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deena04 posted 6/27/2014 15:02 PM

Is it possible to look at R at different paces? For example, he cheated a bit over two years ago, left there ill and in tears, and drove around for hours trying to figure out why he let himself get to that point. He was angry and depressed until I found out 6.5 months ago. We only married 11 months ago, so we married during this time of me not knowing. He says over and over that he snapped out of his not knowing what he wanted stage and whatever let him do that and recommitted to us then and there. He says he worked hard to make sure he would never do it again and has changed his coping skills. I have filed for D as it is not what I feel I deserve to live with. My question is whether, if we do somehow make it, can he be further into R than me? He has had more time to deal than I have.

tfkeel posted 6/27/2014 15:10 PM

Well, basically, the WS has nothing to "get over".
The damage is done to the BS.

And, this can be a problem in "recovery", because the WS is anxious to move past it and get on with life, but the BS is still stuck in pain and emotional trauma.

rachelc posted 6/27/2014 15:14 PM

W

ell, basically, the WS has nothing to "get over".

the WS really really does. The WS must figure out why they allowed themselves to treat other people in such a hurtful way. They need to figure out why they used an affair as a coping mechanism for pain. For some, these are ingrained so deep they must dig and dig to get healthy. They need to make sure they are a safe partner for their BS. Oh yes, they have a lot to get over, IMHO... and if they've gotten over it and want to move past it within just a few months - RED FLAG!

deena04 posted 6/27/2014 15:21 PM

He isn't saying he is done with the work, but still working on it and making progress. That is more accurate. The closer to finalization we get, the more I am not sure we should D. We were going to remarry. It's my closure to this M and the start of a new one if you get that. Now it seems like renewing and rebuilding may be an option instead of costly divorce and paperwork. I guess I was just wondering if the WS can truly do the work and be remorseful and ahead in terms of coping than the BS? That's where I feel we are if we do make it.

MandMs posted 6/27/2014 15:22 PM

I can definitely speak to R at different paces.

My H seems to be so much further along in healing than I am. I think a big reason this is so for us is because He's known the whole story all along any I've only had it for about 7 months or so. It sounds like you are dealing with a similar scenario?

This could possibly be good news for both of us! Because he is so much further along in the acceptance of what happened and his own healing he is more available to help you with what you need to heal.

The past few days I've been struggling with this very topic. Why does he get to have all this peace and serenity and I'm still suffering so terribly? So I talked to my H today and expressed to him how I felt bad about needing him so much right now. That I didn't want to drag him down into my misery. His response was that he wants to help me in anyway he can. That one of the reasons he's doing so well is because he feels like he's finally in a place where he can help me and take responsibility for what he's done to me.

It's really quite beautiful the way the universe has planned this out for us. I hope your H is willing to help you with your healing if you decide to R.

MandMs posted 6/27/2014 15:25 PM

I posted before I saw the other responses and I just have to say…

Well, basically, the WS has nothing to "get over".

I could not disagree more with this statement! What about the guilt shame and remorse the WS experiences? Aren't those feelings just as real as our own struggles as BS?

blakesteele posted 6/27/2014 15:35 PM

Well, basically, the WS has nothing to "get over".
The damage is done to the BS.

To support the truth that Rachelc already stated....this is a false assumption.

I was guilty of this too.

I saw my wifes affair as "she gets to dance, I have to pay the band" sort of thing. It made sense to me....would be fun to F around and then come home and play house again. right?

They call it fantasy for a reason.

The ILLUSION is the wayward is as stated above.

the FACT is the wayward, unless they are a psycopath, is actually far more damaged then the BS by their actions. BS were victimized...it sucks, its traumatic....but we didn't chose it, didn't have any say in it. It happened to us. WS were actively choosing to hurt themselves. They invited it into their soul, to their M, to their families.

WS choose to hurt themselves first and foremost. The first lie told in affairs are those the wayward tells themselves. Often these lies stretch all the way back to childhood.

almost 2 years out and I can say that this is traumatic level pain for all involved...BS and WS alike.

Now....with regards to the pace of R?

Lord knows I want my pace to be the same as my wife.

But it is not....lots of reasons. Varying "awareness", emotional and spiritual maturity, fellowship network, ability to face conflict, other life stress's, all play into the speed in which R is learned.

And this is a learning process....

...a process that is often non-linear. You make some grounds, then you slip.

Its clunky. One of you will experience growth, share it with the other.....they will react sometimes with suppport, sometimes with jealousy, sometimes soft resentment. We influence each other.

Some waywards quickly rugsweep....kind of "Its all good. I will NEVER NEVER NEVER do that again!". Hollow words to a BS who NEVER NEVER NEVER thought they would do it in the first place.

But don't mistake that for "snapping" out of it. It is a snap reaction, but hardly constitutes anything more than same old, same old. Conflict avoidance is a pretty common trait to waywards. Snapping out of it quickly wisks them away from ground zero.

This is why R is a gift from BS to WS. Truly learning to R requires serious digging and feeling and leaning into pain. If that doesn't happen.....you simply welcome back in old coping mechs. The same ones that allowed infidelity to be a choice for wayward spouse, the same one that allowed destructive choices to be made by the betrayed spouse too. Most likely....you both hurt your relationship.

Seeing as you are only 11 months in.....how bonded are you to this man?

I ask because of your short time together. I wrestled over a year on what my 15 year marriage was to my wife....all a sham, part a sham, did I ever love her, did she ever love me. I think if I had a short term M my choice may have been very different.

But then again, my wife did choose infidelity when we were just engaged. I didn't see it as it was...but secret intimate emails between her an another OM occurred.

So who knows how I would react. Hell, I didn't think I would be here 2 years ago.

But here is a GOOD place to be.

I don't regret the past 2 years. I have grown and matured. I have no guarantees D will not be choosen...but I have solid faith that my inputs have changed enough to ensure I won't repeat the same old, ineffective, worn out cycles that I fought so hard to save upon my first 2 DD's.

What is your husbands past like? Been married before? Addictive tendencies? Other issues?

You are at the 6 month mark...can you say that adultery was a deal breaker for you? If yes, no sense in wondering about paces of R. KWIM?

God is with us all.

[This message edited by blakesteele at 3:37 PM, June 27th (Friday)]

yme32313 posted 6/27/2014 15:38 PM

I know where you're coming from and he has years to get over his betrayal and you just have months.

Take time and make sure you get what you are looking for.

My H had his time to heal and I still struggle...I'm trying my hardest to move on because I deeply love him.

I did tell him that if this happen during our marriage there is no second guessing because I will leave, that I don't deserve this as a married couple.

deena04 posted 6/27/2014 15:48 PM

Thank you all. Blakesteele, we have been together almost five years, only married about 11 months. We moved in together four years ago. He was married before. To the best of my knowledge (and believe me I've dug and dug now) he never cheated before on me or and he says never on her. She did cheat on him. We are bonded as we have his and hers kids that see themselves as siblings. It really sucks because it would be easy to walk away (and I would have had we not been married and had I known two years ago). The more time spent=more time for kids to blend into one cohesive unit. That's why I try. We are also expecting one together. It is a deal breaker for me. The only way for it not to be for me is to start over, hence the filing and ending of this particular marriage either by D or remarry/renew vows. I especially like your last line about God being with us. I need it!

blakesteele posted 6/27/2014 16:38 PM

I especially like your last line about God being with us. I need it!

(((deana04)))

What I have come to realize....is that God was with me all the while. He is with you too...always has been. His heart hurts for you and your husband and all of us. This is NOT his design for us...but he loves us enough to give us free will to do as we will.

The isolation I felt as a child, the pain of being neglected...I wonder how much more healthy I would have been if I had realized this fact back then. And I was in Catholic schools, mass on Wednesday and Sundays. So "religion" is not the answer.

I always believed in God, but just 3 years ago started walking with God. No coincidences. He knew the trial that lay ahead of us...and He was nudging me to start preparing then...was doing the same for my wife.

I regret mentioning to you what I would have done if I had a short term marriage. That was not correct or helpful. I am sorry.

Like I said...my wife was committing infidelity before we got married. I was choosing and using porn before we married to. I knew about my wifes choices, she about mine...and we still wed.

We are blessed with 2 daughters....even though after DD's I questioned just what shit my M was, I recognized how much good there was.

We do the best we can with the knowledge we have....then we learn better and can choose to do better.

I think it highly likely your husband DID get stung hard enough to jump start his journey. My wife is NOT that wayward, but I do see some that are.

The fact he was cheated on in a prior relationship must surely give him a jump start on finding empathy and compassion for you.

The fact I was willingly choosing infidelity myself has been a painful but great source of compassion for my wife. She, too, feels isolated and reaches for false intimacies when this happens. Isolation was my trigger to reach for and use porn.

I have added you to my SI specific prayer list. once a name goes on it does not come off. Even once you process through this pain (and you are in peak pain phase now) prayers will be necessary.

Peace.

[This message edited by blakesteele at 4:41 PM, June 27th (Friday)]

Crushed15Feb13 posted 6/27/2014 17:03 PM

Some waywards quickly rugsweep....kind of "Its all good. I will NEVER NEVER NEVER do that again!". Hollow words to a BS who NEVER NEVER NEVER thought they would do it in the first place.

I hear this all the time from my WW. I ask her how she knows, and she says the fallout from the affair, seeing my pain, has altered her permanently.

I don't know what to believe. Her IC discourages her self-loathing, and have dug into childhood hurts but I am not sure just discovering a possible reason is sufficient to change a lifetime of attitude and behavior.

To Deena's question - without a doubt my WW is farther along than me. She has virtually perfect understanding of everything that went on during the affair, has no reason to distrust her BS, and has had 7 years to think about the situation. My last, huge TT was 6 months ago. The whole affair for me happened in the last year. For her it happened in real time. For me, it all came crashing onto me with the OBS's phone call.

[This message edited by Crushed15Feb13 at 5:04 PM, June 27th (Friday)]

peoplepleaser posted 6/27/2014 17:05 PM

I fail to see how a WS who has not disclosed his betrayal could possibly be further in R. It's unclear if he confessed, but you wrote "found out" so I'm assuming it was discovered. Maybe he did do some work, but without disclosing it to you I'm not sure I buy that.

Doing work on his own is great, but from what I've read and experienced, only half the information for "work" is available when the BS isn't aware. The work done prior to your awareness had to be based on the mind frame that justified the actions as he did them. His perspective on the relationship, your behaviors, thoughts and actions, and even his own interpretation of how he behaved would have been very skewed. I think that this is why the timeline is so important. It's not just about getting the information to the BS so that they can have a realistic story of the relationship, but it also allows for shared interpretation of meaning about the relationship and even reflections of the WS from the BS that are valuable.

No, I can't buy that the WS can be further in R. I do think the processes are different, however. IMHO, R is a team effort. It is a progression based on the interaction rather than an individual's perception. It is the interaction of each person's perspective toward a shared one. He may be ready for certain aspects of the relationship to "go back to normal" before you, but that's not because his work is done. It can't be done if you aren't ready. And it's not a race, it's a slow stroll through dark and bright places where eventually the dark places lessen and the bright places are more rampant.

Individual work and awareness is another ball. But even then, his individual work was done without all the information, making his perspectives about you, himself and the relationship tainted, unrealistic and incomplete. Every relationship is different making the problems unique across them; however, since infidelity is IMHO the worst thing someone can do to the person they love, much more independent work is necessary for the WS. That level of brokenness reveals some difficult and deep-seeded issues. So no matter how long he had to "work" on himself before you knew, I find it hard to believe that he would be ahead of you even in the respect.

[This message edited by peoplepleaser at 5:11 PM, June 27th (Friday)]

blakesteele posted 6/27/2014 17:26 PM

That never never never speech? Particularly hollow in my sitch......wife saw the fallout in all her close relationships......and still chose her A. Had a "yah, but" attitude.

Her attitude has and is changing but words are about 10% of this equation now.

Deana04.....his words are part of this. But the bigger piece of this pie is TIME. It takes time to afford opportunities to occur that allow him to chose real actions to back up this profession of change.

Right now is all you have.

Past is dead. Future is unknown. Today is it.

Today you are filing for D, but D is not final today.

Today he is choosing to use words to show his intent. Great! It's healthy. Hopefully he is trying to create as many ops as he can to show his love to you. Love is a choice. Leaving notes for you, comforting you as you express your pain, signing up for therapy, writing a timeline......jus a few actions he can chose TODAY to back up his words of yesterday.

Bias here......I want M's to grow through this.

Peace.

hopefull77 posted 6/27/2014 19:36 PM

This is hard work no matter the outcome....focus on you...I struggle with having to pay to go to this show and H had a free ticket....but when I really think about it who wants a free ticket to this freak show!!!
I can look at myself in the mirror....I am praying for our marriage everyday! It feels good...it feels right...
When the fear starts to bubble up I know it's the opposite of God ....I have had lots of God moments in my life and I know that on dday God figured I was ready for battle and deep down I know I will be ok...this helps me move forward....

I wish you peace!!!!!