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WH says my L is lying

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nekorb posted 6/24/2014 22:47 PM

So -

I accidentally engaged today. WH sent me kind of a PA inflammatory text asking why my L did this and that and didn't say this or that blah, blah.

Basically, he was accusing me of not doing something I said I did. I reiterated twice that I did it so he went to, "Well, your L must be lying then because he told my L blah, blah, blah..."

Questions:

1. What should I have done when the initial texted questions came through? Should I have ignored? I have a hard time ignoring him when he poses a direct question.

2. Do I tell my L about this exchange? He has warned WH's L twice, this last time in writing, that he has instructed me not to discuss anything with WH outside of issues directly relating to the children. PLUS he accused my L of lying!

thoughts?

devistatedmom posted 6/24/2014 22:58 PM

You probably shouldn't have engaged, and just let your lawyer know what he's saying. Your lawyer could talk to his lawyer about whatever the thing in question was. Don't worry. If you just said, I did do it, then dropped it as he ranted, it wasn't major. It's hard to ignore when they are calling you a liar.

SBB posted 6/24/2014 23:15 PM

Crickets all the way. You forward his text to your L and let the Ls sort out anything that needs sorting out.

You pay your L to deal with the crazy - you don't have to anymore.

Dreamboat posted 6/24/2014 23:45 PM

Crickets even to direct questions UNLESS it is a direct (and relevant) question about the kids or about finances. Total crickets regarding ANYTHING to do with the D at this point -- let your L handle that. If you feel pressed to answer, then respond only with "Feel free to contact my L with your concern."

Now, what is a relevant question? "How much is the xxx bill?" "What time should I pick up the kids for visitation?"

And examples of non-relevant questions: "Are the kids being good?" "Why won't you answer me??!!" "How could you be so careless to ...blah blah?" "Why are you using so many minutes on your cell phone?"

The point is that he does not deserve your time. At all. Give him none, except what is minimally required.

Rainbows posted 6/24/2014 23:49 PM

When I went NC with my ex, I found that texting was the last way he could get a response out of me.

It was much easier to ignore emails and phone calls. There's something about texting that makes it so easy to respond impulsively.

If you can't block him from texting because of communication about kids, then label him differently in your phone. Call him "Do Not Answer" or "Wait Before Answering," something to remind you each time.

Try not to read or respond to the texts immediately. Set strong boundaries with yourself about handling his texts.

With regard to letting your L know, I would. Your ex is trying to manipulate you and cast doubt on your L. It's a strategy to weaken your position.

Also, your L needs to be fully informed of what's going on to do his job effectively.

suckstobeme posted 6/25/2014 04:11 AM

"Please direct all questions that don't have a direct impact on the kids to my lawyer."

Done.

Stop taking the bait and don't ever discuss what you discuss with your lawyer with him. That's privileged, confidential information to which he has no rights. If you share anything with him, it could eff up a strategy that your lawyer is trying to employ. You hired a lawyer to fight these battles. Step out of the way and let him do his job. Your ex is doing nothing but trying to take advantage and exploit your insecurities. Fuck him and stop engaging.

Catwoman posted 6/25/2014 04:20 AM

Straight out of the handbook. Mine has, over the years, sent me such nuggets as "Your attorney left the firm" (she didn't) and other such nonsense.

When he starts talking about your attorney, you don't have to answer him.

I guess the real question is why do you think you should? You are opposing parties to a lawsuit--there is nothing he needs to know from you about your attorney. That is why *he* has an attorney.

Essential. Communication. Only. Essential does not involve ANYTHING regarding your legal counsel or reasons why you did or didn't do ANYTHING.

"Feel free to ask your attorney to contact my attorney regarding this" is all he needs to be told.

He's STILL getting ego kibbles from you.

TIME. TO. CLOSE. THE. BAKERY.

Cat

nekorb posted 6/25/2014 06:25 AM

You all are SO right.

I guess I answer because I know if I don't that later on I will get, "Since you are ignoring me, blah, blah, blah..." but it will be prefacing something actually appropriate for us to discuss.

I'm afraid that he will try to use my non-response against me somehow if we end up in court.

Of course, I don't know how a non-response could have hurt me in that instance, now that I think about it. I could have forwarded it to my L with whatever thoughts I had about it.

I guess I'm thinking the emotional backlash would have hurt. I need to learn to ignore that too.

Chalk up another lesson learned.

tesla posted 6/25/2014 06:30 AM

Your go to response --

Ask your lawyer.

And then go CRICKETS.

Your lawyer doesn't care that some guy is calling him a liar.
While ex-shat was pro-se, he would tell everyone that would listen that my lawyer agreed WITH HIM! And that my lawyer told him that she had no idea where I was coming from...etc. I didn't bother my lawyer with this because it's bullshit.

If, after you've gone crickets, he continually texts you or escalates then I would let the L know. If it's a text convo that you are engaging in...I'd not bother for now but do save them if in the event you need to show a pattern of behavior on his end.

Catwoman posted 6/25/2014 06:38 AM

No judge is going to ding you for refusing to respond to his inane texts.

If he asks you something about children or finances that he truly needs to know (for example, "how is DD's fever today, or is she feeling well enough to return to school$, that is something g to which you should respond.

The other stuff, not so much. And unless he is doing something that you think will be relevant later, such as making wild accusations about you not paying bills when you have, forward that to your attorney. Otherwise, refer him to his and let him pay the bill.

Cat

nekorb posted 6/25/2014 06:49 AM

such as making wild accusations about you not paying bills when you have

Can I tell you that last week his attorney complained to mine that I AM paying the bills and our account balance went down? WH even went so far as to screen shot the banking screen showing the balance at the beginning of the day and at the end of the day that I had paid some of our major bills. His L was going to email it to mine and mine was like - "I really don't need to see that".

GingerAle posted 6/25/2014 11:14 AM

His L was going to email it to mine and mine was like - "I really don't need to see that".


Keep letting your L deal with it. He doesn't have any emotions involved and it's part of his job. Every time you respond to something like this from your WH, you are giving him his supply of ego kibbles. I know it's hard now, you've been doing it for years. But each and every time you ignore his crap, you become more empowered and it will be a bit easier each time. Trust me, I am still working on it too! It's hard. Don't worry about what his next outburst will be; you know it's coming, and you know you are going to ignore it.

GabyBaby posted 6/25/2014 11:38 AM

Example of text from STBXH:

Your lawyer hasn't faxed Form B. Either that or you lied about sending it in. I'm tired of this crap. How can we communicate effectively when you keep ignoring me. I need to pay the cell phone bill. How much was it? I'm sick of paying for your crap when you just sit on your butt and take, take, take. Also, what time is DD's doctor appointment and what time can I pick up the kids to hang out?

Example of how you should respond:

The cell phone bill is $125. I've attached a copy. DD's appointment is at 3pm on Monday, Jun 30. The kids are available on Friday from X to Y time and Saturday from Z to B time. Please confirm within 24hrs what timeframe you would like to take them or we will make other plans/arrangements."

Please note that nowhere in the response were there explanations regarding the lawyer, defending self against the thinly veiled "you're not communicating with me" comments.
Kids and finances only.

[This message edited by GabyBaby at 11:39 AM, June 25th (Wednesday)]

Gemini71 posted 6/25/2014 11:50 AM

^^^^^THIS!!!

nekorb posted 6/26/2014 05:50 AM

I have to tell you guys- I took Rainbows' suggestion and changed WH to "WAIT before answering" in my phone.

It has helped so much already!! I highly recommend that little tip if you are struggling with boundaries/NC!!

Ashland13 posted 6/26/2014 17:01 PM

Something I learned is never to reply right away.

That beep. Such a small noise but a crazy one.

If you can wait to reply til you've thought of it, sometimes it helps. And maybe keep copies of all of it.

Just wanted to mention, too, that part of Perv's defense is saying that everyone who helps me lies and I lie, too.

Oftentimes, it's a tactic and defense used to discredit accusations or get out of doing things.

Perv, for instance, actually told people where I live-business people like the realtor-not to even talk to me because I lied and was confused. She did anyway and realized it was he who was lying.

ETA, I wouldn't feel bad for long, nekorb. We're human and this is a crazy time.

The other thing I've learned-in being in conversation with x, make sure you can back up any conversation, real or typed. Any at all. You'd be surprised, the littlest thing can bite ya. But if you have back up, you're set.

[This message edited by Ashland13 at 5:02 PM, June 26th (Thursday)]

Nature_Girl posted 6/26/2014 17:21 PM

Why are you still listening to this dumbshit and taking anything he says to heart?

ButterflyGirl posted 6/26/2014 18:09 PM

I changed his email nickname to "he's baiting you"

Seriously, it helped...

nekorb posted 6/26/2014 18:16 PM

I've done better today.

I'm not really taking it to heart, NG, it's just irritating the shit out of me AND setting these boundaries creates a lot of anxiety within me.

Everytime my phone pings or vibrates with a new message or email I feel anxiety rising in my chest that it's WH and he's badgering me about something or getting angry or just being a PA jerk.

I see room for improvement in things I did today, but it is an overall win thus far compared to how I have responded (or not!) in the past. Improvement even since yesterday!

Now when I learn not to let it make me anxious I will really be making progress!

Ashland - I do try to do most of the communications via text or email. If it's just a convo in person I follow up with an email.

Phoenix1 posted 6/26/2014 18:35 PM

Everytime my phone pings or vibrates with a new message or email I feel anxiety rising in my chest that it's WH and he's badgering me about something or getting angry or just being a PA jerk.

I remember that feeling well in the early days. My anxiety would jump every time! But it DOES get better. The more you go crickets, the easier it eventually becomes to do so. What starts out as a few minutes of waiting to respond will easily turn to days, or not at all. When XPOS texts or calls now, there is absolutely no anxiety and it is more of a nuisance, and I get around to him on my schedule (if at all).

You'll get there, nekorb...

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