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the whys...again...yes again

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hopefulmother posted 5/30/2014 11:49 AM

I was just thinking about how often I hear many BS talk about what they weren't doing in their relationships. You know...the usual...not having/giving their spouses enough attention, time, and date nights.

I am all for owning your half of marital problems. Hell, I did it too. Sure...there are plenty of reasons for those affairs...but never an excuse.

Lately though, my mindset has changed. Sure, I am human. I make mistakes. I am not perfect in our relationship.

But, you know what? It is a relationship. A partnership that consists of TWO (yes count them) TWO people. Both equally responsible for setting aside time, attention, and date nights. If the WS was not getting their needs met by the BS, then the WS was just as responsible for setting up date nights too. They were just as responsible for communicating their unmet needs.

What I do see, is that most of the time (and I say most not all) there is one spouse that is immature and one that is mature. One spouse (usually the BS/mature one with better coping skills) does all the work. Sets up date nights and takes care of the WS...till circumstances come along that they get tied up (kids, sickness, career issues, whatever). Then the WS (immature) acts like a two-year old that can't take care of themselves or make themselves happy in a productive way that doesn't involve walking all over other people and taking an easy way out.

Sure, not all fit this bill. For mine-it was the perfect storm of so much plus the above. But, you know what...he could of made a damn date night himself with me if he was so bored.

Just a vent day Sometimes I just get angry and feel like I was married to a child that needs their hand held and their ego boosted at the age 40 like a child.

Unagie posted 5/30/2014 11:54 AM

I in his eyes am the wayward because EA's aren't real. I set up vacation, date nights, job interview for him, did more then my half of cooking, cleaning, made sure he didn't sleep all day and was kind of productive, made sure he kept up with familial obligation. Then i fell into a deep depression and used shit coping skills. Yes i tried to talk about it, i fucking cried one day because i set up a date and again he was late. He freaked out. None of it was a reason for what I did but I more then own my half of the issues pre A he needs to own his too.

Razor posted 5/30/2014 12:05 PM

Me and WW always had date nights before and after kids (we got a sitter). We took vacations together - europe several times while MIL took care of the kids.

I always fussed over V-Day and birthdays and made big deals of Halloween and Christmas.

I also worked long hours though. And I was frequently distracted by my hobbies. Our M wasnt perfect. I wasnt perfect. But neither was she.

Looking back now. It was about the time that her EA started that I sensed there were problems in our M. I doubled down on working to make it better. I quit my hobbies. Tried to work less too. Gave her gifts. I did all I could think of. But the more I did the more she pulled away.

Now post Dday. I still feel I am doing most of the work. WW just seems to want to forget her EA-PA happened at all.

NoDoormat posted 5/30/2014 12:09 PM

Looking back now. It was about the time that her EA started that I sensed there were problems in our M. I doubled down on working to make it better. I quit my hobbies. Tried to work less too. Gave her gifts. I did all I could think of. But the more I did the more she pulled away.

Now post Dday. I still feel I am doing most of the work.


Same here. But they had already checked out, right, so our pull just has the effect of pushing them further away, right? Sigh. Another double-bind.

Broken613 posted 5/30/2014 12:15 PM

What I do see, is that most of the time (and I say most not all) there is one spouse that is immature and one that is mature. One spouse (usually the BS/mature one with better coping skills) does all the work. Sets up date nights and takes care of the WS...till circumstances come along that they get tied up (kids, sickness, career issues, whatever). Then the WS (immature) acts like a two-year old that can't take care of themselves or make themselves happy in a productive way that doesn't involve walking all over other people and taking an easy way out.

I agree with this 100%. It's just another form of destructive self-medication - if that makes sense.

seethelight posted 5/30/2014 12:31 PM

Hopefulmother:

I resonate with your post in its entirety.

I don't think you are imagining things.

There are books in which the psychologists mention that in the majority of affairs, the person who cheated was immature and was the taker in the relationship, while the faithful was a giver.

Others talk about how some waywards start to see their spouse as a parent figure, if they act too responsibly with money or other issues, and they rebel like a teenager.

The detective who examined our computer resurrected my husband's deleted emails. In some of them, the OW and my husband were complaining about minor, even silly things about their respective spouses.

They sounded like two teenagers complaining about their parents refusing to let the stay up 'till midnight on a school night

Almost all the MCs we saw before settling on a good one, noted that my husband seemed to be the selfish one.

He was the spender, I the saver. His idea of a good marriage, according to them was unrealistic, mine realistic.

My husband also came from a family where when he was one year old, his sister drowned in the family pool.

Thereafter his parents treated him like an emperor. They refused him nothing. Whatever he asked for he got, whether or not they could afford it.

The counselors said this gave him a very exaggerated sense of entitlement.

After Dday, two of the many crazy excuses he gave for the affair, was that he felt "entitled" and "everyone else was doing it"

Both sound as if something a teenager would say.

Like my mom would say to me when I said: "everyone was doing it"....she would say, "so, if everyone else were jumping off the San Francisco bridge, does that mean you should do it two?

seethelight posted 5/30/2014 12:31 PM

Hopefulmother:

I resonate with your post in its entirety.

I don't think you are imagining things.

There are books in which the psychologists mention that in the majority of affairs, the person who cheated was immature and was the taker in the relationship, while the faithful was a giver.

Others talk about how some waywards start to see their spouse as a parent figure, if they act too responsibly with money or other issues, and they rebel like a teenager.

The detective who examined our computer resurrected my husband's deleted emails. In some of them, the OW and my husband were complaining about minor, even silly things about their respective spouses.

They sounded like two teenagers complaining about their parents refusing to let the stay up 'till midnight on a school night

Almost all the MCs we saw before settling on a good one, noted that my husband seemed to be the selfish one.

He was the spender, I the saver. His idea of a good marriage, according to them was unrealistic, mine realistic.

My husband also came from a family where when he was one year old, his sister drowned in the family pool.

Thereafter his parents treated him like an emperor. They refused him nothing. Whatever he asked for he got, whether or not they could afford it.

The counselors said this gave him a very exaggerated sense of entitlement.

After Dday, two of the many crazy excuses he gave for the affair, was that he felt "entitled" and "everyone else was doing it"

Both sound as if something a teenager would say.

Like my mom would say to me when I said: "everyone was doing it"....she would say, "so, if everyone else were jumping off the San Francisco bridge, does that mean you should do it two?

seethelight posted 5/30/2014 12:31 PM

deleted this because it was a double posting of same post.

[This message edited by seethelight at 12:32 PM, May 30th (Friday)]

hopefulmother posted 5/30/2014 14:21 PM

Seethelight

Others talk about how some waywards start to see their spouse as a parent figure, if they act too responsibly with money or other issues, and they rebel like a teenager.

Yes. I have often thought that they feel like that too. The same way we felt about our parents as teenagers. We may make remarks to our peers about how lame our parents are and may even rebel or treat them harshly. Because we are more worried about our peers approval or relationships. We loved our parents, but we didn't always care about their opinions. We could do what we wanted, because we always knew that our parents loved us unconditionally.


I think our WS acted the same way. They got to the point where they felt they could do whatever, because they believed that we (like their parents/in a parent role) loved them unconditionally. They no longer cared about what we thought...they just cared about what their peers (AP's) thought. They already had us bagged.

My husband was the "golden boy" who could no wrong in his mother's eyes. She was sick with lupus. So the family was centered on her all the time too. Which meant the kids took care of her and they did not do many of the things normal families did due to her becoming a victim/marter to her illness. She has a huge sense of entitlement. I brought that up two days ago in MC. It is a learned behavior from his mother.

[This message edited by hopefulmother at 2:28 PM, May 30th (Friday)]

hopefulmother posted 5/30/2014 14:38 PM

Unagie I hope he wakes up soon. Even with all the stuff in the library, he still believes there is no such thing as an EA?

Razor I sure hope that she didn't rugsweep for all these years.

NODOORMAT Yep, like seethelight stated, our additional love when we sensed a crisis just pushes them away like a parent cracking down and trying to show us love and support. You just wanted them to give you space. Problem is...we BS don't want to be your damn parent and never asked to be. Though I can see that we help that along by being more responsible and I guess in a sense enabling them to be immature for probably a long time before the A's ever happened. For normal people what we did would have been love. For an immature/broken WS...it was parenting. We just never knew it.

NoDoormat posted 5/30/2014 14:53 PM

Ay. Well, I thought I had given up the parenting role, but it looks like when I gave it up in one area, my H found a way to rope me back into it somewhere else. This is just hideous. I never imagined I would be so hurt again in my life.

annb posted 5/30/2014 14:54 PM

There are books in which the psychologists mention that in the majority of affairs, the person who cheated was immature and was the taker in the relationship, while the faithful was a giver.

^^Spot on in my personal situation. It was always about the WH and his needs and his schedule and his job and his hobby. Always. Not a compromising bone in his body. Extremely selfish. I was the responsible one...for the home, the finances, the kids, etc......

They no longer cared about what we thought...they just cared about what their peers (AP's) thought. They already had us bagged.

^^^Bingo! Yep, same here. He was more concerned about how he appeared to his colleagues, his friends, his hobby co-enthusiasts. What I thought pretty much never mattered.

hopefulmother posted 5/30/2014 15:20 PM

<<<nodoormat>>>

AnnB I would be pissed if it was like he was having an A with the rest of the world at my expense. I hope it is not like that anymore.


*BTW my fWH has stepped up the game and doesn't act like a child anymore. But, of course...I wised up and don't ever let him. Though we are still struggling with him taking the lead every once in while. Being a STAHM, I think it is hard for that to happen. Not just on his part, but on my part for letting go. After all...I am the one at home. I know the routines and schedule. But, we have been discussing in MC that it would be nice for him to make plans sometimes. Taking and initiative.

Unagie posted 5/31/2014 01:11 AM

Hopefulmother yes he refuses to ever read here. He has apologized for the pain caused but that's all. I had to forgive him to be able to focus on my own actions. The point of my post though is that I was the responsible one. I took care of the joint money, vacations, jobs, dates, bills...really rent was the only thing he had to go get out the bank. He took care of his personal finances. I never minded any of this and share it only to say in his eyes I am the wayward but I was the one who made sure we got by and did what was necessary to live and love for the majority of us being together. Although I freely admit I did more then fuck up at the end.

Hope2B posted 5/31/2014 02:43 AM

What I do see, is that most of the time (and I say most not all) there is one spouse that is immature and one that is mature. . . . Sometimes I just get angry and feel like I was married to a child that needs their hand held and their ego boosted at the age 40 like a child.

^^^^This!!!! In our early years, this dynamic was more balanced equitably and things were good. As he aged, and felt more and more entitled, he came to the conclusion that he could step outside of the marriage and everything would still be okay! He's going to be 65 this year, and this Parent-Adult-Child thing has been a focus a number of times in IC and MC. Every time he behaves like a child, it automatically puts me in the role of a Parent moreso than an Adult, and now I call BULLSHIT on him. My modeling adult behavior apparently never really worked for him. So much for leading by example.

Others talk about how some waywards start to see their spouse as a parent figure, if they act too responsibly with money or other issues, and they rebel like a teenager.

^^^^ and THIS!

we BS don't want to be your damn parent and never asked to be. Though I can see that we help that along by being more responsible and I guess in a sense enabling them to be immature for probably a long time before the A's ever happened. For normal people what we did would have been love. For an immature/broken WS...it was parenting. We just never knew it.

^^^^AND THIS! His sisters and parents always came to his rescue whenever he got into trouble. He was the golden child, the only son and the baby of the family. He is Mr. Happy Go Lucky and even when he has his brief times of regret for he A, he just bounces back and is Mr. Happy Go Lucky.

Chinadoll30 posted 5/31/2014 06:09 AM

Nodoormat, I feel the same. I had stopped parenting WH like I did early in our relationship. I let him step up. But he found the one area where he could still hit me. And I agree with this post entirely. WH felt so neglected and rejected, yet do you think he put any effort into resolving or working on those feelings between us? Not at all.

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