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Wayflost posted 6/3/2014 15:01 PM

To say that affairs are crazy making is an understatement. I'm not just talking about the time leading up the disastrous choice, nor the time during the affair, nor the period just after discovery. No. I'm talking about all of it.

Right now I'm in the stage of my healing where I feel completely insane. Everything I once was sure of is now turned upside down. My family was highly functional dysfunctional family. I doubt anyone ever suspected the depth of inappropriate behavior and poor boundaries that envelope our lives. Narcissism, HPD, over sexualized behaviors, enabling, not taking proper measures to protect each other or ourselves.

I've lost my image of the family I now know I never had. My BH has lost the wife he now knows he never had. But I am her too... How is it possible for me to be both things? How is it possible for my family to be both things? How do I find sanity and move forward with just the things I want to carry with me?

I also find myself resorting to anger when I see something on here that walks the edge of my newly forming boundaries. A woman calling my BH "honey?" HELL NO! I don't care if there is a generational gap, a cultural thing (my mom is a southerner), or a genuine desire to comfort. He is not her honey. It's identical (in my mind) to some of the things said by me or to me during the storm of crappy thinking that lead up to my affairs.

A wonderful SIer pm-ed me once early on to point out that I had misunderstood an SI custom. I was running around on here "hugging" everyone. OOPS!!!! It was not my intent, and I believe I got through all of my posts and un-hugged all men. There are a few times I have "hugged" women, and I have left some of those in place. But I get angry when I see other women offer them to my BH (virtual or not) and when I see him offer them to them. We haven't talked about it. But you would think that in this type of forum we would all at least try to be cognizant of it.

I don't know if what I'm writing makes any sense. I'm angry, and confused, and apparently in a lot of pain. I am not trying to compare or equate my experience and feelings to my BH. There is no way I will be in his shoes, unless I am placed there. But I am recognizing that there are poor boundaries held by parties other than me in my relationships.

God... I'm just all over the place. Sorry. Thanks for reading.

ETA: Oh and terms of endearment!? Not cool. I'm done with them, and I certainly hope that unless it's me calling him one my BH is too.

[This message edited by Wayflost at 3:03 PM, June 3rd (Tuesday)]

Aubrie posted 6/3/2014 15:56 PM

I hear you. I understand.

There was a whole virtual hug discussion a few months back. The general consensus from BS was that this is a devastating blow. Much like being in a disaster zone, losing a house in a fire, a horrific traffic accident, people reach out for a hug. Not in a sexual way, but as a form of comfort. Human contact. "Hey, I'm here. I understand. I'm so sorry. Here's some compassion." Its a comfort from the shockwave.

I'm not much of a hugger anyway. Whole story on that. I'm starting to get better. But I have a rule for myself. No hugs for men. (Unless family) That includes in person or virtual. Most of the guys around here know, Aubrie doesn't do the hug thang, but I'm open to fist bumps. Cause that's just cooler than a handshake and doesn't cross the hug boundary.

Eta: Have the conversation with your husband. It would benefit you both. Really. Not in a confrontational way. But as a general discussion. Those types of talks are my favorite. We talk about our prior feelings, our current feelings, how they have changed, how they affect us both now, and whats the plan going forward. Its a bonding experience for us both.

They feelings of insanity? Totally understand. Where EVERYTHING has changed, but EVERYTHING hasn't. Its like a bizarre Alice in Wonderland experience. Our experience, soul searching, and new perception changes everything. Its crazy making.

Just take deep breaths wayoflost. One step at a time. Its ok. The crazy feelings will subside. As you become more accustomed to your new life, as the new behaviors, thoughts and patterns kick in, as time heals you, you start feeling more normalled out. Its different from the old normal. Its a new normal. But its peaceful.

[This message edited by Aubrie at 4:02 PM, June 3rd (Tuesday)]

20WrongsVs1 posted 6/3/2014 16:24 PM

Anger is your go-to emotion, and it's gonna be a struggle for you to discard that security blanket. I totally get it. Righteous indignation was mine. At least, it was righteous from my warped POV.

Anger probably served you well, in one or more tough situations as a child. My righteous indignation can be identified by the phrase, "How dare she!" You know, "How dare this idiot drive 10 miles below the speed limit, when I have places to go?!" or "How dare he speak to me like that, I'm not a child!"

I get where it comes from. "How dare you trick me into doing that!" and although I didn't use those words, I was able to say "No more" to POS pedophile abuser when I was only 6 or 7. So righteous indignation became my best friend. My shield. Problem is, when your toolbox holds only a hammer, the world looks like an occasion for nails.

But I get angry when I see other women offer them to my BH (virtual or not) and when I see him offer them to them. We haven't talked about it. But you would think that in this type of forum we would all at least try to be cognizant of it.

In other words, "Women shouldn't be hugging my BH!" Did I rephrase that accurately?

((Sweetie)) I'm gonna offer you a different perspective. (See what I did there? ) Actually yes, they should be hugging him. Their upbringing or environment indicates that hugging him was the right choice for them.

You are choosing to anger yourself over actions of others that are beyond your control.

Wayflost posted 6/3/2014 17:03 PM

The anger is in the recognition that something "harmless" and intended to comfort is not harmless. When pulling apart the layers of my behavior and experience I see the "harmless" actions I engaged in, truly thinking it was ok to hug someone not my BH, and recognizing that it was just one more element of my poor boundaries.

BH often wondered at my willingness to hug. I like hugs, and I have hugged many people in my professional life as well as personal life. The issue for me is recognizing that it is not appropriate to hug my coworker any more than it is appropriate for a complete stranger to hug my BH. Does that make sense?

What makes me angry is that it is a boundary I now recognize. I do not believe that a virtual hug here from a male WS who was "appropriately" supporting me would go over well either. I would be expected to draw a thick line in the sand. Yes, because I am the person who had affairs. Yes, because I am the person who is that f***ed in the head.

But I want those boundaries. I want to be safe. I want to feel safe too. And I don't. I've made my M unsafe.

That's why the hug and the "pet" name made me angry. Surely once we see the danger in the pattern of behavior it behooves all of us to change.

Can you honestly tell me you would have no problem with someone walking up to your husband calling him honey and hugging him? Because I can't, because virtually it pisses me off. Because we can't talk about the relationships he's had that blurr and cross boundaries because we aren't done talking about me and mine yet.

Yeah sure, that girl you were friends with in high school tells you 4 years later about getting her lady bits pierced because that's what you tell your male friends. I'm fairly certain the only reason a girl tells a man that is so that she has an opening to take her pants off for him. I am a WW I would know. Oh, and that shouldn't upset me even though the two of you were clearly too close the last time I saw you together. Right. Because I went and slept with someone else I don't get to complain when the few good boundaries I have are crossed. Sure. Because that makes any sense.

I'm sorry. It's an unresolved issue. Add on top of that feeling crazy and not knowing which way is up... I'm having a bad day.

Thanks to both of you by the way.I hold both of you up as models of where I am heading.

20Wrongs, it isn't as much of a problem when you do it to me. We share a gender, you want to call me sweetie and hug me? Not crossing established boundaries. That, and you have been so helpful to me. I would accept a hug from you, even in real life.

[This message edited by Wayflost at 5:05 PM, June 3rd (Tuesday)]

20WrongsVs1 posted 6/4/2014 09:23 AM

Can you honestly tell me you would have no problem with someone walking up to your husband calling him honey and hugging him?

Yes. In fact, I would be perfectly content if a topless stripper sat on his lap for an hour saying, "I love you, Mr. 20! Run away with me, darling!" Seriously. He and I would laugh about it later.

Wayf, nobody can piss you off. You are doing that to yourself. Being bothered by someone hugging BH? That's a valid and understandable reaction. Getting pissed off about it, and blaming your anger on others' porous boundaries? That's your choice. Nobody can "make you mad."

Wayflost posted 6/4/2014 09:52 AM

I am picking up what you are putting down. I can choose how I react, and need to pay attention to why the instinctual reaction is anger. I might need to go back to the beginning of Nonviolent Communication again...

Yes, anger is my go to emotion. I spoke with my Psychologist about it at some length yesterday. Three weeks ago I finally got in to see the clinical psychologist I've been trying to see for months. I am now regularly on her calendar. She's another voice pushing me to do things that so many, you all here, my MC, my IC, my BH, have all encouraged as well.

My Psychologist says that it's time for me to stand up. That I have spent too much of my life crouched in a defensive position just trying to survive. She believes that is the source of my anger. I think she may be right.

I did discuss the reaction I had with my BH about the interaction, and how I reacted to it. We also discussed briefly the feelings it brought up about past situations. It wasn't a full talk, but it was MUCH improved over where we have been.

I still say that affairs are crazy making though.

[This message edited by Wayflost at 9:53 AM, June 4th (Wednesday)]

Aubrie posted 6/4/2014 10:03 AM

I still say that affairs are crazy making though.

So glad you were able to finally get your appointment! That's excellent. Hopefully she will help you make better sense of the crazy and work thru the defensive issues.

20WrongsVs1 posted 6/4/2014 13:54 PM

Are affairs crazy-making, or is crazy affair-making?