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healingroad posted 6/12/2014 18:51 PM

D-Day was back on Christmas Eve but I'll post here in Just Found Out because this is my first post and I'll start from the beginning. It's been a terrible five months and I could use a little help as I hover on the edge of D and R.

For now, I'll say that a few days before Thanksgiving Day, a friend of my wife who was also unhappy in her marriage showed her Ashley Madison and told her how to use it to have an affair. My wife selfishly jumped on the opportunity. She posted a profile a week later and was off to the races. Four weeks after that, after having dated six men and had an EA with one of them, and just starting a PA, I found out. It was Christmas Eve at 2am when I just couldn't contain my suspicion and I looked in her email. There wasn't much there but I did find her AM profile and some bits of messages between her and some other men.

After a middle-of-the-night showdown she agreed to stop but didn't. I have so much more to say, so much dealing with false R and TT, but for now let's just leave it at:

Ashley Madison is an evil creation that has no place in a respectable marriage. I despise it. And I despise my wife's weakness and selfishness in giving into the suggestion.

yme32313 posted 6/12/2014 18:55 PM

Dating sites are the worst. They should never have them but then again our SO should know better.

Better4it posted 6/12/2014 19:51 PM

Hi Mhca,

I can relate. My WW also used AM to meet her harem of cheaters.

healingroad posted 6/12/2014 20:32 PM

One of the early bombshells to explode was that the girlfriend who recommended AM was a marriage counselor, and justified it by saying it helped her own marriage by convincing her that her husband wasn't so bad compared to the men she met on AM.

This rationalization enraged me to say the least.

positively4thst posted 6/12/2014 20:56 PM

I understand and also loathe sites like AM. However, treading lightly here, the issue isn't with the sight, it's with the people who choose to use it. You cannot spend your life hiding temptations from those you love. I don't think they did what they did because of AM, rather it was just the outlet they chose to deal with "whatever". If it wasn't AM, believe me, it would be something/someone else.

They are broken and you can't/shouldn't fix them. What you should do is step back and take care of and protect yourself. We all deserve love and respect in our lives and we all need to enforce boundaries. My thoughts are with you as you travel this rocky road.

Badhurt posted 6/12/2014 21:09 PM

Well, if she has not stopped using AM, what are you going to do about it other than hate the site. Because if that is the case you are now married to a woman who is not only cheating on you but is flaunting it in your face.

Don't see how that can be acceptable to you. So I suggest you develop a plan to get yourself out of this situation.

mike7 posted 6/12/2014 21:10 PM

did you "out" the marriage counselor to her husband, and to the state licensing board? I'm sure the state licensing board doesn't recommend that their counselors recommend Ashley Madison as a preferred recovery tool.

if your wife hasn't stopped, divorce her. there's no point in even trying with someone who won't stop the cheating.

even if she has stopped, let her know that you may never forgive her. she has to earn the trust. Let her know that you may tell her friends, family, everyone she knows what happened if it doesn't work out.

And even then.... you may decide you don't want to be married to someone who willingly signs up to be fucked by strangers. Some here have successfully recovered from that. But their WWs did a ton of work, and are still working. If you WW isn't doing the work, chuck her.

[This message edited by mike7 at 9:11 PM, June 12th (Thursday)]

Badhurt posted 6/12/2014 21:17 PM

Mike got it right. So next time your wife gets dressed up and goes out you know what she is going to do. You gonna live with that ????

healingroad posted 6/12/2014 21:18 PM

WW stopped the cheating after I found more evidence that the affairs (one physical, one emotional, one internet only) had continued. This was April 15th of this year. I told her either come clean or retain counsel. I believe she has stopped but still can't trust her so I'm hyper vigilant and pretty much an angry mess. I've had to push her very hard to even start to comprehend the damage she's done.

[This message edited by mhca at 9:19 PM, June 12th (Thursday)]

Badhurt posted 6/12/2014 21:21 PM

Did you confirm she withdrew the ad. You might want to put a fake ad on there yourself to see. Some have done that successfully. How can she expect you to trust her. There are a lot of other ways for her to cheat so you better get to MC or you will be in Sherlock Holmes mode for a long time.

And by the way, if she is still going out with and friends with the woman her told her about the site you can assume she is still up to no good

Has she changed her contact information???

[This message edited by Badhurt at 9:22 PM, June 12th (Thursday)]

tryingagain74 posted 6/12/2014 21:47 PM

Hi, mhca. I'm sorry that you've joined our subset of BSs who discovered that their WSs affairs were brokered by Ashley Madison. Trashley is a horrid site, and I wish they would get sued for something so that they had to take the site down due to bankruptcy, but like others have said, it's our WSs who made the cold, deliberate choice to join it.

It sounds to me like you need to visit a lawyer and focus on the 180. You need to take care of yourself since your wife clearly doesn't have any of your interests at heart. She won't stop, so you should certainly "free" her to pursue whatever pathetic fantasy she's embroiled in.

As long as you keep up your end of the marriage, she'll enjoy her cake eating for as long as possible. She gets the dependable husband and stable home life along with the exciting escapism of her As!

Yeah, that's enough of that. As folks on here like to say, it's time to close the bakery!

ZedLeppelin posted 6/12/2014 22:26 PM

If there wasn't AM, there would be another site where like-minded people could contact each other and meet up.

Your wife chose to cheat. However it is clear that her friend played a part. Have you exposed your wife's friend considering she is a counselor?

1. Get tested for STDs.
2. Go see a lawyer to find out your options.
3. Expose the affair partners to their own wives/girlfriends.
4. Do the 180.
5. Cut your wife's friend from your life.

Badhurt posted 6/12/2014 22:36 PM

And tell your wife's friends spouse who introduced your wife to the AM site. He deserves to know

healingroad posted 6/13/2014 00:27 AM

So I have one benefit I think: she's a pretty crappy actress. I didn't know what was wrong before DD#2 but it's pretty obvious something was. I'm pretty confident that - at least the last six weeks - she's been faithful.

We've been in MC - three hours this week, yikes. Usually one hour per week. She's done the reading I ask and she's subjected herself to interrogation from me.

My big concern right now is her attitude and seriousness. She defended the name of this girlfriend bitterly until I dragged it out of her. She lets her shame get in the way of confiding in me and telling me all the details. She's not nearly as proactive as I think she should be. It's like pulling teeth, and I'm tired of having to lead so much on this.

I asked her this week if she was willing to do "whatever it takes" to save the marriage. She said "I think so." Hmmm. She then asked me if I was willing to do whatever it took. I said that I might be at some point, but I'm not going to set myself up to play the chump again. I'm not going to set myself up just so she can tear me apart again.

I guess thats pretty sad. If she can't earn at least a bit more trust then I'm headed towards D. But I'm still allowing for the possibility of R. It just makes me sick thinking of opening my heart up and having it ripped out again.

healingroad posted 6/13/2014 00:27 AM

Btw, I did confirm the AM account was deleted - they charge $19 for that, believe it or not. And this girlfriend is NC except that we do see her occasionally due to kids sports.

I think she honestly wants to do better but is still in denial about the gravity of the situation, and she allowed herself to become corrupted due to her selfishness. She won't get uncorrupted overnight, meantime I worry and obsess.

Even though I'm very open to D right now it still breaks my heart a little every time she says or does something that tells me she still doesn't get it.

[This message edited by mhca at 12:35 AM, June 13th (Friday)]

painfulpast posted 6/13/2014 00:39 AM

She then asked me if I was willing to do whatever it took.

LOL - by that, I hope she meant are you willing to not leave and file for D.

NOTHING she did is your fault. NOTHING. She may have had issues, but she decided the way to deal with her issues was to destroy the marriage. This is all on HER.

If she thinks you need to work on anything but not leaving right now, she's still delusional. I recommend you read the 180. It will help you detach from her.

I'm sorry. Cheaters are really a selfish bunch. She's in the thick of it. She either gets herself out or you need to decide when you're done.

trynhard posted 6/13/2014 05:30 AM

Ashley Madison = evil

I hate it too..

Evil People will reap what they sow.

tushnurse posted 6/13/2014 07:21 AM

Welcome MHCA, You will find this place is a great support, and has tons of folks wanting to ease your pain, and help you to not make some of the same silly mistakes we all did in our journey.

First things first - It sounds like your wife has one foot in and one foot out, which is impossible to move forward to R, and makes D seem like an unreasonable option. You have done well to ask for some very basic things to get started.

Your right, she doesn't get, or wont admit the gravity of the situation, and the pain she is causing. MC is a great thing, but with a WS that doesn't get it, it can be a great big waste of time, and money. Is she doing IC?
She has to get to her WHY - and then work on fixing that broken piece within herself. When she starts doing this, you will slowly (and I mean slower than a snail) start to regain trust.

Since she is so wishy washy, what are you doing to put a time limit on this soul sucking limbo state? She needs to decide if she is in or out. Many WS are happy to plug along in limbo land, because it doesn't really effect them the way is does the BS, for the BS it is extremely detrimental to the self esteem, and causes nearly daily heartache.

I had a spouse that wanted to R from Dday on, and was regretful, not remorseful, and willing to answer questions, and willing to do pretty much anything I asked, but he would angry and frustrated, which I didn't get. Of course he was breaking NC with his AP, and still thinking like a WS. It was NOT until I pushed his ass of the fence really hard that he truly got it, and that regret changed to Holy Shit, WHAT HAVE I DONE???? type remorse. This is when we really started moving forward.

It's very hard to see regret vs remorse as BS when you haven't had the experience to distinguish the difference, but I think you get that you aren't getting what you really need.
It's even more difficult to make someone get it. It is scary as hell to throw down the gauntlet, and demand the respect, love, and commitment that we all deserve.

I can tell you many of us who did manage to save our M's, and heal and get to a new happy, have had to be willing to lose the M to save it (a phrase you will see around here).

So I would encourage you to think long and hard about what would really push your wife off that fence, of I'm not sure if it's worth it. For each of us it was a different experience. For me it was calmly with ZERO emotion, handing him my rings, and telling him I was done, pack your stuff and get out now. For others it was filing, for others it was outing the A to the world.

I do know that you are going to come out the other side of this stronger, smarter, and braver than you ever thought you could be. This will not define you.

Keep reading, Keep posting.

((((and strength)))

craig2001 posted 6/13/2014 10:38 AM

girlfriend who recommended AM was a marriage counselor, and justified it by saying it helped her own marriage
That angers me enough and is disgusting.

No MC in this country should be giving advice like that. That kind of crap belongs in rag newspapers.

Did you report this MC to your state regulatory board or whomever does that sort of thing there. That is pathetic.

In other words, this MC has ruined your marriage and your life!

Some will say it was your wife's choice, but when someone goes to a supposed authority, they believe them. So when a MC says this will HELP your marriage, you believe them.

This is sort of like going to a lawyer and the lawyer telling you to do something that will ruin your life. But most people do what their lawyer tells them to do.

6 weeks is not much time. Many times affairs stop for 6 weeks only to pick up again. Your wife has a great deal to learn about all of this.

Ask your wife how she thinks now, was the MC was correct, HAS this helped her marriage or ruined it?

Give her the book Not Just Friends to read, it might help her understand some of the incredible damage she has done here.

And of course, you already know, you have to watch her every move, read every text, gps the car, etc.

What a way to live based on wrongful advice.

Badhurt posted 6/13/2014 10:53 AM

Like Craig just told you, you are in a position where if you are not snooping big time you will get burned again. She now knows how easy it is to hook up with guys online, and while AM gets a lot of publicity, believe me it is not the only site where she can do this.

Obviously, you caught this fairly early even though she was very active for a short time. If she does not commit to your marriage, this is going to happen again for the same reason it did the first time, which is she has checked out of your marriage and likes the excitement and ease that she did this.

I hope you have seen an attorney to find out your options. If you are technologically good, there are a lot of ways to snoop if you want to put in the effort. But you better know what you are going to do when you catch her again if sh does not start to show she wants to be with you.

Remember, you did nothing wrong here. SHE CHEATED.
How long do you want to have to be in snoop mode.?

[This message edited by Badhurt at 10:54 AM, June 13th (Friday)]

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