if I could just wipe it all from my memory right now, I would do in in a heartbeat.

Oh and I'm not sleeping on the couch. He did. He tried to comfort me and hold me but I told him I didn't want him touching me. Then a few min later I really didn't want him near me, so he went out on the couch like I had asked.

[This message edited by kate0421 at 8:48 AM, May 15th (Thursday)]

After DDay, the worst thing a WS can do to ruin R is to lie either out right or by omission. Your H is a coward and had rather keep HIS secrets and his comfort level. This is about him looking out for him, not you. He is not trying to keep you from pain, he has intensified your pain. By letting you know there is more to know but he is not going to tell you is emotional abuse. His lack of maturity and lack of ownership of the A is the final nail in the the coffin. He is blame shifting the failure of R on to you and he is a bully. Using your pain to mask his own failings as a real man shows what a selfish person he is. As long as his secrets are mare important than your recovery, there will be no recovery. You cannot build anything new with him without the truth as your base. He is telling you to get over it and make decisions without full disclosure.

On the other hand, if he isn't willing to tell me, how will I ever trust him again? Is this the only way to trust him again?

How can you trust him with your life going forward if he cannot or will not trust you to hear the truth? You have a right to make decisions regarding your life based on the truth.

I think you need to know. He told you there was something and now your mind can't let go. What was it? Was it this? Was it that? Who? That is crazy making. That will wake you up at night forever. How can you heal and make a decision without knowing? It is a roadblock to recovery. That's how my brain works anyway.

I had a Dday#2 about 8 months after #1. Found out about a long ago ONS, kissing in bars, the ex before we were married and it took a polygraph for it to come out. This is a truth now that is good enough for me. That is not driving me crazy. It feels like a starting point to healing that would not have come without it.

FORGIVE ME this is loooong

Kate honey I can feel your pain, and your emotions are all over the place, this is understandable, but lets stop and take a deep breath and break this down into some manageable chunks.

1. D-Day #2 - This isn't really a new Dday, this information that you did not have from the first Dday. Yes IT HURTS LIKE A MF'r, BUT...It's not like:

Dday #2. WH had continued the A while we were in counseling

He has been doing the work, and has not cheated since.

Yes it hurts, but it's really learning the depth, and breadth of the information. Liken it to going someplace new, and seeing Oh hey there's a pond over there. Then the next time you go, you walk closer to it, and you oh hell that's not a pond, it's actually a lake. It doesn't change that it's a body of water, it's just more water than what you thought. The same here, it's more of the same, he cheated, he still cheated he just did it one more time than you thought.

I do agree that you can't heal until you know what he has done, and how many times he's done it. I think you owe it to yourself to get those answers. He was broken when he made those choices, but look at what he is doing now. Is he being honest, transparent, free of anger? If he is doing the work of R, then it's good that he wants to get it all out in the open now. TT and lies by omission are what kill a M. It's a real step for healing to get is all out in the open.

Do not assume him being afraid to tell you makes it worse. He may just be fearful of your reaction, given you became suicidal the first time around.

2. Financially Driven Choices - You need all the information so you can decide for yourself if indeed his choices are a deal breaker for you. If you had all the money in the world would your answer be different? This is an important question to consider, my Attorney gave me this bit of advice actually.

Fear of giving up your current lifestyle, and level of comfort can influence your decision, to a point that you will tolerate less than you deserve. DO NOT allow that to happen. If you deserve respect you deserve it, and fear of being destitute should not make you accept less if you choose to stay.

3. Having your own money - EVERY WOMAN IN THE WORLD SHOULD HAVE HER OWN MONEY. I firmly believe this. So your a SAHM. You have no income. Is there anything you can do to make money? A part time job at Walmart? Babysitting kids in your home? Providing Latchkey sitting during the school year? Find something, and do it. If you need to work evenings, or opposite shifts of your H to get money then do it at least part time. Being Financially independent gets you to a place where you can stand on your own, and know that if you demand the respect and love you deserve you won't need to live in a cardboard box or in a van down by the river.

4. Find out what kind of help and services are available to you should you become a single mom right now. Would you qualify for food stamps? Would you qualify for grant money to finish your education? Would your kids qualify for HeadStart? Believe it or not there are lots and lots of programs out there that exist to help women like you. Figure out how to utilize them.

NOW to answer the question of How will I ever trust again? That comes with watching his behaviors now. Is he being honest, transparent, patient? Is he accountable? Each time you see this it starts to build the trust back a tiny piece at a time. Eventually over a couple of years of consistent behavior you find that you do trust again. It will never be the blind, and somewhat naïve trust you had before, but it is a wiser, and safer trust.

Anger - You need to find a healthy outlet for it. Do you exercise? If not start. Walk, Run, something. But you need to use that energy up. You need to learn how to breath the good in, and blow the bad out. Yoga, or Pilates would be good for you as well.

Anger is just another way your brain deals with fear. Examine why you are so angry. Then figure out how to deal with it. If you don't journal, I would suggest you start. If you don't have IC, I would urge you to consider getting one, and start on healing your heart, brain, and soul.

You are stronger than you know and you are more capable than you give yourself credit for.

((((and strength)))

[This message edited by tushnurse at 9:39 AM, May 15th (Thursday)]

You are all right. I'm so stuck right now. I'm so upset for allowing myself to be in such a vulnerable position, dependant on him in all ways, emotionally and financially. I just don't know how to get out of this rut. I don't know if I could ever get past all the lies even if he did come clean. I need to just move on. But I'm stuck. I wish I had the financial stability to just take my two little ones and move out. I don't know how to work on myself when I'm going to see him and live with him. I don't know how to detach from him while I am around him. He was everything, my best friend, my lover, my security, my comfort....everything. I just want him completely out of my sight right now but that's impossible.

Tushnurse I just read your post after I replied. Thanks for your advice. I am going to look into what help I can get.

And what you said about DDay#2 would this be considered TT? To your other questions, I do believe he hasn't cheated in the last few years. He has changed in so many ways even before dday ( no going out, doesn't leave after arguments, no drinking with the guys, working hard on himself and his career to grow in life, spending all of his extra time away from work with us as a family). He has been transparent in everything else in life with his whereabouts, phone and passwords, but he always has been. So I don't think that's a sign of trust for him. We have always shared everything together, we even shared a cell for over a year. So it's kinda scary to think that he still found time to do these things. Well actually I was out of town both times. Taking our son to disney and my little sister to a justin beiber concert.. so I guess that's where the time came in :(

You haven't developed the trust yet, because you don't have the whole truth, you knew there was more.

He's willing to give it to you.

This thing is like a puzzle and you have to have ALL the pieces, and then get them in the exact perfect spot for it to work.

You have to heal yourself.

You have to have all the information

You have to know that he is committed 100%

You have to know that even if he did it again, you will be ok, you will survive it.

Plus a bazillion other things.

Honestly I think it's more a TT then a whole new DDay, but that's your perception vs mine. I'm sure it feels like a brand new DDay but it doesn't change the work he is doing now, or has done since dday.

KWIM?

Honestly, you have to hear it.

If you don't you can never truly R.

In addition - that's like a free pass for a WS to do whatever he wants in the future - she just doesn't want to know (would be the thought).

Honestly - you need to hear it.

Gutfeeling

Yes I guess you are correct. I'm just so scared. I never in a million years would have thought I would have reacted the way I did after dday. I felt such horrible deep agonizing emotions and feelings on dday that I am scared it will happen again. I have never in my life felt half of the pain I felt on that day. I'm so afraid it will crush me to a point of no return.

But reading more into it, it might not be as devastating. ..maybe. because I already know he has cheated, I know that he has done it more than once and I know he has lied about it for years. I think those were the really big things that shocked me, killed me inside and made me feel like my life was a lie. All the details are also really painful, but maybe it will be different this time taking away those BIG shocking discoveries. I guess this would just come down to the details and not the betrayal in itself? I think I am just going to ponder on this. I think I just need to step back and give myself a minute. I really do feel like running away though. I'm terrified of what he will tell me.

I'm so sorry. His desire not to tell the truth is not about protecting you. It is about protecting himself. He has to realize that he and his cowardly needs are no longer the number one priority. All the talk about not deserving you...it's just a pity party, a way for him to be the victim and to detract from what you are going through. It's all straight from the wayward handbook. Don;t pressure yourself to 'move on' without first getting everything you need to have a solid foundation for doing so.

Trickle truth - which is what you are getting - will kill your marriage. Regardless of what the truth is, this will kill your marriage.

He needs to be honest. Right now it's still all about him and what he needs. It's not about you and it should be. It should be what you need. Period. His actions. His decisions. All of this was caused by him. He needs to own it.

Your d-day is VERY recent. Right now, he should be thankful you haven't kicked him out. Period.

You need to get into IC and MC with someone who is experienced with infidelity. He needs to man up and give you the truth, all the ugly details. From that you can make your decisions going forward as to what you want and need.

And keep in mind, infidelity can be a deal breaker. No matter how remorseful he is, no matter if he's doing all the "right" things, it can sometimes be a deal breaker.

But, if you're both committed, and he FULLY understands how LONG it will take you to recover from this, you have a chance. It will take a couple of years - yes, years - to get past this. You will NEVER forget it. It WILL become less painful as time goes on.

((hugs))

Kate, I can feel the anxiety and fear in your posts. You've been given a lot of good advice, better than I could so I just wanted to add...please insist he tell you the rest. You will always wonder. I think he's more concerned with your ability to handle than him trying to hide it. I think he's scared that one more thing will send you over the edge and.I don't think he wants to lose you. That's my opinion and I may be wrong but he sounds

like he's trying to fix it but maybe not have the tools to do it.

For sure, like the others said, find an IC. They can help you with that out of control feeling, like when you feel like your spiraling...helped me to calm a bit. Peace to you Kate

I identify with much of what you are going through. I'm sorry and wish you love and luck. I will follow this post. Thank you for sharing.

It's not the truth that will end your marriage....it's the lies that will