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How do I have "zero transparency" or "fake transparency"??

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LostTime posted 6/10/2014 09:47 AM

I'm really struggling with this...

My BS keeps saying I'm not transparent, have zero transparency or fake transparency.

I struggle with avoidance and fear and she has had to push me for things she shouldn't have, a true full disclosure (which she now doesn't accept is everything because of TT), I gave her passwords to accounts but not on my own again.

I offered to have software on the computers and my phone, she declined saying there's always a loophole or way around it and I could just go deeper underground.

I have created this steaming pile in front of me. I struggle with writing her my full thoughts and feelings about what I think about everything and what she has said or questions she's asked that I have clouded the answers to.

I am committed to being accountable and transparent, but what am I missing. How can it be enough for her to see?

tfkeel posted 6/10/2014 10:02 AM

I am committed to being accountable and transparent, but what am I missing.

What you're missing is that you cannot, at one time, be "committed to being accountable and transparent"
while asking the question "how much is enough".

A "true, full disclosure" means ALL of it. The good, the bad, the ugly. And ALL AT ONCE. Holding nothing back.

Every time she catches some new detail that was not expressed to her, she will recognize that you have NO COMMITMENT to being accountable and transparent.

That you are still in the "trickle-truth" mode.

tired girl posted 6/10/2014 11:01 AM

1. Have you written her a timeline of all of the events that happened and offered it to her?

2. Have you written down all of your passwords to all of your accounts and given that to her? Also maybe you need to just install those things and let her know that they are on there if she ever wants to use them.

TrulySad posted 6/10/2014 17:06 PM

Everything that tfkeel wrote. Everything.

The betrayals kill the trust. The TT crushes any hope for believing in the wayward again.

I'm not saying you can't regain in. I'm hoping for my own life, you can. But I can tell you, being a BGF, after so many lies...the only way we can protect ourselves is to believe everything we're still getting from you is still lies.

If I had more advice to give on top of what others have said, I'd say to go to extremes. I'm very serious on this one. I never trusted my WBF after everything. But I didn't want to live a life of having to snoop. What I found was even if he was doing right by me, I couldn't believe it. So he took it upon himself to lock his phone down with a password that only I know. He programmed it so nothing can be hidden. You can install keyloggers on computers and let her set the password. When it comes to work, do whatever it takes. I don't know what you used to help you think about those things and figure out how to expose it all to her. If money was used, find a way to account for every last cent.

This really is your job. Not hers. And while she may tell you she doesn't want it, do it anyway. Maybe she'll. check. Maybe she won't. Either way, she's worth the effort.

Aubrie posted 6/10/2014 17:11 PM

Be proactive. Sometimes that is the struggle. They don't want to have to *ask* for honesty. Pull yourself up by the bootstraps and do it on your own.

Write a timeline. Dates, times, acts, your thoughts and hie you rationalized, the whole 9 yards. All passwords and PINs. For everything. Install keylogger software of your devices. Just do it. And give her the usernames and passwords. Take the PIN off your phone. Install a GPS app on it. Do everything in your power.

If she chooses to act on checking keyloggers and accounts, she will already have the info and wont feel conflicted for asking for your passwords.

Its a time thing. It takes lots of positive, consistent actions on your part, to rebuild her confidence and trust. Give her space and time. Be consistent. Don't be defensive. Be open. Be proactive.

[This message edited by Aubrie at 5:11 PM, June 10th (Tuesday)]

JustWow posted 6/10/2014 17:11 PM

You can do that no-holds barred time line, and then schedule a polygraph with a reputable examiner that you will willingly submit to the truthfulness and completeness of disclosures to be tested.

LostTime posted 6/10/2014 21:23 PM

tfkeel - thank you for your response.

I made the mistake of withholding and downplaying in the first disclosure I wrote earlier this year.

Recently, I rewrote it and didn't downplay or leave anything out. I know I put it all out there. She believes there's more, like I am suppressing it or have convinced myself something more didn't happen.

I'm not crazy. I know that there are no more women, no more ugly secrets. What I am saying is that knowing this can be enough for me, but not her... That is what I'm struggling with.

LostTime posted 6/12/2014 00:47 AM

Tired Girl -

1. Have you written her a timeline of all of the events that happened and offered it to her?
2. Have you written down all of your passwords to all of your accounts and given that to her? Also maybe you need to just install those things and let her know that they are on there if she ever wants to use them.

1. Yes - I did give her a final full disclosure chronologically. My mistake was giving a false incomplete disclosure a few months prior. And TT from the beginning of the separation. I have shot myself in the foot - she won't believe it is everything.

2. Yes she has all my passwords and email accounts, access to my phone records, everything I can think of. Problem is I didn't do it all on my own and because I've been a lying POS she doesn't believe there isn't something underground. Doesn't matter that I know there isn't - she won't believe it.

veronique12 posted 6/12/2014 13:32 PM

TT can be the final nail in the M's coffin. It is so damaging. You're experiencing the fallout of TT. She will always believe there's something else you're withholding. Put yourself in her shoes and think about how you'd feel--and then multiply that by 10.

Now you have to start to help her rebuild trust by being consistently truthful over a very long period of time. Show her how important she is to you. Show her she is worth the enormous amount of effort that you are going to have to put forth. She will be working too, but you need to step up and take emotional risks for her when she is triggering or angry or depressed. Be vulnerable, answer her questions calmly with no defensiveness, and she may ask the same things repeatedly. Be there for her. Ask her how she's feeling. Apologize for specific things you have done to hurt her and the M (not just a general "I'm sorry."). Ask her what she would need from you to feel more secure and then do those things. Put the software on your devices and computer. Even if she says she doesn't want them b/c of loopholes, do it anyway to show you're not hiding anything. While she may not check it, she will know that she has the option to if she is feeling suspicious.

Read M books together and discover what her emotional needs are and then make every attempt to meet them. Getting the Love You Want (Hendrix) is a great book and has some really good tips on wooing your spouse. Show her she's special b/c I can guarantee she doesn't feel that way right now. Have you read How to Help Your Spouse Heal From Your Affair? If so, that's a really practical book with great advice.

islesguy posted 6/12/2014 14:56 PM

I second veronique12 statements. I lied to my wife from before we even were married about my cheating on her 20+ years ago (denying it the whole time) and it has been trickle truth ever since. She found some evidence of me and another girl 10 years ago which I downplayed and continued to TT even through a false recovery attempt while I was in therapy. Only in the last year+ has the TT stopped.

I am not sure what can be done at this point except honesty and reassurance.

[This message edited by islesguy at 8:18 AM, June 13th (Friday)]

islesguy posted 6/13/2014 08:08 AM

My BS just shared this with me which is a really good account of Trickle Truth and reads like it was specifically written about me.

veronique12 posted 6/13/2014 13:16 PM

Great article, islesguy. Thanks for sharing.

LostTime posted 6/13/2014 15:02 PM

veronique12 - thank you, I was so very blind, but I am dealing with the wreakage of TT now. It has killed so much potential.

I was such a selfish fool. I just don't know why I couldn't see it. She is totally closed off now, whenever I ask her how she's feeling she just says "I'm fine" I know she's not, I see it in her eyes. I'm not living in the house anymore now, but even yesterday I knew something triggered her, but she won't talk about it. It is like it's everything. She won't give me anything and I seem to just be missing everything. I know it is my job to figure out and I won't give up - she doesn't deserve this "shitstorm" as she calls it.

LostTime posted 6/13/2014 15:22 PM

islesguy - thank you for the article link. My TT has created a bottomless pit and in the chasm that my selfishness, lying and cheating created. I have made everything infinitely harder - she has zero belief in me and anything I say or do.

Last night she texted me a question asking about a contact in my phone - a woman prospective client that really was just that. I answered her questions, I have all the emails to back up the correspondence, but why didn't I delete the contact if it wasn't a current client? I didn't think of it. FAIL. I didn't hold back, I didn't get argumentative, I answered completely and it doesn't matter - she won't believe me. Something that has no further story to it is still staining everything because it doesn't add up to her.

JustWow posted 6/13/2014 19:30 PM

Did you ask her if she thought a polygraph would help her?

LostTime posted 6/14/2014 12:21 PM

JustWow -

Did you ask her if she thought a polygraph would help her?

Yes. She's said it won't necessarily mean anything. She's said I could have convinced myself of lies and it won't reflect a true result.

I have just screwed things up so badly with all the selfishness and lies. I couldn't see myself for what I was and what I was doing to stop feeding the flames. Things could be so different right now. I'm afraid I am realizing these things too late. It's heartbreaking all over again.

jamcray posted 6/20/2014 02:10 AM

I think Veronique nailed it on the head for me as a BS.

The more we find out, the more we think there is to know. It's one thing to get it all at once - but when it comes in bit by bit, we keep waiting for the shoe to hit the fan again. I need to read more about TT. Haven't heard that term before, but it sounds exactly like what I'm living.

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