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Argument pattern

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rachelc posted 5/19/2014 12:25 PM

I'm posting again. sigh....

It's a game - I tell him a need or call him on something or even mention something associated with the A's and there is a pattern - first minimizing ("it wasn't a big deal"), then he says crazy shit ("should i tell you about the five hot girls I see at yoga?), then the victim mode - "I can never do anything right." IMO, this is a control mechanism to get me to shut up. Am I wrong about this?

Now sure, I don't have to step into this but it doesn't make for good vibes between us and his victim stance usually lasts a couple days.

I'm so tired of it. I'm wondering what I can do differently if I can only change myself.

Jeez, the clarity that comes from writing it all down....

bionicgal posted 5/19/2014 12:56 PM

#2 sounds like lashing out to hurt you and put distance between you.

steadfast1973 posted 5/19/2014 13:07 PM

He's doing all the things he thinks will shut you up. Myfwh did that during our false R. Because he didn't want to have to face what a dick he was being. And to keep me at a distance, so he could keep doing all of the nasty things he was doing.

sisoon posted 5/19/2014 13:28 PM

You really oughta read Games People Play! Or have you already done so?

You're changing and it's harder for him to hook you into a game and the Drama Triangle, so he's using more tricks to get you to play...so, yup, it's manipulation.

If you're still in MC, why not bring this pattern up in a session where you both can get the MC's support? (The MC should call your H on his minimizing, exaggerating, and general Victimhood and also show him it's safe for him to just address the issues. Well, that's how it should work.)

rachelc posted 5/19/2014 13:30 PM

yep, read it, can spot it and will bring it up at MC. Sigh, not til next week though.

the hurtful crazy shit he says play directly into my insecurities too. Nice. I simply replied, "I'm sure you do find other people attractive."

[This message edited by rachelc at 1:31 PM, May 19th (Monday)]

RidingHealingRd posted 5/19/2014 19:20 PM

I tell him a need or call him on something or even mention something associated with the A's and there is a pattern - first minimizing ("it wasn't a big deal"), then he says crazy shit ("should i tell you about the five hot girls I see at yoga?), then the victim mode - "I can never do anything right." IMO, this is a control mechanism to get me to shut up. Am I wrong about this?

^^Yikes. I can only tell you how I would respond:

"Go f*&K those 5 yoga girls, A$$hole...Now, get the f*&K out"

What would he do if you sent him packing?

My WH would never say those things. He knows for certain that I would never tolerate it.

I often say, you get what you allow. Don't allow this, Rachel...you really do not deserve it. You certainly appear to be working very hard in R...at times it must feel like you are banging your head against a wall.


tired girl posted 5/19/2014 19:25 PM

I tell him a need or call him on something or even mention something associated with the A's and there is a pattern - first minimizing ("it wasn't a big deal"), then he says crazy shit ("should i tell you about the five hot girls I see at yoga?), then the victim mode - "I can never do anything right." IMO, this is a control mechanism to get me to shut up

This was a lot of the same cycle that HL and I participated in prior to my last DD and him truly getting it. If I heard this now, well see RHR's response lol.

Almost12Years posted 5/20/2014 09:27 AM

I actually commented to FWH the other day about how much less defensive he is when I bring up an issue I have - before and during the A, he would always pull the same "I don't know if I can ever meet your needs" and "I can't ever do anything right" crap. Sadly, it had been this way for quite awhile and I really didn't see how bad it was until after the A when everything came to light.

Not to say that things are perfect now, but I feel like we're more open and he's definitely not as defensive as he was before. I hope your WH can come around with time as well because it's not a healthy way to relate. :(

rachelc posted 5/20/2014 09:40 AM

you're right it isn't. also, he doesn't even remember the "hot girls at yoga" comment of yesterday morning and we talked about it last night. He said I was hearing things. i just can't believe this. He said maybe he forgot because it was such an emotional conversation.

Remone posted 5/20/2014 09:53 AM

I would like to suggest the book "Hold Me Tight".

It speaks right to what you are struggling with and argument "patterns".

rachelc posted 5/20/2014 10:15 AM

That would be a great book for us to read together aloud. thank you!

AFrayedKnot posted 5/20/2014 10:33 AM

#1- minimizing
#2- rationalizing
#3- blameshifting

Man, those are three of the first four chapters of the wayward training manual.

Rebreather posted 5/20/2014 10:34 AM

Bullshit he didn't remember. If your spouse cannot remember hurtful things said to you, they need to do some hardcore work.

tired girl posted 5/20/2014 10:42 AM

you're right it isn't. also, he doesn't even remember the "hot girls at yoga" comment of yesterday morning and we talked about it last night. He said I was hearing things. i just can't believe this. He said maybe he forgot because it was such an emotional conversation.

WOW!! This just took me back. I call BS too. This would be called gaslighting, designed to make you feel like you are the crazy one.

I hope you are detaching a bit at this point.

ladies_first posted 5/20/2014 10:58 AM

Rachel, kudos on seeing the Karpman Drama Triangle patterns in your M!

It's a game - I tell him a need or call him on something or even mention something associated with the A's and there is a pattern - first minimizing ("it wasn't a big deal"), then he says crazy shit ("should i tell you about the five hot girls I see at yoga?), then the victim mode - "I can never do anything right." IMO, this is a control mechanism to get me to shut up. Am I wrong about this?

It's not a game. And it's not about being right/wrong.

If it's a need -- and not residual A pain -- than can you preface your need without refering to his two affairs?

For instance, address honesty as a financial matter rather than A-based. If you need appreciation, mention that need as a spouse (which forces you to ask if you are appreciating him, too) not from your identity as a fBW/fWW.

rachelc posted 5/20/2014 11:28 AM

than can you preface your need without refering to his two affairs?

this is exactly what I said last night. I said this is not about your affairs - he yelled bullshit - I said this is about me needing to know if I'm safe in this relationship. And it wasn't about the AP's, it was about honesty.

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