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User Topic: . If you love them - divorce them.
mchercheur
♀ 37735
Member # 37735
Default  Posted: 4:10 PM, June 6th (Friday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I had this pasted in my journal. Thought it might help some of the newbies.
It was written by LonelyHusband


Newbies - if you love them, and they are not remorseful, have a think about starting a divorce. OK, so this one is going to take a little explaining, because it's very counter intuitive and divorce would surely be the last things on our minds.
Here's your checklist

You

1. Feel your life has imploded
2. Are devastated
3. Cannot understand how to survive the next day
4. Desperately want to save the marriage
5. Believe you love your spouse
6. Have something in your gut telling you your spouse should be doing more
7. Feel like you would "know" if they were completely remorseful and just don't feel it.

Them

1. Are defensive
2. Do what you ask, but only because you get so upset.
3. Don't go above and beyond, don't amaze you with how much they do to help you
4. Get angry or defensive
5. Use any of the following

. I'm confused
. I don't know if I love you
. I need to find myself
. You're being too demanding
. I probably had the affair because you....

If they above rings true, divorce should at least be on your agenda of options.

Right then I suppose I'd better justify this.

Look, why would you stay married to such a person? not only did they devastate you, but they are continuing to hurt you. There's no reason to be married to a person like that! You want to be married to someone that protects you, treasures you, loves you, and makes you feel loved. The person you thought existed didn't. that person is selfish, cruel, heartless. They are a liar, an adulter. Who wants to be married to a loser like that? What they have done is perfectly reasonable grounds for divorce. so do it. Divorce them immediately.

You have to accept the reality of your wayward spouse's situation. They are confused about whom they love, whom they want to be with. The worst case scenario is that they will continue the affair, and because the affair is addictive, and makes them feel good, they will do this in all situations possible, no matter what the effect on you is. You are probably thinking that your situation is different. It really isn't. If the worst case scenario doesn't happen then your spouse is going to exist in a sort of limbo, not knowing where to turn. All this time your soul will be dying because you will not be able to comprehend that the person you love didn't come running back into your arms once you caught them or the affair was exposed. It does happen, but it's very, very rare. Much more likely is that you will both exist in a limbo, not knowing what will happen next, or how to move forward. The WS will be confused, and the BS will be utterly devastated. This shit needs to end, and it will ONLY end when the BS says it ends. If your WS says they need time, or distance, or space. If they say they are confused, they are lost, they "regret" the affair, or "reg that you got hurt" then they DO NOT GET WHAT THEY HAVE DONE TO YOU and will NOT get it until you put your foot down and say enough. It's terrible enough to be the victim of infidelity, but the sad reality is that somehow you have to dredge up the strength to fight for you spouse if you want them back, despite what they have done to you. Fighting means tough love. It means putting an end to their nonsense. It means waking them up to what they are about to realise. Or even letting them go if they do not wake up. It means instigating divorce proceedings.

Beginning divorce proceedings has a number of benefits for you

1. Self Respect.
Infidelity trashes your self respect. Claim some back by taking control of the situation. Now the relationship is taking a path YOU have defined, that YOU are in control of. As a new BS you will crave control, crave rationality. Beginning a divorce will give you this control.

2. A bullshit time limit
An unremorseful wayward spouse is a nasty piece of work. They will lie, manipulate, and continue to betray you. They will protect themselves and their lover at your expense, and the expense of any children. They will tell you everything you need to hear, but only when you drag it out of them in agony. They will be difficult, argumentative, angry and defensive. Basically, they are unpleasant people. Critically, they will CONTINUE to be unpleasant people until YOU do something about it. They will sit on the fence, wrapped up in their own feelings, whilst your soul dies. You may think that YOUR spouse is different. They arn't. beginning divorce proceedings puts a finite time limit on their bullshit. They can lie to you, make you feel like YOU are the bad guy, give you every excuse in the book as to why they are not stepping up and fixing the marriage, but the clock is ticking.When they clock expires, you are free of all teir bullshit and can start the healing process.

3. Vision
A BS's world is very dark. We wonder how to survive today, never mind tomorrow. There appears to be no future. We can see no life without misery. We can see no freedom, no light, no smiling, no joy. All ahead is dark. Start divorce proceedings. Now you have a future. It may not be the future you had ever hoped for, but it's a future. Sometime to aim for, something to plan for. Something that will force you to get some sleep so you can organise your life.

4. Healing
If you are with an uremorseful wayward spouse, things are going to get worse, not better. You are certainly not going to start healing. that happens when they become remorseful, or you are free of them.

so divorce the bastards. They are not worth being married to.

However.

Maybe. Just maybe. Maybe that pathetic excuse for a spouse isn't the limit of their potential. Maybe they have it within them to actually be the person you thought they were. Hell. Maybe they can be MORE than you or they ever thought. The wayward spouses on here who are remorseful are incredibly self aware, rounded human beings. They stand no nonsense. They examine themselves for their faults relentlessly. They make you want to stand up and applaud. They make you want to be a better man. Wouldn't it be nice if you were married to a person like that. THAT would be fucking awesome. Well, remember why you fell in love. you believe that person is worth more, or you wouldn't still be reading this post. Filing for divorce MIGHT just make them

1. Realise what they are about to lose
2. Take a long hard look at themselves
3. Recognise that their bullshit, lying, and manipulating is pointless, because the clock just keeps ticking.

there are countless tales on here, including my own, where nothing happened until the BS retook control of the relationship. The WS sat on the fence happily destroying the BS, wrapped up in their own little drama, UNTIL the BS decided they had had enough and took control.

So, you start divorce proceedings. what are the possible outcomes.

1. They sort themselves out and start to "get it"
Keep the proceedings going until you are damn sure you have someone who is remorseful, not someone who is just playing up to get you to stop. You can always restart the process. In the UK its awesome because there are several points where you can basically press the "pause" button, and then start it rolling again. However, if they really do realise what they have lost and start to fight for it, then you can kill the process. That's what happened for me, and I'm convinced it's what a lot of people need to be doing.

2. They get angry and leave
Wave them goodbye with a smile. Good riddance - all you have done is start a process you would have to have gone down in the end anyway, so all that's happened is that you have shortcutted the process, saved yourself from tolerating their craziness, and retaken control of your life. Hell, they may even come crawling back. It happens. what happens after that is of course, up to you.

3. They continue lying and cheating
Well, sounds like a good reason to divorce someone to me.

Look, I am VERY pro marriage. I believe that with a remorseful wayward spouse, and a forgiving Betrayed Spouse, marriages can be stronger and more fulfilling than they ever were before the affair, because neither partner is now taking the other for granted. Both are working at the marriage. I would rather get to that point without the agony of betrayal, but hey. However, I am NOT pro foggy remorseful spouse. It breaks my heart to read post after post from betrayed spouses who have just been stabbed in the heart and still have the courage to want to save their marriage, whilst their WS is still in foggy lala land. It's sickening. Nothing ever changed until the BS retakes control, so when I say "divorce them", what I really mean is "retake control of your life, and put time limit on the pain".

so, if you are with an unremorseful spouse, who is hurting you, think about divorcing them. It's an acknowledgement of the reality of the situation you have been forced into. It doesn't have to go the full term, but either way it's a win win situation.

People always say "dont make any rash decisions for six months". But that is assuming both people are back on board. If your spouse is still hurting you by lying, minimising, getting angry or defensive, then no-one expects you to put up with that for six months. you're being emotionally abused. Put a stop to it. Give it a time limit.

I love my wife with all my heart. However, I wish I had started divorce proceedings against her the moment I realised she was not remorseful. We might have made it, we might not, but I would not have been put through six weeks of hell that he left me far more traumatised than the original affair did. If you love them, then be prepared to let them go. It's your best shot at getting them back.


Me: BW
Him: WH --Had 7 mo. PA with COW;
Married 20something years with kids
Trying to R

Posts: 1465 | Registered: Dec 2012
MovingUpward
♂ 14866
Member # 14866
Default  Posted: 11:39 PM, June 6th (Friday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Personally I've never liked this approach. I feel it is too much shoot first them aim. Blow your marriage up before you know.

Look at all things LonelyHusband lists for a BS. These things are from a simple action but from one where the causes are wide and varied. I always liked the approach to seek first to understand. Because if you don't any action you take you may totally regret. We are talking about marriage and to me a marriage is not trivial enough that I want to necessarily be a one violation and done kind of person. Some folks may be this way but I wasn't. I was one that took the time to be sure and when I was ready to move from R to D, I was steadfast in that decision no one could sway me.

Look, why would you stay married to such a person? not only did they devastate you, but they are continuing to hurt you. There's no reason to be married to a person like that! You want to be married to someone that protects you, treasures you, loves you, and makes you feel loved.

I've only been married once and while I would have loved to always been protected, treasured, loved, . . . The reality is that life hits you and it isn't always there in a moment. When I had cancer and underwent Chemo, I wasn't the spouse that could provide all of those things for my spouse. I did my best but I know my best then was not my best ever. So for me waiting to understand also allowed my spouse an opportunity to show me if she could be who she had been.

If your WS says they need time, or distance, or space. If they say they are confused, they are lost, they "regret" the affair, or "reg that you got hurt" then they DO NOT GET WHAT THEY HAVE DONE TO YOU and will NOT get it until you put your foot down and say enough.

Putting your foot down is just an option. Some folks actually have success with 180, some have success with MC, some have success with family intervention, but very few I know have had success with filing for divorce. Filing for divorce tends to be more like blowing up what was left of your marriage. And if your spouse concedes to R if you file for divorce, you are still going to have to wonder if they truly want a divorce or if they are just appeasing you for the moment. True change will still take time and effort for the wayward to prove themselves.

Beginning divorce proceedings has a number of benefits for you

1. Self Respect.
Infidelity trashes your self respect. Claim some back by taking control of the situation. Now the relationship is taking a path YOU have defined, that YOU are in control of. As a new BS you will crave control, crave rationality. Beginning a divorce will give you this control.

Self-respect is something you give yourself. I'm not sure how someone else's actions would trash your self respect unless you really didn't have it in the first place. Do you lose self-respect for trying to reconcile instead of divorcing? I think that is some people's view points. Others will look at their vows and see "for better or worse" and to violate that would be a trashing of self respect.

2. A bullshit time limit
An unremorseful wayward spouse is a nasty piece of work. They will lie, manipulate, and continue to betray you. They will protect themselves and their lover at your expense, and the expense of any children. They will tell you everything you need to hear, but only when you drag it out of them in agony. They will be difficult, argumentative, angry and defensive. Basically, they are unpleasant people. Critically, they will CONTINUE to be unpleasant people until YOU do something about it. They will sit on the fence, wrapped up in their own feelings, whilst your soul dies. You may think that YOUR spouse is different. They arn't. beginning divorce proceedings puts a finite time limit on their bullshit. They can lie to you, make you feel like YOU are the bad guy, give you every excuse in the book as to why they are not stepping up and fixing the marriage, but the clock is ticking.When they clock expires, you are free of all teir bullshit and can start the healing process.

I've been here 7 years and I've seen amazing things happen.

The wayward spouses on here who are remorseful are incredibly self aware, rounded human beings. They stand no nonsense. They examine themselves for their faults relentlessly. They make you want to stand up and applaud. They make you want to be a better man. Wouldn't it be nice if you were married to a person like that. THAT would be fucking awesome. Well, remember why you fell in love. you believe that person is worth more, or you wouldn't still be reading this post. Filing for divorce MIGHT just make them

and almost all of these examples are people that came here foggy and weren't really remorseful. Many still trickle truthed and didn't totally accept the damage that they did. I don't know of an example here where someone filed for divorced and that made their wayward spouse remorseful. A wayward will become remorseful when they hit their rock bottom and Wayward spouse A may reach their rock bottom when they find out. Wayward B might take some time to hit and Wayward spouse C may never get there. Everyone is different.

3. Vision
A BS's world is very dark. We wonder how to survive today, never mind tomorrow. There appears to be no future. We can see no life without misery. We can see no freedom, no light, no smiling, no joy. All ahead is dark. Start divorce proceedings. Now you have a future. It may not be the future you had ever hoped for, but it's a future. Sometime to aim for, something to plan for. Something that will force you to get some sleep so you can organise your life.

Yep my world was dark but when it is dark you don't have to torch the place. I little spark of light can help guide you. My healing didn't magically appear when I filed nor when my divorce was final. I still am not sure that my healing is complete even now. It's pretty darn far along though. My point is that your healing path is not totally dependent on your marital status. There is much that you can start on healing before you deal with what to do with your marriage.

4. Healing
If you are with an uremorseful wayward spouse, things are going to get worse, not better. You are certainly not going to start healing. that happens when they become remorseful, or you are free of them.

Your healing begins when you close down the influence your unremorseful wayward spouse has on you. My XW has never been remorseful. I could be around her all the time at this point and things wouldn't get worse. Because I have healed. I don't let her influence my state. This is where the 180 can be beneficial.


So, you start divorce proceedings. what are the possible outcomes.

1. They sort themselves out and start to "get it"
Keep the proceedings going until you are damn sure you have someone who is remorseful, not someone who is just playing up to get you to stop. You can always restart the process. In the UK its awesome because there are several points where you can basically press the "pause" button, and then start it rolling again. However, if they really do realise what they have lost and start to fight for it, then you can kill the process. That's what happened for me, and I'm convinced it's what a lot of people need to be doing.

2. They get angry and leave
Wave them goodbye with a smile. Good riddance - all you have done is start a process you would have to have gone down in the end anyway, so all that's happened is that you have shortcutted the process, saved yourself from tolerating their craziness, and retaken control of your life. Hell, they may even come crawling back. It happens. what happens after that is of course, up to you.

3. They continue lying and cheating
Well, sounds like a good reason to divorce someone to me.

Ironically the 3 possible outcomes are the same if you don't file for divorce. They continue to do the same, they leave, or they improve.

People always say "dont make any rash decisions for six months". But that is assuming both people are back on board.

This advice is given for a number of reasons. Even LonelyHusbands says

You

1. Feel your life has imploded
2. Are devastated
3. Cannot understand how to survive the next day
4. Desperately want to save the marriage
5. Believe you love your spouse
6. Have something in your gut telling you your spouse should be doing more
7. Feel like you would "know" if they were completely remorseful and just don't feel it.


Does that sound like someone in a good state to make a giant decision that could send them down an unknown path. For me it wasn't, for you it might be the path. Also like I said earlier. I've rarely seen the remorseful spouse show up on SI as the perfect remorseful spouse. Six months is a great time to allow a wayward spouse to prove themselves. Six months also allows a betrayed spouse to sort through the devastation and find the foundation. Another reason to wait is to get your strength back. Divorce isn't cheap and it usually isn't easy peasy. The divorce took as much out of me as the d-day. I am glad that I took time to start healing me so that I was strong to weather the attacks of my XW and her attorney.

Honestly I feel that and direction chosen is a crap shoot as to what the outcome will be. I do feel that once you file for D it is hard to undo the damage and reconcile, so I used it as a last resort. YMMV Overall my point is that everyone must choose the path that is right for them, but they really need to be healed enough to clearly see and understand the situation well. This is why I like to point people to the 180. For if you can't 180 your wayward spouse, how do you think you'd be able divorce them. The 180 is far easier to endure then a divorce process.


AKA Moo

Think of the haters in your life as sandpaper; they’ll scratch you up time and time again but in the end you’re polished, smooth, and spotless..while they end up useless

We make a living by what we get, but we make a life by what we give.


Posts: 53368 | Registered: Jun 2007 | From: Big Blue Nation
5454real
♂ 37455
Member # 37455
Default  Posted: 11:56 PM, June 6th (Friday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

+1000 Moo. While I will sometimes advocate for *filing* for D, my usual suggestion is to wait. 6 months to a year. However, that is predicated on two things. First, a WS who is not still actively pursuing the A and second a BS for whom the A was not an instant *dealbreaker*. In the first 4 cases it was for me. This time, not so much. 26+ months after D-day, 18 months in R. Yea, it took 8 months for remorse to show up. If I had filed for D, guarantee I would be by now.

Strength to all just entering the process. You will need to choose your own path, the advice you get here will be varied. The best advice for newbies? *Take what you need and leave the rest*. Only you know what *fits* your circumstances.

Strength


BH 51, WW 42
DS 23(Mine),SD 21,SS 21(Hers),DS 9 Ours, DGS 3, DGD 1 mo
D=Day #1 5/04EA (Rugswept)
D-Day #2 3/10/12, TT til 3/13/12
Married 10yrs
“I have no love for a friend who loves in words alone.”
― Sophocles, Antigone

Posts: 3345 | Registered: Nov 2012 | From: midwest
HeBrokeVows
♀ 43252
Member # 43252
Default  Posted: 12:57 AM, June 7th (Saturday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I just want to add another reason not to wait 6 months plus is when financials are being messed with. That was my case and I needed to file to protect myself and my children. Of course there was no remorse and he did nothing to get me back. After I filed I realized he had already begun another life with this person, just took me a while to gather evidence. There was my reason to continue in the divorce even if the fog lifted. And I was a person that believed marriages can make it through an affair. Not mine!

I also realized a lot of what the original poster stated. My spouse was no different than the other WH. He wasn't the same person I married, he was capable of doing the most hurtful horrendous things to me and the kids. So I needed to act in the best interest of me and the kids. He was no longer protecting us, I was.


Dday March 12, 2014. Found out my husband of almost 10 years was having an affair, first emotional then physical for 6 months.

Posts: 617 | Registered: Apr 2014
doggiediva
♀ 33806
Member # 33806
Default  Posted: 9:38 AM, June 7th (Saturday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I agree, don't file for divorce unless or until you see it as your best option to survive this mess..
Divorce is not child's play..


Don't tie your happiness to the tail of somebody else's kite

Posts: 1428 | Registered: Nov 2011
wonderpets
♂ 35901
Member # 35901
Default  Posted: 6:57 PM, June 7th (Saturday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I agree with OP. He wasn't taking about "one violation then done", he was talking about obvious lack of regret.

If for no other reason, file to protect yourself financially. Waywards often enter complete breakdowns, financial, personal, and many times including other pregnancies.


Posts: 213 | Registered: Jun 2012
justinpaintoday
♂ 42858
Member # 42858
Default  Posted: 8:11 PM, June 7th (Saturday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

interesting post


I never realized you could be in this much pain and not be dying.

Posts: 700 | Registered: Mar 2014
gonnabe2016
♀ 34823
Member # 34823
Default  Posted: 9:50 PM, June 7th (Saturday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Personally I've never liked this approach. I feel it is too much shoot first them aim. Blow your marriage up before you know.

The marriage has already been shot to shit by the betrayal.
LH's post doesn't say to file for divorce if your spouse cheats -- it says to file for divorce if your spouse is unremorseful about the cheating.
I wholeheartedly agreed with LH's post when he originally posted it and I still agree with it now.

Overall my point is that everyone must choose the path that is right for them

And in my 2.5 years here on SI, I've never -- not once - seen a person file for divorce 'just because' a bunch of people on the internet tell them to.

Ironically the 3 possible outcomes are the same if you don't file for divorce.

I kinda disagree. You say: they continue, leave, or improve. I don't get it.
Where is the BS' power or *say* in this? It sounds as if you are advocating for a "let the WS make the ultimate decision" outcome. A situation where there is a WS who is continuing or has left is a situation that *screams* to have a divorce filed. That WS has quite obviously already *left* the marriage -- the D filing is just the shot that puts the horse out of its misery.

My XW has never been remorseful. I could be around her all the time at this point and things wouldn't get worse.

Things can always get worse. My original Dday was 6/08. Monster had an opportunity to 'make things right' until mid-year 6/12. Every single time that I told myself that things couldn't get worse....they did. And the 'getting worse' continues -- it is a downward spiral. Why? Because he's unremorseful. The 180 didn't *work* with him because of his hard-wiring. He was too disordered or dysfunctional to see that I was trying to carve out a place for *me*......the projection of his *own* behaviors onto me was overwhelming and offensive and intolerable.

When I had cancer and underwent Chemo, I wasn't the spouse that could provide all of those things for my spouse.

{{{Moo}}}
Marriage is a 50/50 partnership overall.
The *overall* means that there are times when one spouse has to *give* 90%......but, in the end, it should all balance out.
Undergoing treatment for cancer is a definite situation where the other spouse should expect to be carrying more of the load. OF COURSE you probably weren't bringing your spouse flowers or making sure that her pillow was fluffed. You were dealing with a life-altering situation and it was her responsibility to be at your side, supporting you in YOUR time of need.

While I will sometimes advocate for *filing* for D, my usual suggestion is to wait. 6 months to a year.

If the WS seems to honestly be trying...then I think the *no rash decisions* advice is prudent because of the shock and the emotional rollercoaster that follows. Imo, if the A is a deal-breaker, the person isn't going to be finding SI. That person is going to be handling his/her business at the courthouse when it opens.


"Oh, what a tangled web we weave when first we practice to deceive." - Sir Walter Scott

In my effort to be *concise*, I often come off as blunt and harsh. Sorry, don't mean to be offensive.


Posts: 8260 | Registered: Feb 2012 | From: Midwest
Sad in AZ
♀ 24239
Member # 24239
Default  Posted: 5:04 PM, June 8th (Sunday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I tend to agree with this post, but I don't think it belongs in JFO. Hell, most of the people in JFO really haven't 'found out' anything--they're either suspicious or have just been blindsided.

What is one of the prime tenents we preach here? PROTECT YOURSELF. That's what the 180 is about; that's also what filing for D is about. Neither is to try to push your Wayward off the fence; that MAY happen, but it's not the prime reason.

This is good information for BSs with unremorseful or actively cheating spouses--the people for whom mchercheur posted this chestnut. I just think it would do more good in General.


Hallelujah! Holy shit! Where's the tylenol?

Posts: 20582 | Registered: Jun 2009 | From: Upstate NY
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