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Newest Member: Jasper1 (46106)

User Topic: He loved her.
JustForgave
♀ 36038
Member # 36038
Default  Posted: 4:43 PM, May 28th (Wednesday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I would love to hear from others who are trying to or have reconciled, and who have a remorseful WS who has never expressed a dislike or much of anything negative about the OP.

WH is here for me, doing what he can, doing so much right, but he simply cannot dredge up any negative feelings about OP or her/their actions. Even knowing how badly they hurt me, he cannot see her as anything but good, and at best (to me, anyway) as maybe slightly manipulative.

I know I can't make him feel something he doesn't, and I'm having to just accept that he will always carry around the memories of their time together as a wonderful time in his life.

I suppose I should feel great that he gave up that wonderful time to come back to me, but I don't.


Me: 47
FWH: 40 (SI username: Bumbling)
DD: 11

DDay #1: June 9, 2012
Dday #2 (TT): November 29, 2012
DDay #3 (The BIG one, ALL the TT): March 30, 2013
False R: June 12, 2012 - March 21, 2013
REAL R: March 21, 2013 - present


Posts: 303 | Registered: Jul 2012 | From: Texas
whattheh
♀ 40032
Member # 40032
Default  Posted: 4:49 PM, May 28th (Wednesday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I don't see this as something ur husband has to feel. These are facts about her and himself which he has to face. The reason he doesn't see her in a bad light is because then he would have to truly face what he and she conspired to do and did against you and his family. Really what isn't negative about what they did and about her? Its all really bad and so is OP for knowingly participating.

[This message edited by whattheh at 4:51 PM, May 28th (Wednesday)]


BW- mid 50's (me)
fWH-late 50's
M 33 T 35
DD-Early 2013 PA 2010
In R but I have PTSD...

Posts: 610 | Registered: Jul 2013 | From: USA
RippedSoul
♀ 40055
Member # 40055
Default  Posted: 5:08 PM, May 28th (Wednesday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

About a month ago, my SLAWH told me--for the first time--how much he regretted his affair and how remorseful he felt. D-day was 15+ months ago. When I started crying, he asked why. When I told him it's because I didn't think I'd ever hear those words, he said that he didn't think he'd ever say them. I honestly don't know if he's just coming to his senses, if he's starting to heal internally himself, if he's beginning to realize how horrible what he did was, if he's finally healthy enough to face the reality of his betrayal.

He recommitted to me and to our family on D-day, and he's made little steps forward every month since then, but he was in a bad place--addiction-wise--when he started, so it's simply been a long, slow road. Luckily, there really have been signs that have kept me hopeful--very few words, many more actions. As he continues to heal, I'm sure I'll hear more details, but I'm letting him set the pace as long as I know he's trying and progressing. Pressuring him won't fix any of this. If it's not authentic, not organic, I don't want any of it. Hugs to you!


BW: 49; SLAWH: 46; M: 23 yrs
DD#1--11/30/12 (prostitute #1)
DD#2--1/29/13 (AP, escorts #1 & #2)
DD#3--9/13 (trolling MILF site)
DD#4--10/8/13 (EA with AP cont'd)
DD: 20; DD: 18; DS: 16; DS: 14
PS: I've NEVER NOT edited my posts

Posts: 482 | Registered: Jul 2013 | From: California
sisoon
♂ 31240
Member # 31240
Default  Posted: 5:18 PM, May 28th (Wednesday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

...he simply cannot dredge up any negative feelings about OP or her/their actions.

If he doesn't see anything wrong with his part of the A, I think he's got a serious problem.

Didn't he at least violate vows and promises and lie to you? Or did I misread you?


fBH (me) - 70 (22 in my head), fWW (plainsong) - 65+, Married 45+, together since 1965
DDay - 12/22/2010
Recover'd and R'ed
I share my own experience because it's the only experience I know, not because I'm a good model.

Posts: 10793 | Registered: Feb 2011 | From: Chicago area
Razor
♂ 16345
Member # 16345
Default  Posted: 5:21 PM, May 28th (Wednesday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

You cant control what other people think or feel.

Initially I KNOW my WW had lingering positive feelings about her OM. It was a LTA. Probably 6 to 8 years of it a EA before it became a PA for another 3+ years.

They were in love. I saw enough of their letters to know that they believed what they felt was real. They were also together long enough for the rush of young love to wear off.

They were in love and felt that a cruel twist of fate had it that they had not met before they met their BSs and had children with them. Their commitments to their marriages kept them from being together (because they had SO much integrity you know).

Eventually WW came about and I dont believe she still has positive feelings for her OM. She says she hates him. But as we all know that could well be a lie.

I believe my WW will lie if she can get away with it. And she will lie to keep the peace. If I ask if she has lingering feelings for OM of course she can lie and I will never know the truth. So why would I bother asking?

We are together. I dont think she has contact with OM anymore. And while I am not joyous in our relationship I am at least content.

I have a plan in place where I can D her and have some happiness. I will follow that plan should she cross any boundaries in the future.

Whether she still has feelings for OM I have no way of knowing. If she does then those feelings are her burden. Not mine.

I can only live my life. I can only control myself. For now I am happy to stay in the M. But should things change I have plan B ready.

Knowing what I can and can not control along with having plan B keeps me at least partially sane.


Forgive and forget = Relive and regret.

Hope in reality is the worst of all evils because it prolongs the torments of man.
Friedrich Nietzsche


Posts: 3483 | Registered: Sep 2007
sunvalley
♀ 42952
Member # 42952
Default  Posted: 5:27 PM, May 28th (Wednesday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

The A is an illusion. It is an escape from reality into a place where you have no responsibility, no commitments and you can be reckless and hurt other people without even considering their feelings. He 'loved' her because he didn't have to deal with real life with her. My H had no emotions for the OP, so I can't help you in that aspect of offering the opinion of someone who's 'been there', but he very much signed up for the escapism and ego boosting of the As. But I can tell you that if he had to go live real life with her for a while, chances are she wouldn't be held in such high regards - he'd probably be looking to replace her with the next person who gives him those butterfly feelings that he equates to 'love' once things got 'real'. It's easy to think the world of someone who focuses only on you, puts you first and compromises everything to be with you...but how long can that last really? I focus on my H, but I have a life too - to someone who is low self esteem or likes the ego boosting, a healthy balance relationship will never be enough until they get help to understand that. An AP is often an ego booster and willing to drop everything to be there at their beck and call. But that's not real life. Real life is bills and work, kids and stress - working through problems together, celebrating the good times together too. A true love will last the ups and the downs together. How can he know he loves her if they've never been through day to day life together? Has he done any IC to examine this at all?


Dday July 2013
Me: BW mid 30s
Him: WH mid 30s
4PAs came from multiple onlines
Possible SA

Posts: 769 | Registered: Mar 2014
tremble
♀ 43170
Member # 43170
Default  Posted: 5:37 PM, May 28th (Wednesday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I'm not sure what goes in in their tiny little minds but they try so hard to protect themselves and their image of themselves I think it's hard for them to really admit the truth.


You can't stop the waves, but you can learn to surf. Joseph Campbell

Posts: 78 | Registered: Apr 2014 | From: United States
Random thoughts
♀ 2959
Member # 2959
Default  Posted: 5:48 PM, May 28th (Wednesday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

His statement and feelings about that time in his life is still the thinking of a spouse with wayward thoughts..

A remorseful spouse would look at that time with disgust and loathing of the person they were...

I have no fond memories of my time spent cheating and running around, that person I can't even relate to now


Those three words are said too much and not enough.
Chasing Cars-Snow Patrol.
FWW

Posts: 1626 | Registered: Dec 2003 | From: Some where in New Jersey
OakStreet
♀ 41193
Member # 41193
Default  Posted: 6:40 PM, May 28th (Wednesday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

((JustForgave))

While I haven't decided whether to try to reconcile after Dday 2, I understand your feelings completely!

My WH was a textbook case with all the denials, trickle truth, blaming me for our lukewarm marriage, etc, etc.

It "seemed" like he was going through the motions: scheduled talks, answering questions, and all the steps the WH is supposed to take. But one difficult night, I said, "I am waiting for you to say you're disgusted with yourself and disgusted with her!"

He claimed he had already said that but I am sure I would have heard if he had. He NEVER said one thing negative about her - but of course how could he - he had taken the A underground for 5 months.

Finally, last week he said "Now, I see how AP really is," after she sent him a hot/cold email.

I am waiting for more and feel confident I will get it.


Me: 58
Him: 65
Married: 21 years (well, we'll say 19 now!).
One son: 19, 2 adult stepdaughters
DDay: Oct. 14, 2013
18 month EA/PA with COW
Dday #2: 4/16/14 - took it underground for 5 months.
Haven't decided on outcome.

Posts: 558 | Registered: Nov 2013
Ostrich80
34827
Member # 34827
Default  Posted: 7:10 PM, May 28th (Wednesday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I think when there was emotions involved, they do think they loved them. However, if he can't see the negatives in both of them, then he needs to do some soul searching. I agree with the other posters, when he gets what he did, he will hopefully see how it really was...not magical, not special..just two selfish people living a fantasy. I know it hurts like a bitch to think, ws thinks its love. I know my ws would never admit it but I know he feels it with ow.


BS..me
WS..him
Been with him over half my life
4kid
DD1 10-01-09 DD2 02-12-12 discovered it never ended
OW..nothing special. Just your average skank
Status..#$%@????

Posts: 5280 | Registered: Feb 2012 | From: midwest
TheBestMe
♀ 39476
Member # 39476
Default  Posted: 8:39 PM, May 28th (Wednesday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

WH is here for me, doing what he can, doing so much right, but he simply cannot dredge up any negative feelings about OP or her/their actions. Even knowing how badly they hurt me, he cannot see her as anything but good, and at best (to me, anyway) as maybe slightly manipulative


My H has been open about his part in hurting our relationship. But, I needed to hear him say something negative about the AP. I needed the reassurance that my H was seeing "it" for the type of creature donkey is.

Recently, without prompting from me, my H has expressed something about the AP's character. It may be that in his healing my H can better see the truth.

This realization is theirs to own and theirs to express. Hopefully in time your H will be in a place where he feels safe enough and strong enough to say what you need to hear.


ME Doing Better
WH Trying As Best He Can
Married 23 years
Status: Working towards friendship
D Day #1 - 2007 My gut told me
D Day #2 - 2010 His D told me
D Day #3 - 1/11/2013 OW Confirmed
LTA 7 years

Both feet pointed forward; positive


Posts: 508 | Registered: Jun 2013 | From: Inner Peace
BtraydWife
♀ 42581
Member # 42581
Default  Posted: 9:07 PM, May 28th (Wednesday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I would have trouble R-ing with a wayward like this. He didn't love her-he's delusional.

He can't possibly be remorseful when he's in denial about how he and she (and what they did together)hurt you. How can hurting you be a positive feeling? That just does not make sense.

I don't blame you for feeling uneasy that he doesn't "see" things for how they really are. As long as he's in denial an A is a possibility for the future. Why wouldn't he want more "great memories"?

His denial is dangerous for you and your relationship. He sounds more like he's in compliance rather than true R. I'm so sorry. Trust your gut!


Me-BW
Him-WH
DD-March 2010
TT for 6 months
Unremorseful for 3.5 years

Delay is the deadliest form of denial. - C. Northcote Parkinson

Your standards aren't up for negotiation just because he/she can't meet them.


Posts: 2677 | Registered: Feb 2014 | From: United States
2boys11
♀ 40551
Member # 40551
Default  Posted: 9:51 PM, May 28th (Wednesday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I have absolutely been there with my WH. It drove me crazy that he couldn't see anything negative about the AP. I would get irate about it. I had to stop asking him and dwelling on how he saw things because it put me in such a bad spot.

For us, it was a very slow process of WH coming out of his fog. The farther he got from the affair, the clearer he saw it. But it has taken a year for me to see any progress in him. For a long time, he contended it was "love". Now he is beginning to see he was in such a fog and that infatuation is very different than love. Living in an affair is not real life, not real love, not reality!

I equate it to being on a boat. The farther away from the coast you get, the houses get smaller and smaller and your perspective changes. I think time and space has helped WH out of his fog.

I will warn you, some of our reconciliation was false when he still thought the AP was wonderful. He was still having limited contact with the AP when he was suppose to be NC. Our only true healing started when NC began and wasn't broken.

Also we are still in R and I don't know if we will make it out of this storm. Sometimes I hesitate to chime in because God knows how my story will end but this is my experience so far.

Hugs!


BS - Me, 36
FWH- Him, 38
Married 10 years, 3 beautiful kids 6 and under
DDay - Sept 13, 2013
TT for 7 months

Posts: 17 | Registered: Sep 2013
RomanticInnocenc
♀ 43041
Member # 43041
Default  Posted: 11:52 PM, May 28th (Wednesday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

WH stated that AP was really a nice person on dday, but that's when he still felt that he wasn't necessarily a 'bad' person, just someone who fucked up. Two days later it seemed to change, that's when he gave me what he says is the full truth of all his misdeeds, and his story has never wavered since, although detail has been added. One night I basically hit him over the head with his reflection (figuratively speaking) and said to him "you deliberately hurt me and you didn't care"! He was very confronted by that statement and in fact could not conceed that night that that was the truth. But I would not let it go until he got it and said it to me. He has always said he never stopped loving me or even wanted to leave our marriage, but he convinced himself that what he felt for her was love because that's what he had to say to himself to be ok with it. But I pushed his nose into that mirror and basically screamed LOOK! Because at the end of the day, nobody deliberately hurts someone they purport to love, deliberately and not care, unless they are broken, evil or a psychopath. She was complicit in that if nothing else. Perhaps he really needs to see himself before he can see her. Right now I think he might be taking a sideways glance at himself but he is not facing the mirror full on!


Me: BS 31
WH: 29 (theseseatsRtaken)
DS: getting close to 1
Together 10 years, married 2.
DD1: 8th of Jan 2014
DD2: 10th of Jan 2014
NC: 8th of Jan
In hopeful R!

Posts: 432 | Registered: Apr 2014 | From: Australia
sinsof thefather
♀ 29295
Member # 29295
Default  Posted: 4:08 AM, May 29th (Thursday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

If he doesn't see anything wrong with his part of the A, I think he's got a serious problem.
His statement and feelings about that time in his life is still the thinking of a spouse with wayward thoughts..

A remorseful spouse would look at that time with disgust and loathing of the person they were...

He can't possibly be remorseful when he's in denial about how he and she (and what they did together)hurt you. How can hurting you be a positive feeling?
when he gets what he did, he will hopefully see how it really was...not magical, not special..just two selfish people living a fantasy.
WH stated that AP was really a nice person on dday, but that's when he still felt that he wasn't necessarily a 'bad' person,
All of the above. But mostly this:
Perhaps he really needs to see himself before he can see her.
Forgive me for saying so but I remember you and your husband when he was on here in the past. Particularly very painful thread of yours about something he said to you, that he joined in with and he seemed to me at the time to be someone who was closed off to any opinion other than his own and who wasn't open to contemplating that he could be wrong in his own thought processes. Refusing to see any bad in OW strikes me in the same vein. Stubbornly shut off. He's got his views - and he's keeping them. He'll do actions to help you, but he won't do any internal work for you.

The affair was disgraceful and contemptible behaviour from the both of them. It was an adulterous affair that involved secrets, lying and betrayal from the both of them. She helped him to hurt you - and he hurt you very badly.

Lying, cheating, and betraying. What can possibly be 'good' about any of that? If he really saw it for that how could it bring any positive memories at all?

I know I can't make him feel something he doesn't, and I'm having to just accept that he will always carry around the memories of their time together as a wonderful time in his life.
I don't know that I could live with that longterm Justforgave. You say he's remorseful and there working on the marriage now, but does he do any work on himself internally? Does he have any IC? Have you ever asked him to come back here and post on the wayward side to understand himself better? Or doesn't he feel he needs to understand what it was that made it OK for him to do that and to still have good memories of the OW?

My personal opinion is that if what you say is how he really feels then he is actually still refusing to see it, or accept it, because deep down inside he still cannot accept being wrong about OW or facing the truth about what he and OW did together.

Perhaps he really needs to see himself before he can see her. Right now I think he might be taking a sideways glance at himself but he is not facing the mirror full on!
I agree. I think if he fully saw what he did clearly as unjustified betrayal regardless of any 'reason' he thought he had for it (there are other ways to deal with any problems he had) then he'd be viewing OW in a different light. She helped him to be the very worst he could possibly be - a betraying liar - how can that possibly make her a good person?


...second star to the right and straight on till morning.

Posts: 1904 | Registered: Aug 2010 | From: UK
HowToLiveWithIt
♂ 18662
Member # 18662
Default  Posted: 9:15 AM, May 30th (Friday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

We all would liek the whole A not to be true, but we got to accept facts. I think usually it happened because they wanted it, all it love, lust, it happened. They may be in remorse, but if you want honesty, you got to accept they cannot change the past, they may not emphasize how and why it felt good for them but it most likely did feel good or they would not be doing this. Remorse help but it will not change the past, this is what we have to learn to live with!


Me BH 50, seemingly married happily 25 years
Wife 47, had 3 PA affair, last one developed as EA but then turned PA and sporadic meeting 2 times a year at conferences but lasted for 8 years. Trying to reconcile.

Posts: 70 | Registered: Mar 2008
hopefulmother
♀ 38790
Member # 38790
Default  Posted: 3:46 PM, May 30th (Friday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

So, he is either still running from himself and refuses to see himself in a negative light (because after all you can't see her in a negative light without exposing himself)

or

He really doesn't care and feels that it was fun in spite of how he hurt you because he feels entitled to have his A at your expense.

or

He is a narcissist and will never admit he was wrong. EVER.

The question is: are YOU okay with staying in a marriage with either of these options?

Sounds like you need a second round of 180. That is okay. I had to do the same damn thing. Our ddays are close and my husband didn't see her in any negative way for 7-8months till after Dday. In the end, it really wasn't about her at all. He was at indifference already. He just didn't want to face himself and admit how cruel he was to me. Like others posted on another thread. They are mirror images of each other. To say something negative about them and their actions, they have to say the same damn thing about themselves.

It takes a long time for some of these WS to face themselves. After all for most of them the A is nothing but an ego boost. So, it wouldn't make sense for them to easily destroy themselves by facing how ugly and cruel they were.


Me-BW 39
WH-39
D-day 9-4-12
Major TT 8-14
Friends for 20yrs dating since 2000
Married 10yrs with 2 toddlers
My wedding band is a symbol of hope, forgiveness, love, and grace.

Posts: 954 | Registered: Mar 2013 | From: PA
Topic Posts: 17

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