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Newest Member: Ibelieved (46047)

User Topic: thoughts on The Fog
splitintwo
♀ 42951
Member # 42951
Default  Posted: 6:49 AM, May 27th (Tuesday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I read the General & JFO forums. I find they help me gain a greater sense of empathy, a better understanding of what I've done.

I do, however, stay out of most of the threads; I only comment when it's something related to depression or compartmentalization or such.

One that caught my attention was the thread in General re: not believing in Wayward's Fog.

I just don't know how to process that. From what I can tell, it exists, and I say this because I experienced it.

I can't use my fog as an excuse for withholding details, as I have not disclosed my A. So there's no reason for me to "pretend" like I experienced it. Who would I be lying to? Me? I know I had an A. I'm not trying to "get out of it," or minimize. I've taken much greater personal ownership of my A since I found SI. But I truly can't recall much of what I did anymore. I had much greater recall when I was in the A. I'm sure I could track receipts & pull together a timeline, but there would be many gaps.

Is this part of the "neurons that fire together wire together" thing that Waywards mention? I just tried thinking back over the course of the A, and I can only come up with about six interactions. We had quite a few more than that. I know that. If I went through receipts, I could pull them out, and have an "oh, yeah! That's right. We did X, Y, Z." But for the most part, those encounters are gone from my brain.

The science shows that A's trigger the same part of the brain as drug use. And I think A's likely affect everyone differently--you can have the casual user, someone who takes a hit & never uses again, a functioning addict, a hardcore user, and so on. Fog, to me, is part of that...it's comparable to not remembering everything when drinking. In my drunk state, I have better recall of other drunk states, but sober, it's a bit fuzzy.

When people deny the existence of the fog, stick to the "you made rational, calculated decisions" mantra, it comes across as denying all manner of things that cloud judgment, make rational/logical choices damn near impossible--drug addiction, alcoholism, depression/other mental illness, and so on. They're real. They exist. They affect everything. To me, it comes across as saying--"think positive thoughts & you won't be depressed" or "just quit taking drugs if you don't want to be on them." It just doesn't work that way.

I don't know where I'm going with this....I suppose it's just frustration having been on both sides of the brain thing. I've experienced it chemically off, and I was fortunate to be able to use ADs to set it right again. I don't recall everything during the "off" time frame. Some of the only A-related memories I can pull up with ease are high-risk situations. And I know with 100% certainty that even though I knew, intellectually, that my husband & children would be affected if I got caught, that I was completely incapable of processing what that actually meant. Any thought of "I might lose my family" triggered the same response in me as "I need milk from the store." Now that my brain is "right" & I'm not allowing myself to wall off, "I might lose my family" triggers all manner of responses in me. I see that as a huge step in the right direction. But it was completely impossible for me to comprehend that fact without AD's, without breaking the fog by withdrawing off contact, all the things that proved necessary to end the A. Rambling. Just putting it out there.


BH: 42
WW: 37
LTA ended Jan. 1, 2014; NC started in April.
Married 17 years.
No DDay; this, like all of life's decisions, is a work in progress.

My best thinking brought me to SI.


Posts: 213 | Registered: Mar 2014
bionicgal
♀ 39803
Member # 39803
Default  Posted: 7:18 AM, May 27th (Tuesday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Split,
I am so happy I can finally post on something you wrote -- no stop sign! Hooray!

Thank you for this post. I am one of the BSes who has defended the "fog" over the past week, as my H felt almost verbatim what you wrote. From an outsider's perspective it is crazy - and healing from it is crazy. For him, he says it felt like one, long, destructive binge. For me, every discrete event hurts. It is hard to talk about, but I have accepted his description of his state of mind during that time, and I don't understand BSes who just want to deny the reality of what their spouses are telling them.

The drug metaphors are so apt - I am thankful for our wise MC who pointed it out very early in our healing. And I so, so appreciate what you say about how you were thinking about your family. It validates what my H has tried to express, and while it is so hard to hear on one level, it is better than assuming that my H was just a cold, calculating SOB who fully understood the damage he was doing. Not that the end result isn't very similar, but really - it does matter. It is the difference between being married to a sociopath, and being married to a fallible human being who was in crisis.

Thanks again for your post. And I don't blame you for not posting much in General - it scares me in there, even as a BS!

[This message edited by bionicgal at 7:21 AM, May 27th (Tuesday)]


me - BS (45) - DDay - June 2013
A was 2+ months, EA/PA
In MC & Reconciling
"Getting over a painful experience is much like crossing monkey bars. You have to let go at some point to move forward." -- C.S. Lewis.

Posts: 2247 | Registered: Jul 2013 | From: USA
splitintwo
♀ 42951
Member # 42951
Default  Posted: 7:55 AM, May 27th (Tuesday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

It's always an internal debate with topics like this re: whether to drop the stop sign or no.

With some topics, it's easier to leave it up, as I need to limit the number of 2x4s I receive.

And with others, I waffle because of the triggery nature of the post. But I decided to chance it with this one & leave it off. I'm glad it helps, bionicgirl.

I don't understand BSes who just want to deny the reality of what their spouses are telling them.

I would imagine it's because we lied through the entire A, so why would we be telling the truth about our state of mind? On the surface, it reads like an out, a denial, a plausible excuse. It can easily be trivialized down to "I couldn't help myself." I don't know. All I know is it was my reality, and I know I'm not alone in that.

Maybe it's like all things...you can't fully understand it unless you've BTDT. For instance, I can't relate to other versions of A's, especially the ONS with a stranger variety or any others that involve intentionally seeking out an AP. Even as a Wayward, I just don't get it. It's not something I can conceptualize.


BH: 42
WW: 37
LTA ended Jan. 1, 2014; NC started in April.
Married 17 years.
No DDay; this, like all of life's decisions, is a work in progress.

My best thinking brought me to SI.


Posts: 213 | Registered: Mar 2014
steadychevy
♂ 42608
Member # 42608
Default  Posted: 8:04 AM, May 27th (Tuesday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I am a BS. I have posted on another of your threads, Split, and disagreed with your stance on disclosure to your BH. I still maintain my position that he has a right to know and the long term consequences may be made worse by delaying. On other posts I have been quite angry with your position.

That is not why I am joining your thread this morning. I want to thank you for these observations. I have been in the camp of my WW making calculated,cold hearted decisions. I understand my WW has many FOO, CSA, rape. I know that but still believe she made decisions at various points to cross the line.

My WW cannot recall details of when they had sex. She cannot even recall having sex except vague impressions unless there was something unusual that stuck out and often it was not about the sex but something else that happened. My WW and the OM had frequent sex over 3 1/2 years or so. They travelled together all over the province and stayed in motels and his place was just 5 minutes from the head office on her way home. They never drank so alcohol never clouded the issue. However, it all started with "happy hour" after work and alcohol was involved with the first kiss but not for actual, physical sex.

Your comments in this thread gave me something more to think about and maybe a different perspective. I have read a lot about the fog and believe it exists but did not have the perspective of it that you gave here. I bothered me that she found it so easy (she agrees with easy) to betray her marriage and not thinking about consequences. Your thread gives me something more to process.

This is one of the benefits of SI, I think. You and I disagree, I think, on numerous positions. SI provides a safe (mostly) forum for different opinions and thoughts and experiences or quandaries to be expressed and explored. This thread is something that could help me tremendously and, hopefully, my WW. Thank you for posting it and thank you for no stop sign.


BH(me)63; WW 57; M 37 yrs
DDay1-01/09/13;DDay2-26/10/13;DDay3-19/12/13;DDay4-21/01/14
LTA-09/02-06/06? OM - COW
EA different COW 2001-2014? PA AP jealous of EA PA
"dates" w/3 lovers post engagement;ONS w/stranger post commitment, lies, li

Posts: 215 | Registered: Feb 2014 | From: Canada
bionicgal
♀ 39803
Member # 39803
Default  Posted: 8:27 AM, May 27th (Tuesday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I don't understand BSes who just want to deny the reality of what their spouses are telling them.

I would imagine it's because we lied through the entire A, so why would we be telling the truth about our state of mind? On the surface, it reads like an out, a denial, a plausible excuse. It can easily be trivialized down to "I couldn't help myself." I don't know. All I know is it was my reality, and I know I'm not alone in that.

I should backtrack just a little. .. As a BS I must admit still struggling with personally relating to and understanding the place my husband was at. I still have to have my feelings about it -- just because he didn't really comprehend other than completely theoretically that doing X, Y or Z was wrong at the time (which is crazy making, and unsettling) he and I both have to deal with the facts of what he did. It is excruciating at times. So, I do understand focusing on the discrete events/choices as a BS, because in the end, they do matter.

But, I do feel that our long and repetitive talks about where he was mentally at the time have allowed me a compassion for him that I would not have otherwise. And, quite frankly, I wouldn't be able to stay married if I couldn't find some kind of reason for compassion for him. I haven't forgiven him fully yet, but I want a real, authentic marriage to someone I know intimately, and that means truly understanding his reality during the affair, and after.

[This message edited by bionicgal at 8:28 AM, May 27th (Tuesday)]


me - BS (45) - DDay - June 2013
A was 2+ months, EA/PA
In MC & Reconciling
"Getting over a painful experience is much like crossing monkey bars. You have to let go at some point to move forward." -- C.S. Lewis.

Posts: 2247 | Registered: Jul 2013 | From: USA
rachelc
♀ 30314
Member # 30314
Default  Posted: 8:35 AM, May 27th (Tuesday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

there is no way I would have stayed with my wayward hubby after two affairs had I not experienced myself the Fog of a wayward. It IS like a drug. I get it. However, the consequences of being on drugs is that people chose not to be part of your life when you snowplow through their lives to get your fix.

But, I understand the hit off the crack pipe.
And it's one of the reasons why I hate that he works so closely to aforementioned drug.


his Dday: 2/10 but TT until 7/11
my Ddays: 1/12, 4/12 broken NC 12/12

me (WW/BS): 48
him: (BS/WH)52
4 kiddos in mid 20's

“Follow your intuition. Be smart, be brave. Tell the truth and don’t take any shit.”


Posts: 5778 | Registered: Dec 2010 | From: Midwest
sunnyrain
♀ 30164
Member # 30164
Default  Posted: 9:07 AM, May 27th (Tuesday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I am not a fan of the fog theory.

[This message edited by sunnyrain at 12:37 PM, July 1st (Tuesday)]


"I'm not much into health food, I am into champagne."

Posts: 450 | Registered: Nov 2010
rachelc
♀ 30314
Member # 30314
Default  Posted: 9:10 AM, May 27th (Tuesday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I knew the A was wrong.

I knew I had to be stronger than the pull of the A

I felt exactly this as well. I don't want to excuse any waywards because we do know right from wrong. But, I do see it as an addiction. And it had nothing to do with the AP but everything to do with me.

[This message edited by rachelc at 9:10 AM, May 27th (Tuesday)]


his Dday: 2/10 but TT until 7/11
my Ddays: 1/12, 4/12 broken NC 12/12

me (WW/BS): 48
him: (BS/WH)52
4 kiddos in mid 20's

“Follow your intuition. Be smart, be brave. Tell the truth and don’t take any shit.”


Posts: 5778 | Registered: Dec 2010 | From: Midwest
numb&dumb
♂ 28542
Member # 28542
Default  Posted: 9:35 AM, May 27th (Tuesday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I think a lot of the "fog" talk from BS comes from a place of understanding or rather not understanding it. Unless you've experienced it firsthand you don't understand how it works. It requires altering ones reality to survive the choices made in seeking the destructive behavior.

If the "fog," is used as a justification that is where it becomes an issue for many BS. The perception for some BS is that the fog becomes "another excuse," to justify dry wayward behavior. TT, breaking NC or refusing responsibility are all things that could be/have been used under the guise of said, "fog."

I don't doubt it's existence, but empathy for any BS is a hard road to travel. Early on it is next to impossible to feel any empathy for someone who has made the choice to seek out an A.

Short answer it is easier to deny it's existence and be angry with the WS than to look at the many levels going on. It is oddly comforting when things are black and white so sometimes people try to draw a fine line and make sure that black and white don't mix.

Trauma does crazy things to a persons brain and trying to alter a very painful reality is one of many ways to cope or mitigate the stress it causes.


Me-35 her-35

DS 1, DD 6
Dday 8/31/11. ONS that occurred 3 years earlier. Lied to for 3 years.

Every truth comes to light in a long enough timeline.


Posts: 2570 | Registered: May 2010
20WrongsVs1
♀ 39000
Member # 39000
Default  Posted: 9:39 AM, May 27th (Tuesday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

When people deny the existence of the fog, stick to the "you made rational, calculated decisions" mantra, it comes across as denying all manner of things that cloud judgment, make rational/logical choices damn near impossible

When people claim that "the fog" made it damn near impossible for them to exercise good judgment, they run the risk of appearing to blame their wrongdoing on external forces beyond their control.

"The fog" is convenient shorthand for the conditions that existed at the time we made those rational, calculated decisions to betray our partners. Maybe due to a chemical imbalance, a clinical psychological condition, emotional immaturity, whatever...we convinced ourselves that cheating was a logical means of relieving our distress.

So yes, the fog exists, and Split...IMO you're still in it. Heck, I sure was till at least four months after DDay, and perhaps I still am.


fWW: 42
BH: 52
DDay: April 21, 2013
Sweet DS & fierce DD, under 10
"Between stimulus and response there’s a space, in that space lies our power to choose our response, in our response lies our growth and our freedom." V. Frankl

Posts: 1263 | Registered: Apr 2013 | From: Redneck land
splitintwo
♀ 42951
Member # 42951
Default  Posted: 1:44 PM, May 27th (Tuesday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Agree 100%:

This is one of the benefits of SI, I think. You and I disagree, I think, on numerous positions. SI provides a safe (mostly) forum for different opinions and thoughts and experiences or quandaries to be expressed and explored.

This may well be true:

yes, the fog exists, and Split...IMO you're still in it.

I have no doubt that there are levels to this. I'm very new to the process overall. Hmm. How to explain. When I think of an A now, or even AP, I respond physically & emotionally in a way that didn't exist in the thick of it. It's almost as if I now have all the parts of the decision-making process back. The choices we make in life should make sense, be rational, and some of the internal feedback we get as we make those choices is on the emotional or "gut" level. I have absolutely no doubt that I have a long, long way to go to fix me, but for the first time in years, I feel like I have the tools that make it possible for me to do that.

Also, this isn't my intent:

When people claim that "the fog" made it damn near impossible for them to exercise good judgment, they run the risk of appearing to blame their wrongdoing on external forces beyond their control.

That's where it gets so tricky to delineate. Even in a fog state, I'd intellectually recognize that my actions were wrong. I did them anyway. Looking back, it's like I stepped into a sociopath's mind for a while. I operated without conscience, without emotion. I could not process effect. That internal feedback was, for all intents & purposes, dead during the thick of the fog.

It doesn't excuse it, it certainly doesn't make it OK. It simply helps me process what happened, why I was able to allow it to happen. Without that understanding, I'd be doomed to repeat the cycle again & again. It's no coincidence that I found my way here around the time that my brain had fully healed & I'd weaned off AD's. I could feel again. Nothing was leveling me out, dulling me--not years-long depression, not 18 months of AD's. For the first time, I was recognizing the gravity of my actions toward BH, confused as hell about AP, and completely lost. SI has been a godsend in terms of helping me cut through the noise much faster & begin the process of fixing my thinking, of fixing me, and hopefully, of dealing with the A in my M. I'm still one day at a time with that one.

It's why this remains truth, fog or no:

the consequences of being on drugs is that people choose not to be part of your life when you snowplow through their lives to get your fix.


BH: 42
WW: 37
LTA ended Jan. 1, 2014; NC started in April.
Married 17 years.
No DDay; this, like all of life's decisions, is a work in progress.

My best thinking brought me to SI.


Posts: 213 | Registered: Mar 2014
Wayflost
♀ 41583
Member # 41583
Default  Posted: 2:07 PM, May 27th (Tuesday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

That's where it gets so tricky to delineate. Even in a fog state, I'd intellectually recognize that my actions were wrong. I did them anyway. Looking back, it's like I stepped into a sociopath's mind for a while. I operated without conscience, without emotion. I could not process effect. That internal feedback was, for all intents & purposes, dead during the thick of the fog.

It doesn't excuse it, it certainly doesn't make it OK. It simply helps me process what happened, why I was able to allow it to happen. Without that understanding, I'd be doomed to repeat the cycle again & again.

This. It really strikes a nerve with me. I'm going to have a long chat with my IC about it. Might even be brave and share it with my BH...


Me: WW
Him: BH (totalheartbreak)
Both: 30s

Posts: 532 | Registered: Dec 2013
seethelight
♀ 43513
Member # 43513
Default  Posted: 2:18 PM, May 27th (Tuesday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I see other BSs posting here so I hope I am okay to post a response.

For a looong time after dday, I embraced the fog.

It was a tremendous relief to cling to the notion that my always logical husband had temporarily become some type of mindless pod person who was not in control of his faculties.

Later, however, I came to see it as an excuse.

It seemed similar to the blameshifting (i.e. my WS said things like, "I did not think you love me anymore" Or saying the OW was "persistent and sexually aggressive." She was, but so what.)

Here is why I believe the fog is just an excuse:

My husband said, at a counseling session, if I were to have a revenge affair it would destroy the marriage completely.

I agree, but that is not the point. If he believes in said "fog" than he would have to understand that some counselors talk about the BS fog, too, and he would have to understand that the BS has a revenge affair while out of their mind in the fog.

I don't believe in the BS fog, either. I know a revenge affair is and would be wrong. I know it would compound the damage my husband's affair caused. I would divorce rather than cheat.

Still, on many forums and as mentioned by many infidelity counselors if a BS engages in a revenge affair, many times the original wayward will seek a divorce immediately. No reconciliation discussed or possible.

If the fog was so all powerful and so all consuming, wouldn't a wayward be totally accepting of a BSs revenge affair and chalk it up to the "FOG"?

But that is not the case, and that is what suggests to me that the waywards do not feel possessed by the fog when they have an affair and that is why a BSs revenge affair does so much damage to them.

Lastly a fog of some type could be used to explain every socially unacceptable behavior in society today.

But if we did that, wouldn't there be total breakdown of society as we know it and likely total chaos.

We would have people saying I molested a teenager because I was in the fog. I busted my infant's lip because I was in the fog, I stole money from my crippled grandma, 'cause I was in the fog?

In the end for me the notion of the fog prevents healing.

I would heal much faster if my husband would simply admit he was being selfish and he felt entitled because other men were doing it, etc.

He actually did say he felt entitled, and that other men did it, but then he still used the fog in the end.

Thoughts?

[This message edited by seethelight at 2:24 PM, May 27th (Tuesday)]


“If two people truly have feelings for one another then they don’t have an affair. They get a divorce and they sort out their feelings. You are accountable for the people you hold hostage in a marriage when your mind and heart refuse to fully commit

Posts: 1516 | Registered: May 2014
yearsofpain25
♂ 42012
Member # 42012
Default  Posted: 2:21 PM, May 27th (Tuesday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Is this part of the "neurons that fire together wire together" thing that Waywards mention? I just tried thinking back over the course of the A, and I can only come up with about six interactions. We had quite a few more than that. I know that. If I went through receipts, I could pull them out, and have an "oh, yeah! That's right. We did X, Y, Z." But for the most part, those encounters are gone from my brain.

My WW cannot recall details of when they had sex. She cannot even recall having sex except vague impressions unless there was something unusual that stuck out and often it was not about the sex but something else that happened. My WW and the OM had frequent sex over 3 1/2 years or so. They travelled together all over the province and stayed in motels and his place was just 5 minutes from the head office on her way home. They never drank so alcohol never clouded the issue. However, it all started with "happy hour" after work and alcohol was involved with the first kiss but not for actual, physical sex.

Lets not forget that compartmentalization may play a part in the "forgetting" of certain aspects of an A. Compartmentalization can work in a number of different ways. In this case, no one likes to be painted as the bad guy. My self with my own marital issues included. A defense mechanism is to put those graphic hurtful details in a box and put it on the shelf so you don't have to look at what was done. When you don't open the content of that box, you tend to forget what may be in it. Especially the details. In my past I have said some very shitty hurtful things to my W out of spite, rejection, anger, etc. Things I do not remember saying but the moment she says them back to me I know I did say it and I will remember it. I just choose, for the most part, to not ever think that I said something like that because that would make me an ass. Which I clearly have been an ass many times in my life. If we don't think about the hurtful things that we have said and the hurtful things we have done on a regular basis (without compartmentalizing), the easier it becomes for the mind to let go of those things and push them away. "Nothing to see here. Please disperse." I'll be the first to admit I don't want to look at things that I have done to be hurtful to my wife, because that is painful for me and I don't want to visit it. The less certain aspects of an A are visited and kept in a box, the more details of those aspects will be forgotten.


"I remind myself of this. I am a survivor. I have taken all this world has dished out and am still here. So there is no reason to be afraid. Whatever happens, I will survive. So now onto living. It is time for me to thrive." - DrJekyll

Posts: 2484 | Registered: Jan 2014 | From: Northeast US
rachelc
♀ 30314
Member # 30314
Default  Posted: 2:26 PM, May 27th (Tuesday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

But that is not the case, and that is what suggests to me that the waywards do not feel possessed by the fog when they have an affair and that is why a BSs revenge affair does so much damage to them.

And I will mention this again, because this happened to me I didn't buy the excuse of the "fog" because I knew right from wrong when I engaged in my affair. But I was under the influence of something. but so what, I knew it was wrong.


his Dday: 2/10 but TT until 7/11
my Ddays: 1/12, 4/12 broken NC 12/12

me (WW/BS): 48
him: (BS/WH)52
4 kiddos in mid 20's

“Follow your intuition. Be smart, be brave. Tell the truth and don’t take any shit.”


Posts: 5778 | Registered: Dec 2010 | From: Midwest
seethelight
♀ 43513
Member # 43513
Default  Posted: 2:34 PM, May 27th (Tuesday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

And I will mention this again, because this happened to me I didn't buy the excuse of the "fog" because I knew right from wrong when I engaged in my affair. But I was under the influence of something. but so what, I knew it was wrong.

Thank you for saying you knew right from wrong. I do so appreciate that comment.

Yes. My husband was under the influence of something and that something was the chemistry of falling in love.

That is why dating when married is a slippery slope.

My husband made the decision to flirt with another women and then date while married.

His decision to flirt, while married, was made likely before the chemicals associated with early lust and love had kicked in and filled his brain.

However the influence he calls the fog was simply the early stages of infatuation.

We all go through this stage when we date someone and spend a lot of time with them and have sex with them.

That is why we vow to forsake all others, when married.


“If two people truly have feelings for one another then they don’t have an affair. They get a divorce and they sort out their feelings. You are accountable for the people you hold hostage in a marriage when your mind and heart refuse to fully commit

Posts: 1516 | Registered: May 2014
bionicgal
♀ 39803
Member # 39803
Default  Posted: 2:40 PM, May 27th (Tuesday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Regarding revenge affairs, etc. I think the thing about the "fog" in an affair, is is is self-deception at its finest. The slippery slope and gradual crossing of boundaries, (for most folks) and rationalizations get them somewhat disoriented. Someone comes and pushes just the right buttons (you are so hot, you are so smart, we totally understand each other, I've had a crush on you for years) and a wayward thinks they are special/different/not a cheating asshole. ( Sorry.)

So, this is why the revenge affair doesn't work as comparison for the most part. It is harder for a BS to wander into a revenge affair; obviously it happens. But, I think it is important to note that the vast majority of people who cheat, never thought they would. There is powerful psychological stuff going on here, and I think it is important for people to really understand their own situation for the sake of prevention. Just writing someone off as a liar and a bad person doesn't do much in the way of fostering a good relationship.

And sorry to post it here, but regarding the question of whether other people who do anti-social things are operating under a similar type of self-delusion? Probably. I stole money from a place I worked at as a student, and felt totally justified in doing it at the time. I felt bad about it too, but I had some rationalizations going on that allowed me to continue something I now look back on with shame. So, my thinking was foggy in a way.

[This message edited by bionicgal at 2:41 PM, May 27th (Tuesday)]


me - BS (45) - DDay - June 2013
A was 2+ months, EA/PA
In MC & Reconciling
"Getting over a painful experience is much like crossing monkey bars. You have to let go at some point to move forward." -- C.S. Lewis.

Posts: 2247 | Registered: Jul 2013 | From: USA
seethelight
♀ 43513
Member # 43513
Default  Posted: 2:47 PM, May 27th (Tuesday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Probably. I stole money from a place I worked at as a student, and felt totally justified in doing it at the time. I felt bad about it too, but I had some rationalizations going on that allowed me to continue something I now look back on with shame.

So, my thinking was foggy in a way.

Can you walk me through your thought process here to justify the theft?

I really do want to understand.

Also can you explain what you mean when you said it would be harder for a BS to wander into a revenge affair.

I hear BS's mention them a lot, and counselors say, it's often the first threat a BS makes on dday.

I threatened one, too, but would not follow through. It is just not me.

[This message edited by seethelight at 2:49 PM, May 27th (Tuesday)]


“If two people truly have feelings for one another then they don’t have an affair. They get a divorce and they sort out their feelings. You are accountable for the people you hold hostage in a marriage when your mind and heart refuse to fully commit

Posts: 1516 | Registered: May 2014
20WrongsVs1
♀ 39000
Member # 39000
Default  Posted: 3:40 PM, May 27th (Tuesday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

The choices we make in life should make sense

Your choice to have an A made sense and seemed perfectly rational to you at the time. Otherwise you wouldn't have done it.

It doesn't excuse it, it certainly doesn't make it OK. It simply helps me process what happened, why I was able to allow it to happen.

Whenever you employ phrasing that implies you're not taking ownership of your choices, I'm gonna throw a flag. You weren't a casual observer, split, you didn't "allow it to happen."


fWW: 42
BH: 52
DDay: April 21, 2013
Sweet DS & fierce DD, under 10
"Between stimulus and response there’s a space, in that space lies our power to choose our response, in our response lies our growth and our freedom." V. Frankl

Posts: 1263 | Registered: Apr 2013 | From: Redneck land
sunnyrain
♀ 30164
Member # 30164
Default  Posted: 4:21 PM, May 27th (Tuesday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

You weren't a casual observer, split, you didn't "allow it to happen."

Exactly. Which is why I personally don't buy in to the fog. Most of us made it happen. Takes two to tango, and all that jazz.

[This message edited by sunnyrain at 12:38 PM, July 1st (Tuesday)]


"I'm not much into health food, I am into champagne."

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