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Its just a short one as to be honest don't really know what to say. BGF might meet me today due to myself finding something of her mothers when i was cleaning through my stuff.

It was originally due to money we both agreed that i would give for the holiday we went on. But i declined to just some of it today. Due to there being no work and not wanting to put myself into debt, i stated that i will give the money when i have it all like i both agreed.

When asking her I was going to ask if we could talk if your still collecting the iron.

I got back a

Funny how I knew you'd say that. So predictable

I know its because shes still angry at me and looking for me to bite, but i ignored that comment as to not provoke any arguments.

I guess the main issue is. If we do manange to talk. I don't know where to start. I know too keep apoligizing again. But then do i start with myself saying that im changing. Or do i ask her, what did she think about the whole relationship as we havent even really talked about any of that properly face to face.

Any help would be greatly appreciated. I don't want to screw this up

As I have made some positive changes already as stated in a previous post only yesterday.

Your GF's "so predictable" comment does not come from her anger, nor is it an attempt to "bite".

It can give you some clear insight where you seem to be oblivious.

In fact, your GF is wise beyond her 19 years.

As I have made some positive changes already as stated in a previous post only yesterday.

No you haven't. You are only seeking to "rug-sweep".

But, your GF is pointing out that there is NO CHANGE IN YOU, that you are still behaving just like the "old" one. Predictably.

You are on here asking people for a "script" that will "work" to get your GF back.

I seriously doubt that you have any chance at all

to get her back. I do know this, that if I were her, and you treated me the way you treated her, I would be so far the hell out of your life it would make your head spin.

And that is because, I know, just like your GF knows, that NO LASTING CHANGE IN A PERSON occurs in 15 days. Once she "comes back", you will revert to the "old", because no REAL CHANGE has happened, you only got on a website and found your "script" and got on the stage for a bit.

You have operated your entire life by a "script", to this point. You have no moral compass inside you that is guiding your behavior. You were provided none by your parents. That is unfortunate, but it is a problem which can be overcome. You will have to parent yourself.

You need to find a psychotherapist who can guide you into yourself, to find out WHY you behave as you do, and to guide you through the PROCESS of building your internal guidance system.

Then, a few years from now, when you have actually accomplished REAL CHANGE (the kind that comes from the inside out), you could seek to find a good young lady to court and marry.

She's asked for NC but she's agreed to meet with you, this is good.

Fight the urge to go in all guns blazing, don't bombard her with talk about your changes and your progress. Let her see it by remaining calm, in control of yourself. Simply tell her you would like the opportunity to talk more about the situation, acknowledge that today isn't that time and you are willing to wait until she is ready.

Tell her that you have been been fixing yourself and feel you have been making progress. Don't be disheartened if she isn't overly enthusiastic about that or even reacts with anger.

She will most likely be angry that you didn't fix yourself before you cheated and may have a 'too little, too late' attitude.

Good luck, stay calm.

You are only seeking to "rug-sweep".

I respectfully disagree with tfkeel. You've had some interesting realisations over the last few days and I think you're beginning to understand the huge amount of work you have to do to turn yourself into a safe partner and a healthy and authentic person. Everyone has to start somewhere, right?

I agree with tfkeel in that I don't think your relationship with your BGF is heading for R. While that is a shame and you will understandably be feeling upset about this, it's irrelevant in terms of your own healing. But you should use what you've already learned about effective communication to end this relationship with your BGF in an amicable and mature way that ensures she does not suffer any more pain.

This was in your most recent post that is still on this page.

As i almost backlsided today when i found something of her mothers which would have given me an excuse to message her, Im glad i spoke to my mother who reassured me that if they need it straight away they will ask for it, and just wait and give her the NC she needs ATM.

You did not need to message her, you are using a common household item as an excuse (your word!) to harass this 19 year old into relationship talks even though she has dumped you (rightfully so) and has told you she wants NO CONTACT.

You are not her husband. You have no kids. You message her repeatedly after she asks you not to. At a certain point it becomes harassment.

And I agree, I think she is right about you. You were looking for reasons to instigate talks with her about the relationship. Something in the tone of your posts comes off very entitled. I also have ADHD and none of what you described is a problem with me. I think you originally told her you were going to pay her back simply to get her to meet, then you found something in your home to return to her so you changed it. If you can at all give her the money you owe her for your joint vacation, why are you not doing it? Are you trying to find a reason to be in touch with her for as long as possible?

The "insight" you have into yourself is highly superficial and your reasons for not seeing a therapist are pretty lame. It seems like you think you should be able read some stuff on the internet, say "I'm sorry" a whole bunch, and be done.

Do you understand that she has the right to terminate this relationship? Do you recognize that? The fact that you do not honor her simple request not to contact her and yet still want her to see the good in you really baffles me.

Stop contacting her, period. Please note I do not say "give her space" which implies contact her in a little bit.

Leave her alone. If you ever decide to pay her back, just mail her a check and be done with it. As I see it there is no reason to even meet her today over her mom's iron, leave it with your mom and she can pick it up while you're out, or just pop by her mom's home and leave it outside the door.

I really don't see this as a wayward/ betrayed situation, this is a young man with an even younger girlfriend who refuses to accept the reality of a breakup. Even posting here and referring to her as a bgf is strange. She is your ex. It's over.

I do disagree myself with the

You are only seeking to "rug-sweep".

but again do agree with the relationship not heading to R. Which yes of course disappoints me. But it doesn't mean I'm going to give up on my healing.

I never asked for a script, I asked for support, as we haven't really talked face to face. And of course I'm scared and worried about what to say, as I do not want to make the situation any more worse than it already has become.

I never said I have made a lasting change, I said I have made some changes, yes there only small in the fact of realization about myself and my past and the fact that I know its something that it's going to take time its not going to be a quick fix. If you looked at my last post before this you would see that. I don't want to be that "OLD" person as I know those issues are things that will affect me for the rest of my life unless i start making these changes now.

In the end Broken she didn't want to meet up due to the fact I am unable to draw half the money out. I explained to her, that due to it being half term and that i haven't been able to work I work for an agency, so no work no money and with bills coming out and lack of funds at the moment its a safety net, I don't intend to use it or go into it. Its merely so I don't get into debt. She was frustrated and angry which i completely understood and acted calm and considerate explaining the reason and that it wasn't out of selfishness or to be awkward, but when done through messages it never comes across as you want it to.

Absolut I never did contact her, she had contacted myself in regards about the money situation. After she had made contact i replied and mentioned about the item so she was aware. I will admit when she messages I will send a reply and leave it at that.

I was always under the impression that she will have the money back when i have it fully, which was what we agreed on, and that a family member would drop it off.

In relation to the ADHD it affects everyone differently so certain issues for myself might not even apply to you, that is just a realization I know as well as family members confirming this. I am saving it up, but as mentioned earlier in regards too money, I am unable to give her it just yet, as i don't have the full amount. Which I had tried to explain. I am not looking for a reason to be in touch with her, as yes of course I would want to R with her, but I know that it's never going to happen.

The reasons for seeing a therapist, is due to the fact it can jeopardize my future career, and thanks to a personal message from Breaking, there is another way i can IC. I never once said, that i can look on the internet, read and be all better.

Of course I am aware she has the right to terminate, When she asks me to not contact I have accepted that and left her alone, but after a couple of days she will contact me again, and ignoring her only makes the situation worse. So when she asks for the NC i have been giving her that, but she breaks it by contacting myself.

I will be paying her back, i agreed and said that I would when I have the full money, and that a family member will drop it off to herself, as she still has items of my own. Which is what we agreed upon at the beginging

I'm aware that the relationship is over and yes the whole BGF referal will come acorss as strange, even though she is my ex, I had betrayed my girlfriend. So ill refer to her as my Ex, so that people do not get the wrong idea. I understand yes I am young, but that dosn't deny me the right to be able to change, which is the main reason I am on here and to help with healing. When I first posted i stated about my age and the situation and there have been many people who have said this forum can be for someone like me. So yes you might not see it, but it dosn't deny me the right to ask for help.

We have gone back to the NC again, which i will be following, unless she messages me again, and focusing on my healing and getting this money to her asap, Thank you for the posts, its given me more insight and things to think about.

And will be looking into an IC that was mentioned to myself in a private message and get the ball rolling on that, and get some IC to help even more with fixing myself

Again Thank you all for your posts.

Perhaps she actually needs the money, most 19 year-olds are not rolling in cash. And you are keeping your safety net and making her deal with a funds shortage on her end. I sure wouldn't appreciate that at all if I were her.....

[This message edited by JustWow at 6:44 AM, May 29th (Thursday)]

This safety net that i have, is just due to the fact I would be left with no money to live on. I know financially she is more secure than myself with her job, and in regards to the savings that she has. So i understand your point completely just wow.

Also had a little brief chat with an C earlier, and i said id be able to give just the half of what she saved up at the moment. As suggested by the counseller. Im waiting to see how it pans out.

I don't want to be selfish or awkward, im trying to do the best that I can

General reminder to BSs:

The wayward forum is not the place for BS 2x4s. It's okay if you don't agree, or want to express an opinion, but please watch your delivery. DWelshe asked for replies from all, but if you feel that you can't post supportively please stay off the thread.

Thank you.

D

It doesn't have to be half or all.

Like I said, I have ADHD too so I can kind of understand and see what you are doing here in terms of not seeing allll of the many options and possibilities. I do this too. If she is contacting you in regards to money owed, and you don't have it, try to think up all the possibilities.

She likely needs the money, as I'm sure you both do, but maybe she also wants to just get it and be fully over with the relationship.

Also, think about it, if you don't have half now, what are the odds of you having all of it in a few weeks? Realistically? And it's not really fair to make her wait a year or so.

Have you considered sitting down with a notebook and figuring how much you could give her per month for the next 6 or 8 months or year to cover it? Yes I know you wanted to do it all at once but in regards to what you said about you basically working for an agency and your future looking uncertain, getting started on a realistic goal might brighten your mood a little. No it won't be the grand gesture of paying her all at once but it will still get the job done.

If you are able to send her an envelope with $20 (ok, uk equivalent) and a note with a payment plan drawn up within the next week, you will likely feel better. If you get a good job in a couple of months, you can always send her a big check then. But this would be a show of good faith and at least some extra cash for her, plus IME people with ADHD get really stressed putting things off "until". Get started in a small way.

I can see from your profile and posts a lot of impulsive behavior, then shame... this cycle really jumped out at me. I know you said you are going to see a counselor. Numerous people diagnosed with ADHD as children have other mood disorders, especially different manifestations of depression and anxiety, that begin to manifest heavily in early 20's and worsen if left untreated. Sexual impulsiveness is highly typical of people with ADHD- Bipolar dual diagnosis. So is excessive drinking and substance abuse, as it's one of the only thing that can calm you down. These are just random thoughts I am having as I read your profile.

So.... having taken rx med's for ADHD before, I would agree with your mom, they are horrible. You might benefit from seeing a psychiatrist so you can try some sort of mood stabilizer.

I know you are concerned about your future profession.

But...

that is a profession you don't even have yet. And you are not able to pass the exam.

I can't speculate on why you haven't passed the exam. I had to take my GMAT twice. The second time I did great. My psychologist gave me amazing study tips in regards to how often to study, how long to take breaks, and a bunch of other stuff.

My point is... I have seen both a psychiatrist and a psychologist and both helped me tremendously. Be careful putting off getting help for something *that is already happening* for something that you hope will happen.

I see a lot of impulsive behavior in your posts.. you are at the age where it will start to show and make you more noticeable. (For example, being drunk at a party at 19 is no big deal. At 24, people start to ask you if you're supposed to work tomorrow)

If you don't mind me asking, what is it about seeing a therapist that might hurt your future profession?

After speaking to an IC - I messaged back stating that I will be able to give £100 of it now, to which she threw back in my face at first. But has now accepted that, and that I will also get some of my items back.

I understand its to be over with the relationship fully, as even with myself, That money also connects me to my past self which im trying to change myself from.

Well having half it now, within a month, i should realistically get it to her by the end of June. I just been saving £50 out of every wage slip. Even though its been sitting in my account. I didn't anticipate the half term coming so quickly as to why i said i was unable to give it right at this moment.

I would agree in regards about the ADHD in the 20's alot of it does make senese. After speaking with that IC earlier today, they should be able to start doing sessions costing only £25 a session so i need to work that in financially.

So that will be the likely route that i will take.

In regards to the exam everything was perfect i just dropped a little on the maths, i guess my mind was in other places at the time. But they strongly advised that i come back as they saw the potential in myself. With it being on my medical record it can impact for the trade that i am applying more. Which they wont look into the actual reason they will see the choice words and shut me out.

Yes i have noticed that as well myself. Which will be something i bring up in IC

BBF here, please feel free to take what you need and disregard the rest!

I understand yes I am young, but that dosn't deny me the right to be able to change

In fact I'd argue that you are fortunate to have caught this now rather than 10, 20, 30+ years down the road when life adds complications. Although I know it doesn't feel like it, you have been provided a golden opportunity that is crucial to your future happiness; what will you do with it?

When I first posted i stated about my age and the situation and there have been many people who have said this forum can be for someone like me. So yes you might not see it, but it dosn't deny me the right to ask for help.

There are plenty of younger people here who regularly get very moving and compassionate support, I personally haven't been privy to any form of ageism or condescending advice based on marital status (or in our case lack thereof). Gently, I think it would merit a personal investigation as to where this internal label is coming from which might facilitate and foster more openness within your mind with regards to advice given.

Ok, with bookkeeping out of the way simply put: there is nothing more important in your life and for your future happiness than focusing on this mess with the unwavering full force of your intellect and heart. Now that the light has shone upon it there is no putting it back into the closet for another day, there is no giving half of what you are capable of giving, there is nothing but focus on this matter. When I say this, I do not mean your ex and how to fix things with her. You already know the extent of what you can do and it is merely to be a man of integrity now and settle what you promised and to fully and unequivocally respect her every request; you likely will talk to her very very little if at all in the future. You absolutely MUST release the outcome, you are no longer doing this for your ex, but rather for yourself. This is not done with the hope that she will provide you with the external validation that you crave and give her nod of approval for your change. No, the path you are on is done for yourself so you can find happiness as you will not find full happiness within yourself until you resolve this. As a BS, if my WGF was doing this to get me back rather than to become a healthy person, even only partially, I'd run for the hills; if you aren't doing it for yourself the changes will not stick.

So where do you begin? On this forum sage advice regarding the why is given frequently and I am fully a subscriber to that principle and encourage you to walk this challenging and long path. But there is something else that I believe you also need to do concurrently; define your values. Values are a set of beliefs that guide your decision making and are crucial to inner contentment which is something we all seek. Take for example the moral dilemma:

You catch a mother stealing food, she has no money for food and her children are starving? Would you turn this mother in for doing so?

Without a clearly defined value set, you will make this choice emotionally; by acting purely upon your momentary feelings you get lost in the fluctuations of temporary emotional states that will make you violate your deeper values (which you have not defined, but they are there I promise you that). If instead you have a clearly defined value set and act upon it, your feelings will in short time follow suit and you will be living an authentic life of contentment. Were your choices that led you here based on your values or your momentary emotional states? How content did they make you? There are much deeper moral paradigms and this could be a discussion far deeper than the span presented here, but I hope you are able to dig deep and I mean REAL deep to not only find your values, but to also live by them. Best of luck and I hope the best for you.

2 suggestions for IC...

go into your first session prepared, just write down in advance what you want to talk about and kind of organize it. The first session is very important

Also

tell the therapist about your concern that having certain diagnoses etc written down can torpedo a future career. They understand. And they can work with you on that. Also if there are things you have done that you don't want them to write down in their notes but you want to talk about (anything illegal or sketchy) ask them not to write it down

Mercilessly and Abolsut Thank you for you comments - I greatly appreciate the comments and they were a real good insight. And will make a note down of what i want to discuss and more.

It was in a previous posts in this one, that age was brought into it, thats where that came from, it wasn't an internal label personally.

No i have accepted the fact that I am doing this for myself. As I don't want to be that type of person anymore. I want to be able to show the loving and care that someone deserves, not be cold and distant and let my frustration get the better of me.

I believe what brought me here was both in some regards. In that yes I was emotional and looking for answers into the why and how I can change. But now that I look at everything and myself. I want to continue and become a better person. As all i can see in the future if i continue with this, is going to be unhappiness. I hope i can bring this up in IC

My ex ended up asking me to come over and meet her to talk. As we were still talking over messages.

I started off by saying that i appreciate that she is even talking to myself right now, and that i know it is difficult due to the pain i caused her.

We talked about the relationship and what I had done wrong and i accepted all the mistakes I had made and what I should have done during the relationship. We talked about the money situation and about returning my items.

Towards the end we spoke more about her feelings and that even though she is going out with her friends when she is on her own, she does think about all of this. Which i understood and told her even though i know its not exactly the same, i am the same. All i do think about is this and her and everything that has happened. And that i want to understand her feelings and said about giving me that chance. And even that i no there is no chance of us getting back i still want to do what i can to fix this. And that us talking face to face was better than what can be said in a message, as we didn't argue or shout. We just talked, and yes i will admit there were points where we both were upset. And i said that it is a positive thing, as us arguing over messages wasn't getting us anywhere, it was just making it all worse. I said i will just contact her in regards about the money and will leave her alone and said goodbye and that if there is anything that she wants to speak about or say that i am there. Because i do love her, and that even though i know how much she hates me and i disgust her part of her loves me to. I know it just doesn't go like that. I didn't want it to be manipulative, I said it to let her know i care, and that if she does need questions answered or anything that i am there.

But i made an idiotic mistake, I didn't say it as i left. Was again i wanted to say thank you again for talking to me because i know how difficult it was. I tried to call and she hung up which is understandable so i sent her a message saying.

Thank you for talking and meeting with me. I know how difficult it was

I realize that i shouldn't have done that, because I had went back on my word and because my emotions were running high i did that. Its patronzing in a way and sounds false i realize, that I am now going to leave that as the last message and that I will follow the NC unless she contacts me not replying to that message. But if she specifically asks me something.

If she doesn't i will only send her a message saying in regards to when i have money, and to go about giving it to herself, we agreed that when i have the money that i will contact i won't bring up that message i sent as i do not want to re hash that and bring it back up, its not needed and would be pointless.

I will also say when in regards with her returning the items,that she can keep them, because i understand now after speaking to my step-mother about this that at the time she seems them as a gift i gave her and she has done nothing wrong and I'm taking them away. So I will not ask for them back. I wish i could tell her that now, but i know that will only piss her off more due to I'd be breaking the NC even more than i did with that message, so i will wait to say that when i message her in regards of giving her the money back. This is something i talked about with my step-mother

For now I just need to focus on fixing myself and healing. And letting her get on with her life and me getting on with mine. I plan to be going to my local gp tomorrow in regards about free IC, and to start making more progressive steps to my healing.

[This message edited by DWelshe at 7:03 PM, May 29th (Thursday)]

Went to my GP/Doctor to arrange IC hopefully I will be contacted soon, I want to start asap. They got my details and I have also contacted other IC's

[This message edited by DWelshe at 6:59 AM, May 30th (Friday)]

[This message edited by DWelshe at 6:26 AM, May 30th (Friday)]

It's good you have arrangements with IC's.

It sounds like you are close with your stepmother and that she gives you good advice.

Have you had any other long term relationships besides this girl?