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The universe is giving me TT

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plainpain posted 5/21/2014 17:35 PM

The truth is, if on DDay I had been given all the information... OC and std... I probably would not have been able to forgive it. But information seems to keep coming to me in installments. I knew there was a possible OC, but I really had no proof until about 5 months after. Now, a year later, despite earlier testing, I have just been diagnosed with an std.

I'm not sure how to feel about this. I am glad I still have my marriage, I am glad I am not finding out about an std after a divorce, but I feel like I was not given "full disclosure" by the universe.

Anyone else feel this way? Maybe this is just life, and I should be glad I don't know everything all at once.

AFrayedKnot posted 5/21/2014 17:46 PM

Yes...I would never encourage TT. It was the most painful and destructive part of this whole shit storm. I am still feeling the consequences of it daily 2.5 years out....
But. Yes. If I had known it all from day 1 of this journey there would not have been a day 2. It all came out the way it was supposed to.

Morhurt posted 5/21/2014 17:57 PM

As much as I don't want to, I kind of agree with this:

It all came out the way it was supposed to.
Even with the TT I got from H, while brutal at the time, I now see that the 6 weeks between me finding out about the A from OBS and him coming cleaning about the rest of it gave me some time to start to learn what A shit was all about and pull my resources together.

I'm sorry though, that at the point when there really shouldn't be new info or surprises you're still getting them. Not bloody fair!

PollyA posted 5/21/2014 20:44 PM

I disagree. I wanted it all. He kept trying to deflect. pretended it was only a little..... it turned into him acting as if I was the crazy one for not believing " That's The WHOLE TRUTH, I SWEAR!". Six months of emotional torture and the lack of telling the truth makes me question him at every turn.

AML04 posted 5/22/2014 05:51 AM

I truly hate to admit it but I really don't know if I could've taken the whole truth at once. I don't agree with TT but if I had found out on dday he had a 3 year long EA/PA, I might have completely broken.

It's when I was ASKING for the details and he lied/minimized that did the most damage.

PP-please take care of yourself. My heart aches for you.

ILINIA posted 5/22/2014 07:44 AM


When I read your STD post, I literally swore under my breath. I'm glad you posted to find support. I keep thinking about the quote, "It doesn't matter how many times you get knocked down, but how many times you get back up." You keep getting back up.

When I read you posts, I am amazed at the compassion you have for your husband. As you know there are a bunch of us that are on here from last summer. You and another summer member, have such gentle and compassionate posts that it makes me feel like the Grinch! So I just wanted to tell you that someday, I hope to be more like you on your compassion and beliefs on marriage and your husband.

I hope this made sense! Thinking of you!

1Faith posted 5/22/2014 11:27 AM

I totally understand.

I tried mercilessly to get all the text messages he deleted. The phone company told me I would need a court order on an account that is my name and which I pay the bill.

In hindsight, probably for the best as I knew ENOUGH. If I had to process every deleted text etc. it probably would have put me over the edge and him out the door.

Perhaps we only know what we can handle at the time. Our body and mind can only process so much before we shut down. PTSD.

My heart breaks for you as you are dealing with such drastic situations/circumstances; OC and STD.

You are an amazingly strong woman. Your H is lucky to have you stand by his side through all of this.

Good luck. Sending many prayers and (((hugs)))

Skan posted 5/22/2014 16:15 PM

I'm so sorry. It's rather a Catch-22 at times, isn't it? You need and deserve to know ALL of the truth, so that you can make an informed decision about your life. Everyone deserves that. Yet, when you make the decision to go all ahead on R, and then keep having your world knocked out from under you, and you've healed Just Enough to keep going, until your world is knocked out from under you again, you have to wonder exactly WHEN that shit-sandwich is going to quit changing from a 2" - 4" - 6" - foot-long. (((hugs)))

blakesteele posted 5/22/2014 16:55 PM

I don't believe in coincidences.

But I also believe TT'ing to have been some of the worst, intentional pain my wife has ever chosen to inflict on me.

I had PTSD-like symptoms.

If I had full truth at the begining....would I have had full blown PTSD? Don't know.

Mention has been made that this enabled you to ease into staying married.

It did....for now.

What I am curious about is....does TT just delay the real outcome.....does it delay D?

I don't know.

Still in therapy.

Regardless.....TT might enable easing into the shock, but it absolutely adds weight and burden to an already extremely tough journey.

I, too, desired to cuss after reading your original post of STD and OC.

As I have completed list after list of what I am grateful for (a healthy thing to do) I have been blessed to have listed "no std" and "no oc".

If you run the odds, they were so so risky! Two middle aged people willing to engage in adultery (wifes AP is a serial cheater), relationship built on lies yet the one sentence of him being fixed was enough for my wife to agree to sex without any precautions, no sexual history or disease discussion........ugh. Combined, my wife beat the odds for not getting STD's or pregnant.

My single biggest wish, other than adultery not being chosen in the first place, is that WS come clean upon DD. Avoid TT all together.

My wifes ability to lie and TT, combined with my codependent issues (double ugh!!!), facilitated my choice to stay married to her while she boldly and swiftly took her A underground...allowing for more pain to endure, and further risk to our family.

I don't believe in coincidences...but I also missed opportunities to grow. I had to grow. I wish I had grown before TT'ing, before my second DD.....but then I would also have wished I could have grown before her A.....then I would have wished I had grown before we chose to use porn......where would you top this wish?

A desire to change without a plan is just a wish.

I have formulated a plan now.....and I am changing. TT'ing was a part of my lifes plan. A plan I don't fully understand...and won't until I get to heaven.

I see by your post you are putting together a plan and are changing too.

God is with us all.

[This message edited by blakesteele at 5:05 PM, May 22nd (Thursday)]

plainpain posted 5/22/2014 18:11 PM

I believe in the Divine hand over my life, and I believe that in the midst of all of this I have received many mercies I will never be aware of. I did not "find out" - my H came to me and told me. He gave me the truth. Not perfectly, not all at once, but he did. He never said, "I don't love you." He never struggled to choose where he wanted to be. He never once, not even in the fog, blamed me for his choices. I did not find out after he was dead and unable to help me process the grief. For me, those have been things to be grateful for.

It happens to people. OCs, STDs - they are real and they happen. These are real wages of adultery. I feel like a poster child. I didn't choose this, but I am trying to choose to do things that I can respect when there are choices that I can make. I am trying to raise children who will never do this to someone, and who will know how to survive if someone ever does this to them. I know my H could not be more remorseful, and I know he is as changed as I am through this - maybe more. If he were not, there is no way I could move through this with him. I couldn't and I wouldn't.

I'm not going to lie. I feel very sorry for myself some days. I feel very, very wronged. I did not deserve this. But who does? Nobody. I am not different than anybody, that I should be spared this. All I can control is my own self, and that is a full time job right now. :(

Thank you all for your kind support. It really helps so very much.

blakesteele posted 5/22/2014 19:34 PM one deserves the pain of adultery.

I did get angry with God. I asked "what did I do to deserve this?!??!".

I have since realized and am grateful that I did NOT get what I deserve. And that is a witness to Gods grace.

I, like you, feel sorry for myself moments too. Only been one perfect man in earth.....and I am not him.

Pain = growth = healing I am grasping that now.

Suffering = growth = no healing.

Suffering occurs when the infliction of pain continues. Like watching a person continue to push a knife into you.

Righteous anger is a healthy tool to use when suffering is occuring. Sadly, I did NOT use that early on.....suffering continued, family hurt further.

You and Mr Plainpain are on my SI prayer list.


[This message edited by blakesteele at 9:11 PM, May 22nd (Thursday)]

plainpain posted 5/23/2014 01:34 AM

Thank you, Blakesteele. I truly value your prayers. I am not sure I yet have been able to separate my pain from my suffering. Intended or not, the knife went deep and my pain is of the 'incurable' kind. My understanding of God has been altered - mostly for the better, I think. I have a great deal of struggle in my thoughts about the origins of life, God knitting us together in our mother's womb, etc. I feel sometimes that God conspired together with OW against me in that regard. My H had the affair, but only God can create life. At least that is how I USED to think. Now I'm very conflicted.

I have not yet resolved for myself certain things, what I can handle, what I can't. So far what I have been given seems to be what I can handle.

blakesteele posted 5/23/2014 06:49 AM

tc. I feel sometimes that God conspired together with OW against me in that regard. My H had the affair, but only God can create life. At least that is how I USED to think. Now I'm very conflicted.

Conflicted here too....growing spiritually here too.

This is what my growth has revealed to me this far.

God neither conspires nor tempts us....that is satans weapons. And yes, satan has attacked your M. M and family are Gods weapons against evil. Satan loves to see them destroyed....we are weaker and more vulnerable without them.

God DOES give us free will....he lives us that much to do that. An unloving action would be to take away our free will and force us into bondage. Sin is bondage.

I have actually prayed for God to take away my free will as I broke free from my addiction and compulsion to use porn. It was a selfish prayer....I wanted Him do do for me that which He gave me the power to do for myself. Such an insulant child's attitude! He still loves me.....I so did not get what I deserved.

Adultery. Do we deserve that in our lives. No....but adultery is not about us. It is a result of someone else's free will leading them to temptation. It has consequences that we feel but it is not about us.

The creation of a baby is Gods work. He has a plan for that baby just like he does for you and I. And, just like you and I, he can choose to seek out and fulfill that plan as he chooses (free will).

Having two daughters gives me the opportunity to know a fathers love for his children. I witness them choosing poorly.....telling a lie, reacting in anger and selfishness. I hurt for them because I know what the results will be.....but I still love them. This is powerful. Now, imagine how much stringer Gods love for us is? I am a broken human....he is the perfect One. Awesome.

God allows temptation and sin, but he neither tricks us or punishes us with it. The fact that we are given another day is testimony that judgement has not been passed onto us yet. We have free will to choose better today.

Satan, on the other hand, loves to lie to make us think judgement has occurred and that we are experiencing the result (punishment) of that judgement. This is a lie.

Next time satan reminds you of your past, remind him of his future!

God is with us all.

blakesteele posted 5/23/2014 07:03 AM

In all things rejoice.

This is what is written.

I am still owning this but it makes more sense each day.

Rejoicing in the birth of a child is easy.

Rejoicing in finding out your wife chose adultery? Seems crazy.......

But it is what we are called to do.

God makes it clear that righteous anger be used to repel sin from our lives. Adultery is sin within a M. We rejoice in our ability to fight sin, that we have not yet died and we shall rejoice in our choice (free will) to fight and protect ourselves from this sin.

Once the sin has past we can then rejoice that the time for righteous anger has passed and we go about the task to R a M. Oh how that must piss the devil off! He fired his best weapons at us and our M still stands. In cases where a M falls to adultery (wife's AP continues to chose adultery with other women) there is still hope. Satan would love both people to wall off all never enter relationship again, thus stoping the recreation if his must feared weapon against him.....the family.

I pray it is Gods will that my M and family survive this attack....and God hates D, so I think it likely he wants my M and family to remain and grow. But if it does not, I am commited to Him and will exercise my free will to become better and not bitter.(and pray the Holy Spirit helps me discern and chose wisely).

Work in progress here....but feel as if I am moving off spiritual milk and eating real food now. Kwim?


918Mama posted 5/23/2014 17:55 PM

I'm right there with you PP. This weekend marks the 2nd anniversary for me and I'm practically smothering in the pain.

But I hear my little boy playing upstairs with his sister and daddy and I know this... Unequivocally. Had I gotten the full picture on d day? My baby boy would not have survived. The mess I did find out was enough to cause me to almost lose the baby. Having had it all at once? I'm not sure either of us would have made it.

I believe God only let's us have as much information as we are able to process in that moment. Look at how many people post on this site situations that are so obvious to those of us on the sidelines. Look at how many of us refused to believe what was right in front of us.

I had all the proof in my hands...his phone. It was before I had found SI but had done enough research that I knew I could recover the truth. I told him what I was going to do and then subsequent let him destroy that phone and throw it away.

The pictures, the messages...they would have killed me in that space. I did get the full picture later, after I was better able to handle the information.

But I look at that boy and think, it was worth it. I can bear all of this pain if it means I have him too. It was worth the universe's trickle truth.

The OC is a particularly painful result of your husband's action. I'm so sorry for you. I know it must feel like God wasn't on your side with that one. It's so unfair. But I know that he makes good from bad. You just can't see it yet.

Before I was a parent, I used to be a GREAT parent! I knew all the right things to say and do. Then I had my own children and realized I had no idea what the heck I was talking about!

It's like that for my with adultery. I know that my pain has a purpose. And that for me to be able to understand it better for others who suffer, I need to be able to relate to them. Do I think this came from God? No. Do I believe he uses it for good. Absolutely.

Does it still suck ass? Without a doubt. Welcome to humanity.

[This message edited by 918Mama at 5:56 PM, May 23rd (Friday)]

blakesteele posted 5/23/2014 20:39 PM

918Mama.....I sure enjoyed your post to this.....has helped me move a bit.

Thank you.

plainpain posted 5/23/2014 21:48 PM

I definitely felt traumatized for a long time - I still have flashbacks that rip my gut out. I know I did things, too, post dday that I probably should not have done. I smashed his phone. I guess I knew deep down I would never survive seeing the texts and pictures.

I feel kind of "tricked" sometimes, like I won't be able to truly make a fully informed decision until 20 years from now. Who knows how it will end, or what else I'll have to face. Just loving someone is an act of faith. It feels like I am safe now, and I know I never felt safe like this before. Maybe because I know I can live without him?

I pray with all my heart that I don't grow bitter.

918Mama posted 5/23/2014 22:14 PM

This is a "conversation" I have all the time with my therapist. And she says much the same thing...loving people is a risk!

So she says "ok, so you leave your husband and start over with someone new. Let's forget ALLLLL the other mess that comes with that for a minute. What happens if that person hurts you too? There are NO guarantees and then you have to heal from that pain."

Well shit. So there's that big what if. What if my h does it again versus starting over and what if that person does it? I know anyone is capable of hurting someone. It's what makes us human. Sin nature.

On my bad days, I think it would be great to start over with someone new. Then I realize I do have someone new. My husband. And he has someone We are completely different people.

My therapist, who has been with us since the beginning told me this week "trust me. If he's fooling all of us, you won't have to worry about it. I will kill him myself."

Slow it down PP. Don't think about 20 years from now. That's a big freaking "what if" assuming everything else stays constant. Take each day as it comes. Decide what you need and can live with one day at a time and then take the next one as it comes after that. Your goal is to create new history. String a bunch of one days at a time together and then you have some new history to look at and decide what to do with that information.

And marvel at how great God thinks you are...that you are worthy to bear this much pain and still speak of love and mercy. What a witness you are in the world!!!

blakesteele posted 5/23/2014 22:35 PM

On my bad days, I think it would be great to start over with someone new. Then I realize I do have someone new. My husband. And he has someone We are completely different people.

918Mama.....surprised I have not noticed you before. This is another example of where I am at.

Then you mention

And marvel at how great God thinks you are...that you are worthy to bear this much pain and still speak of love and mercy. What a witness you are in the world!!!

"Worthiness" was the focus of our last therapy session.....

I have actually had this conversation with God......"really???? You think I can handle this? You think I can chose love? I can forgive? I can see my own sin and repent? Do this all while in this much pain, this much confusion?????!!!".

I have been sufficiently overwhelmed and humbled. What I have accomplished this far.....I, blakesteele, did not accomplish all on my own. God is there....helping, guiding, leading, showing me grace and mercy.

I am new to this. Catholic schools for 8 years and I just stated walking with God in earnest after DD. Started about 2 years before.....but my pride and fear had me "doing" for myself and NOT trusting God to do as he has promised.

Thank you for your wisdom and boldness to post as you have. It jives with the truth I am finally grasping.


[This message edited by blakesteele at 10:38 PM, May 23rd (Friday)]

Kelany posted 5/24/2014 23:40 PM

I wish I'd known it all at once. I think the entire game would have changed so to speak. I think I still would have tried to reconcile, but in a much different manner.

Instead on Dday1 I only found out about one AP. It was awful, obviously. But, they had just started the tap dance. I caught them early. So a PA, no sex.

We got into MC, but it was useless. He then had a one time groping session 5 months after Dday1 because he was "angry" with me.

Then Dday2 came.

My world was shattered beyond belief. He was fired for sexual harassment. I found out about two more AP's prior to the one I caught. Sexual, one was a lta. And I found out about the groping AP.

I then felt for the first time like killing myself. I proceeded to drink myself into oblivion for a year and a half and went to a psych hospital. I now see a shrink and had to recently add more meds to my regime. I'm not miserable, but I'm not happy. I'm just here.

If he had told me everything right away, maybe he would have gotten his head out of his ass sooner, not gotten fired, no 4th AP, and I'd be almost done with year 3 in my healing instead of 2. Maybe I wouldn't have tried to numb myself inappropriatly, skipped the psych ward, and not become a ghost of who I once was.

Each new lie that came out he was stabbing me again, but slowly, deliberately. Not to deep, avoiding my internal organs and just enough to make me bleed out in a trickle to prolong my pain.

Or maybe, I'd have kicked him out and started a new life altogether.

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