SurvivingInfidelity.com Forum Archives

I had an interesting experience last night that opened my eyes and has me saying "hmmm" this morning.

I went to a bar last night, and ran into my good friend's boyfriend. He was with guy friends, and she wasn't there. It was obvious they were all quite drunk, and he was quite blunt in the things he was saying about people. He brought up that my friend told him I had broken up with new guy, and he told me that he never understood why I was with that guy. Then he started talking about another one of my female friends who I think is gorgeous, and he said that she would make a horrible girlfriend. Out of curiosity, I asked him what his honest opinion of me was.

He said that both him and his girlfriend (my friend) think that I'm amazing, and they have no clue why I lower my standards to date the men that I do. He asked me if I wanted him to be bluntly honest, and I said yes. He said that I'm "so close" to coming into my own, and he doesn't know what's holding me back. He said that I'm easily one of the most attractive girls he knows, and that I'm extremely smart. But he said that I hold back and pretend that I'm not. He said that I'm quiet, but he thinks that it's me holding back and pretending to be quiet. He said that I need to realize how great I am. He said that I could walk into any place, pick a man, and have him. He kept repeating that I have no clue what a great catch I am, and kept listing all these great qualities that he thinks I have. He said that him and my friend talk about it sometimes. I started feeling embarrassed, and changed the conversation.

He's right though. I don't see myself as attractive or smart. I mean, I know I'm good looking. But I'm not pretty the way my gorgeous friend is. I always get cheated on by guys who go after the short, skinny, long hair girls. I'm tall and curvy with freckles. And I know that I'm technically an attorney, which means something. But I feel like a faker a lot, and worry that some day someone is going to see that I'm not actually smart enough for this job. And I am quiet, because I don't know what to say in groups. When my friends go out, they always meet guys. I tend to hang back in the corner and watch everything.

It was interesting to see how someone else sees me though. I wonder if he was just drunk, or if that's how people really see me.

Do people see you differently than you see yourself? How did you merge the versions of yourself into being the same? I guess I just need more confidence I guess.

Well compliments are sometimes nice to hear & we all need to sometimes, but why are you caring what anyone else thinks? You're an introvert. That means you'll be quiet in groups. There's nothing shameful in that. Also, humility is attractive. Despite just bagging on yourself for it, being humble is actually something that can serve you well in the long run.

I will say one thing though. I've never dated a guy ever where people don't say to me "he's not good enough for you". I've come to realize that that has nothing to do with who I'm dating but says a lot about the people who say it. Those are the people that would prefer I be alone so that I'm free to be at their disposal.

It's sort of like overweight folks who get lap band surgery, lose tons of weight & then find out that their family & friends are pissed at their new confidence. Where's their old fat friend who was always there?? How dare she have her own life now!

Who cares how others see you? How do you see you? And if all you can come up with is negative stuff ask yourself why playing those tapes in your head full of ugly ridiculous untrue thoughts brings you comfort? And more comfort than saying something nice to yourself? Start there & you've halfway won the battle of listening & trusting your own inner voice rather than needing to seek validation from others.

I think your trip to Paris will turn your head around and you may start to figure this stuff out.

It'll be good to break out of your box and just live in the moment.

And yes, who cares what other people think? You are who you are and once you get comfortable with that, the world will be your oyster.

[This message edited by FaithFool at 11:39 AM, June 29th (Sunday)]

Oh, I wasn't seeking validation from other people. It was an interesting conversation that just sort of happened, and I just thought it was weird that he sees me so much differently than I see myself.

With my ex, I always felt lucky to be dating him. I thought he was more attractive and better than me. Kind of same thing with new guy. I thought he was more attractive than me, and didn't really see what he saw in me. Maybe that plays into why I stay in relationships longer than I should.

I think the conversation just made me realize that I could stand to have a little bit more confidence in myself.

I haven't read all your posts but I read a few. There is a perception as we get older of people's profession.

If you want to be truly who you are and at peace - define your goals and work with an IC to get there. After my divorce I was lost and I asked my friends to be honest and they told me my greatest strengths and areas to improve. I trust them and have known them over 20 years.

I suspect what this guy was saying is the truth but I don't know and if you don't see it you don't really know. Find someone who can help you navigate a relationship. Personally I would start with myself and nonromantic relationships.

Life can be full with just relationships with both men and women. I was never into marriage yet was the first of my friends to be married. Develop your relationships and it will help you gain perspective and boundaries in your other relationships.

Good luck!

[This message edited by fireproof at 1:17 PM, June 29th (Sunday)]

What my IC told me was that physically people are attracted to other people at their attractiveness level. So, if you are dating a 7, and he is into you...then you are a 7 too. If you look around at happy couples you know, generally, aren't they about the same "number"? You don't generally see a "2" with a "9" unless there is money involved.

I have to talk myself through some "self love" if I have a date with a guy that I think is "out of my league". I remind myself that I have so much to offer the right guy that isn't physical. Plus, I want the guy to like ME, not some version of me. But, when they start complimenting me...I have to take deep breath and just say "thank you" and know there is something about me they do like and it isn't my place to change their mind.

IC (and some SI friends) helped me to remember to talk self love instead of self-loathe. Listen how you talk to yourself...would you talk like that to someone else? Probably not. I have to work at changing that "negative nelly" in my head sometimes. It has gotten better over time, but it is something I have to stay on top of.

Try reading about "impostor syndrome" some time. I also have that, where I live in fear that my clients will discover I'm no good, my family will discover I'm an arse, the people I jam with will discover I'm shit.

Here's a discovery I recently made, I was feeling unattractive one day - have felt that all my life, of course - and started looking at old pictures. The years between then and now gave me a little more impartiality. Back then, I was pretty good-looking, but never considered myself to be so.

Knowing my tendency to be down on myself, I assumed that if I was attractive back then, I likely still am - and will eventually look back at pictures of now, thinking I looked good. So I should just decide I look good now.

Of course, that works better on some days over others.

I understand, LonelyGirl.

My cousin and I were talking about this recently when taking pictures of each other and finally being able to laugh at ourselves.

She is professional, happily married and overly financially secure while I'm finally coming to terms with my single life.

IDK if this will help any but your post made me think of it.

But, we have in common our physical insecurities. She told me a saying that stuck in my head when we saw a close up of ourselves together. I was frowning at my eyes, which I hate when squinting, and she doesn't like some things about her face. So she says, "In my mind, my face is less poofy than I see there."

This was a weekend for a wedding and she and I spent the whole rest of the weekend laughing over that. For me, it's other things, my flab and vericose veins and squinty eyes. And on and on we could go.

The gyst of it is, I think I'm trying to get at, is that it's all perception. Or the way we dress or the way we wear make up and hair.

And, how we feel about ourselves.

What helped for us both is finding something about our appearance that we liked and building on it.

My first reaction to your friend's statement is that he means confidence, which I've read about as being attractive. Yet if anyone has too much, it can be a downer.

So I'll stick with my long winded thought, it's so much about perception, our own looking out and others looking in.

If you haven't seen Brene Brown's TED talks, check them out. I also think you could benefit from her books, particularly The Gifts of Imperfection.

Try reading about "impostor syndrome" some time. I also have that, where I live in fear that my clients will discover I'm no good, my family will discover I'm an arse, the people I jam with will discover I'm shit.

Yup, that's exactly how I feel.

I grew up never feeling like I was good enough. My mom constantly compared me to my sister. She was the cheerleader, model, popular one. My mom would tell me that I needed to look more like my sister in order to attract men. And then when I decided to go to law school, my mom told me that I couldn't do it because I was too shy. My family was poor when I was growing up. We didn't have a nice house, and I had only been to two states when I graduated college.

So I think people see me as this attractive, smart, attorney, with a nice house, who travels all the time.... and I still see myself as that girl who wasn't good enough. I very rarely ask people what they think of me, but the answers always surprise me when I do.

I also have a hard time with compliments. New guy told me that I was very smart a few times, and I always responded "no I'm not." It sometimes aggravates me when people hear "attorney" and automatically assume I'm smart. I don't feel smart, and I want the guy I'm dating to know the vulnerable side of me I guess. I don't want to feel like an imposter around my SO too. But, maybe the real problem is that I need to change the way I see myself.

But, maybe the real problem is that I need to change the way I see myself.

Dude. That!

Sounds like a case of imposter syndrome, in part? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Impostor_syndrome

I think it's culturally hard for women to be confident in some ways; do be mindful of that and try to shift your perspective and raise your expectations of what you deserve.

Well,well, well lonelygirl, you are smart!! In a fun loving laughing way! :) So flaunt it. Confidence will be your best accessory! I promise that. Take my STBXH for example, he is not very attractive to the general population. But, he's so outgoing and attentive to people, it MAKES him attractive. Weird, huh, I know. People, mostly men would always ask why I'm with this ugly guy, or they used to anyways. It's what's inside that matters most.

When people, anyone see that you LOVE yourself and you think the world of yourself, they like that, they're attracted to that, that ism inside you.

I'm a born introvert turned semi-extrovert. I loathe any type of compliment or attention. I've learned to gracefully say thank you, smile, blush, look down, but defenitely say thank you.

oooooooh, I want to go to Pariiii with you!!!

Plus, you put out what you're gonna get. If you're residing as the local wallflower, guys get the hint. If you put yourself out there, and smile in conversation, they DEFENITELY get that fun loving vibe...It's all on you my dear.

[This message edited by libertyrocks at 4:41 PM, June 30th (Monday)]

A friend's husband recently told her that asking about weight gain was less attractive than actually gaining weight. Confidence is paramount for most people. Typically only predators are drawn to insecurity.

Nevertheless self-confidence is still something I struggle with from time to time. Ironically though I find it arrogant that it is even on my radar. What does it even mean to be attractive enough, smart enough, funny enough, etc…? If it’s necessary to rank humanity at all it should be on kindness.

[This message edited by Crescita at 5:25 PM, June 30th (Monday)]

Objectively, I know that I'm not unattractive. I can look at my pictures and see that. But, it just seems like given the chance, all the men in my life have chose another girl over me. So I always feel like I'm just good enough as a place holder until someone better comes along, if that makes sense.

It's definitely something I need to work on. I need to gain confidence, and know that I'm worthwhile even if I'm not chosen by a man. I also need to somehow accept that I have gotten to where I am in life, and therefore must somehow deserve it.

And I think that your last post sums up the impression I've gotten about you -- you are a fabulous lady, but since you don't believe exactly how fabulous you are, you date people who you perceive (incorrectly) to be at your level. But they are not at your level -- they lack character, so they do things like cheat on you or treat you very poorly and you put up with it because you don't believe you deserve better.

It's not that you're not good enough for them, it's that they were never good enough for you in the first place.

I think taking some time to yourself to enjoy being single and rediscovering how wonderful you are will be extremely beneficial for you. Once you truly internalize and believe that, you won't put up with being treated as less-than.

It's not that you're not good enough for them, it's that they were never good enough for you in the first place.

That's exactly what my friend's boyfriend told me on Saturday night. I argued with him for a couple minutes, and then it started to sink in. I've been internalizing it all, and I need to change the way I see it.

Lonelygirl, have you read the book, 'Quiet'?
It's written by a lawyer and it's about appreciating the benefits and strengths of being an introvert in a culture that places more value on those who are extraverted. It is enlightening and a good read. I think it would help you see yourself in a more positive light.

No, I've never heard of it. Thank you for the recommendation though, and I will look it up now.

It's not that you're not good enough for them, it's that they were never good enough for you in the first place.

This is my impression of you also, fwiw.

He kept repeating that I have no clue what a great catch I am, and kept listing all these great qualities that he thinks I have.

A-f'n-men.

With my ex, I always felt lucky to be dating him.

Of course you did....your ex was an abusive fuckwit.

My mom constantly compared me to my sister. She was the cheerleader, model, popular one. My mom would tell me that I needed to look more like my sister in order to attract men

And therein lies your FOO issues. *sigh*
LG, you are ALL THAT *and* a bag 'o' chips. You deserve to have a guy that's going to appreciate that.