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heartbroken_kk posted 5/20/2014 00:55 AM

So not to threadjack my last post, I decided to put this in its own thread.

I guess the bummer of my trip with Firehouse Guy is what I stuffed down in order to allow myself to be carefree and enjoy the moment. Thoughts popping up unwanted, issues I don't feel ready to address. He wasn't really aware of my low points by my own choice.

If you recall from a post of mine some months ago, Firehouse Guy lives with his XGF in a house they co-own together that is underwater. They live in different wings of the house. He feels stuck with the house and also XGF as a housemate because of the finances wrapped up in the equity/mortgage. Previously he told me he makes it a habit to not tell her too much about what's going on in his life and to maintain his privacy because it's easier that way, because XGF is psycho crazy.

I really didn't want to face the sinking feeling that his entanglement with his housemate/XGF is going to come to a head with me real soon. So now that I'm home from our getaway trip to the mountains, these thoughts are coming forward so I'm writing it out here to try to work my way through it. Thanks for reading.

We met at his work to transfer his clothes, camping stuff, and dog to my RV, and to leave his truck there. It would have been easier logistically for both of us for me to pick him up at his house. I asked him why and he admitted it was that he wanted his truck gone from the house and didn't want XGF knowing the details of his trip. I didn't push for more explanation at the time of our departure for our trip.

I have told him a couple of times over the last few months that I think he ought to talk to her about me and let her know what is really going on in his life. I have phrased this as a statement of my opinion of what he ought to do, not a direct request that he do this. Obviously he has not been able to bring himself to reveal to her that he and I are dating.

So, speculation ensues inside my head. Why doesn't he tell her? Yeah, yeah. I know, I know. Sounds very Wayward, right?

Is it going to be that bad of a scene that she finds out his reality with me? Is his story that she is a crazy psycho EX legit? I guess it really could be true because others have said that she is crazy toxic so it's not just him giving me that line. But being here on SI so long... there are so many stories that prove it's usually just a bullshit ploy to hide wayward behavior. My skeptometer is going off.

C'mon really? She's so crazy you can't tell her you are dating someone and going on a road trip together? You said she's an EX. What is she, your mother? Does she think she can control you, and you let her think that? Are you living with someone who psychologically abuses you? It's not that she still thinks/hopes you two are still a couple some 3 years after you've told me you two ended your romantic relationship?

It's not just that he's avoiding telling her or being evasive to her. I'm worried he might be outright lying to her and fabricating bullshit stories about his life to explain where he is when he's with me. Or he might be lying to me.

Maybe I'm just as conflict avoidant as he is? I guess I'm not ready to confront. I don't want him to be a liar. Cuz of all the things about him that might make him incompatible for me as a long term partner, lying is the worst.

sadtoo posted 5/20/2014 01:02 AM

BULLSHIT!!

*IF* she's really a "psycho", any person in their right mind would NOT live with her.

The finance story is crap. If the house is really "underwater" and they are "broke up" and can't sell the house, why not BOTH move out and rent it to someone else???

No, no, no, no, no. This has Wayward liar written all over it. Sorry.

absolut posted 5/20/2014 02:59 AM

Ok
I didn't want to post this on your other thread bc you basically made it clear that you didn't want any rain on the parade.

Look only at the facts. 1. He lives with a woman. 2. He tells you she's psycho.
Leads to the conclusion---->
!!!!they're a couple!!!!
Isn't this pulled right out of the cheater's manual. Oh, wait, he's got another classic...
3. Only living together because of financial reasons

Full stop. Sound familiar?? Only cheaters say this!

At this point it seems like you're the one gaslighting yourself.

Google some of the OW message boards. The stuff he's feeding you is classic and total bs. Plus he's still married anyway, right? To another woman.

And what's up with the "separate wings"? Do they live in a castle? How can you be sure about their sleeping arrangements when you don't even get to spend time in the home when she's there? Also, fwiw, "wings" generally refers to entirely separate, as in separate kitchens, entries, garages, everything. Do they really never cross paths in this enormous home?

And maybe, just maybe, some of his friends think she's psycho bc he *makes* them think that. You know, feeding them bs lies and half truths, making himself look good. How many of us had a ws who had a whole clique of friends and family who thought we were psycho? A ws who made us look psycho bc of losing our temper after being lied to for the millionth time?

Have you asked yourself about what he is telling her about you? She clearly does not know he is sleeping with you. Could that be because he is still sleeping with her? The most obvious answer is usually correct.

It pained me to read your last thread. Talk about mental gymnastics. Stop. I think you should drive right over to his house, knock on whichever "wing" she lives in, and introduce yourself. And be done with this mess. Talk about cake eating. This man has a wife, a live in girlfriend, and a fwb! That's 3 cakes right there, just that you know about!

If you are totally fine with having this carefree fwb relationship then why have you started 2 different threads about it. Clearly your gut is trying to tell you something.

If you really believed his story why start this thread.

I think this man is using you and also insulting your intelligence.

Sorry I can't cheer you on, but let's be real, if all you want is casual sex, you're a woman, you can get that from probably anybody. Why are you opening the door to this soap opera?

Cabrona posted 5/20/2014 06:56 AM

Even IF he is telling the truth, and I do mean IF!! There is entirely TOO MUCH DRAMA for any kind of decent relationship. Don't get onboard this crazy train which can only go from Guatemala to Guatepeor...

cmego posted 5/20/2014 07:27 AM

Yeah, I'd be triggering like mad.

Ex told AP's that I was a horrible bitch, "the c word" and all sorts of things. I got to read those emails.

It was a way of not having to deal with the issue at hand. Just call me names to pacify the AP's, so they were good with having the life he wanted. He got me, and all the AP's, travel and fun by manipulating both ends. Cake eating at its finest.

Sad in AZ posted 5/20/2014 08:07 AM

Sadly, I think the others have it right. They're still a couple. He may not love her, but he's joined to her in a sick way. I don't doubt that the house is part of the story; either it's the $$ tied up in it or a place that he loves.

This won't end well--unless you end it soon. I hope you have the intestinal fortitude and emotional health to withstand what's coming.

Charity411 posted 5/20/2014 10:15 AM

I have to agree with everyone here. I thought the same thing several months ago when you posted this story. I'm even more convinced now that he is either still married and living with his wife and she has no clue about you or that he is sill married, not living with his wife, and living with his girlfriend, who is still his girlfriend.

The rationalization you are putting yourself through is painful to read. Whether his girlfriend is psycho really doesn't matter. What matters is that he's living with his girlfriend. Period. You are essentially having an affair with her boyfriend. And possibly someone else's husband.

While you are doing mental gymnastics, he's going camping in your RV and having all the sex he wants with you and enjoys the luxury of you not wanting to rock his boat. And read what you wrote carefully:

Previously he told me he makes it a habit to not tell her too much about what's going on in his life and to maintain his privacy because it's easier that way, because XGF is psycho crazy.

Except leave out the because EX-GF is crazy. This guy makes it a habit not to tell the truth to anyone, particularly you.

better4me posted 5/20/2014 12:30 PM

If it walks like a duck, and quacks like a duck...

You "know" you're performing mental gymnastics to tolerate the lies, innuendos and half truths he is telling someone (maybe you, maybe XGF). What would your advice be to one of your friends who was allowing this?

It's tough. (((heartbroken)))

sparkysable posted 5/20/2014 12:37 PM

This guy is still in a relationship with her, and you are the OW. He's quite the smooth talker apparently, because you should have ran when you heard the first "I still live with my ex-gf."

NaiveAgain posted 5/20/2014 12:53 PM

Forget him. Let's focus on you.

How do you feel about this relationship? How do you feel that you can never visit him at his home? How do you feel that you are a secret from the girl he is living with?

Okay, just "one" thing about him. I lived with a psycho husband. I lost almost everything in my effort to get away from him. I would do it again. Money doesn't mean a damn thing when it comes to sanity......

little turtle posted 5/20/2014 13:12 PM

The last time XH cheated on me, he told OW that he and I live together only as roommates, only because I can't afford to live on my own. Of course she believed him and slept with him. She wasn't in a relationship, so why not?? Luckily, she had no problems telling me about all of this when I asked her what was going on. We both knew that XH was never going to admit anything to either of us!

cmego posted 5/20/2014 13:16 PM

OMG, I forgot ex used that exact same line with AP too. AP told me, "Ex said that he is only living under the same roof with you until you guys saved up the money for you to separate!"

Uhhh…news to me!!!

Faithful w/Love posted 5/20/2014 13:26 PM

the smooth talker apparently, because you should have ran when you heard the first "I still live with my ex-gf.

Wow, you should know better! You have now most likely made yourself to be an OW. And you know something is not right! You have known because your gut is telling you.

This A-hole, sounds just like a wayward... Mine always got money and gifts from OW because he told her that he paid all the bills and never had any money... funny he wasn't really paying shit I was!

How come you can't go to the house? Why did he have to take his truck and hide it at work? Why does he call her psycho but still lives under the same roof with her.

You have had your lesson to learn by being a BS, how can you not see this?

Please end it because it will not end good and you don't want to be part of something that would hurt another BS like we all were? Your better than this.

Undefinabl3 posted 5/20/2014 14:12 PM

Based on your previous post - I think it would be safe to say that he's not saying anything about you to her because he's still playing nice with her.

You are not going to make him do anything so you really have 2 choices. Leave him or understand that this is the relationship he is willing to give you.

Accept or leave.

Personally, i think you would be setting yourself up for HUGE disappointment if you stay - even if he is a FBuddy. You have already broken rule 1 of Fbuddies in that you leave your feelings at the bedroom door.

7yrsflushed posted 5/20/2014 14:48 PM

I am calling bullshit on this one. I feel particularly qualified to call bullshit on this because I lived the situation firehouse guy is saying he lived. I am not proud of it but I was young, stupid, and naive. I bought a house with a fiance. Luckily for me, her credit was jacked up so it HAD to go in my name only. Our relationship soured and I ended up with her as a roommate for about a year. She actually paid me rent and we had a written lease agreement. We lived in opposite rooms and essentially lived separate lives. She had friends over and so did I. YES we did have sex on occasion. She was dating I was not. Eventually I got tired and removed her via the eviction process.

I didn't remove her though until I actually wanted to start dating and I had to have the discussion with a woman I was seeing about my "roommate" and how she used to be my fiance. The lady I was seeing rightfully flipped her lid and I started the process to kick out the ex-fiance the next day by giving her written notice.

My point to all this is if firehouse guy was legitimately in a roommate situation with his EX then he would bring you by the house. I brought women by the house when my ex-fiance was still living there. Just to clarify, when I did bring women by I was no longer sleeping with her but who would actually believe that which is why I kicked her out.

Firehouse dude is either still actively in a relationship with his "XGF" or at a minimum he's still sleeping with her on occasion which is why he won't bring you by. You are either the OW or your presence will mess up his occasional trips to the cake eating bakery with his "roommate".

[This message edited by 7yrsflushed at 3:00 PM, May 20th (Tuesday)]

absolut posted 5/20/2014 14:58 PM

I hate to pile on but your last thread was so full on rose colored glasses while flying on a pegasus...

You know how there are so many posts on here about how "on dday my xwh threw her under the bus and went nc"

Honey.... that will be you when "psycho" finds out where he's been sneaking off to and you will be in a world of hurt. He has already made it clear that she is his priority for whatever reason. End this fuckedupedness now.

Crescita posted 5/20/2014 15:03 PM

Whether or not he is in a relationship, he is not living an honest and authentic life. He is evidently okay with that. Are you?

heartbroken_kk posted 5/21/2014 13:17 PM

Hi everybody, thanks for swinging the 2x4s over here. I posted this thread because I am trying to process my reality and to be honest and fully share my new beginnings story. We are a community and I've benefited so much from the stories I've read and the sharing that goes on and I don't want to be stingy with my story even if I'm feeling somewhat sheepish and uncomfortable about it.

We all come into our new beginnings with baggage. How we unpack the bag, what we eventually decide to keep packed, keep with us as lessons, or discard as useless stained ways of being in the past... it's a process and the baggage is a load to be reconned with.

I spent years coming to terms with STBXWHPANPDFTGs bullshit, lies, gaslighting, and manipulations. I had to investigate the hell out of him to figure out the truth. And one of the truths that became apparent early on is that he was a liar. Which meant EVERYTHING he said and even some of the things he did, was suspect. Which meant I could not trust his words or even some of the actions I witnessed with my own eyes because I knew he would do things deliberately to throw me off. Like parking his truck at work to make it look like he was at work and to fit a story he concocted.

So I've been there. Many of us have been there. So that's why we are all so sensitive to this and calling bullshit. I'm asking for your view on this because I also suspect bullshit but I'm not fully convinced of it either. Maybe there is truth in what he says. Maybe its all truth. Maybe he is not lying to me. I don't know. I'm trying to check my baggage here. Distrust much in your NB? Of course I do.

OK, so that's about me. Now, about him.

I want to repeat from some of my disclosure from months ago that I've known Firehouse Guy for 14 years as a friend and colleage. 6 months ago I started working on a big project out of the same office as him, for a non-profit that is affiliated with his Govt. agency which is what put us closer together.

I know he left his wife 16 years ago, and 2 years later he moved here, over 300 miles away, which is when I first met him. They have remained legally married - they have a son, now grown with granddaughter. STBXW has stayed on his medical insurance, and he has voluntarily supported her and his son over the years. Their divorce papers are now finally filed, they have been to court a few times and are trying to reach a settlement. It's possible he cheated on her. I haven't dug deep into this but I am fully prepared to learn that he's a wayward from way back. Would I date a known wayward? Honestly - yes, it depends of course on whether he's repentant remorseful, has learned, etc. My marital history is full of my own misbehavior as I was a madhatter in my first M 30 years ago.

I know that he and EXGF started living together in a rental a few years after he moved here, and then bought the place they are in as an investment at the height of the real estate market and unfortunately got completely hosed when the bubble broke. The property value plummeted and they lost everything they put into the down payment. She put in 60% of the equity. They have been riding out the recovery and hoping to at least get back what they put in as the market IS coming back. In his neighborhood homes sell for $500,000 to $3,500,000. I's 4 bedroom, 3 bath, with 2 garages on 5 acres with an ocean view, so its value might be $1,500,000 to $2,000,000 (I'm guessing) So you can see that a 10% increase in value is hundreds of thousands of dollars. This isn't a trivial thing and I respect what is at stake here.

Since Firehouse Guy and I have been seeing each other they have had the house appraised once, tried to get it refi'd twice to lower their payments, and now he tells me that yesterday they had it cleaned by a cleaning service and a troupe of real estate brokers came by to look at it and they are expecting to find out this week what the brokers would list it for, so they can decide whether now is the time to sell.

I've been in the house several times although not while EXGF was there. There are two wings off the main living area and his wing has not one stitch of a female touch to it. Total bachelor pad. There are no pictures in the common areas of them as a couple, nothing that makes it look like somebody's cozy home and love nest. Her wing is locked so I haven't seen it.

So that's the facts about his STBXW, and house he co-owns and co-habits with (alleged)EXGF.

What else do I know about Firehouse Guy so I can tell whether this EX story is bullshit or not?

Over the years, we would periodically inquire with each other about our lives. STBXWHPANPDFTG and I were a couple and working together for the non-profit as a team. When I moved out Firehouse Guy learned about our S and a few of the issues with our M (in vague terms). So he watched my marriage come apart. We did talk about our lives as we worked together closely on various projects. After talking about my M, one question I asked him was "How is YOUR sweetie?" - to which he answered "She's not my sweetie. But she's fine, still working at XXX" - This was over two years ago.

We are both night-owls who work well late in the day/evening hours. I witnessed him take calls from her in the evening to discuss domestic issues like shopping. He didn't close with sweet talk, just said, OK, I'll see you later. I also watched him work late and never call her or check in at all.

When we first started flirting with each other I knew damn well they lived together and this was one of the very first things I asked him about. "Don't you have a girlfriend?" And the answer was "NO. We own a house together but we are not a couple any more. We haven't been romantic with each other for over 3 years."

So anyway, that's what I know, that's what he's said. Everything he's told me has been consistent. There aren't any changing story lines. And it makes sense that if his romantic relationship with her did come apart, that with physical layout of separate wings that it would be possible to tolerate continuing to live together in the same house for the sake of finances.

GabyBaby posted 5/21/2014 13:32 PM

I'm sorry, HB_kk.
Even with the stuff you just posted for clarification, that's still way too much drama and secrecy and compartmentalizing for my personal taste.

Faithful w/Love posted 5/21/2014 13:49 PM

again I see RED FLAGS everywhere. Something is not sitting right.
I don't know what to tell you but if it were me, hell no!.
Ask him to take you to the house while his ex is there and see how he reacts. Ask to see the divorce papers and see how he acts. So even though his wife and him were separated he was shaking up with another woman? Right there should tell you a little about his values in vows but I am a firm believer that you should not date while married.