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Newest Member: meepsy (46028)

User Topic: trust, fear, love and triggering....
Morhurt
♀ 40166
Member # 40166
Default  Posted: 3:19 PM, June 30th (Monday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I'm so confused today.

Over all, R is going exceptionally well I would say. We're both in IC and have been working very hard on ourselves and our M. Our communication is so much better, we're team mates, we laugh, cry and talk together every day.

And then... something happens that scares me and my heart says "RUN, run away as fast as you can!" and I freeze and can't speak or think or even barely breathe.

H is great, comforting, loving etc. and it really does help. But on the other hand he had multiple affairs over the course of our ENTIRE 15 years of marriage before I found out last spring. How can I let him comfort and soothe me? What is wrong with me that I'm not running for the hills as fast as my weary legs can carry me?

Most recent trigger:
He works in a sales type job and two of his PA's were with customers, another two (one EA, one PA) were with women he met on business trips. So ya, his job triggers me. He has zero contact with those particular women now but there are all those other women that he still sees for sales calls and work in general. So this weekend we were away on a kids sports trip and there was a woman there that he knows through work. He had mentioned her to me before and that she had kids in the same sport (different town). Well when they saw each other there were no major red flags but they were a bit too chummy for my liking. For example "hi Remone-y" in a sing-song voice and his response "Hi her name-y" also sing-songy. So nothing at all really but just, you know, still too much after what we've been through.

So I told him and he said there was absolutely nothing, never was etc. And she's, ahem, not his type (he didn't say anything about that, I am) and I'm sure in his mind he was thinking I was crazy for thinking anything about her. But you see, that's not the point! No one is safe, are they? I mean, whether she seems too old, too young, too fat, too thin, too blond, too dark, it doesn't matter, every one is a danger to me now. (And I hate that SO much)

So the next day I ended up talking to this woman and she proceeded to tell me how much she and the other women in her office love my H and that he's so friendly and fun. And that when she first moved here and met him (at work) she had the hots for him and was after him until she found out he was married with kids. I wanted to puke.

Sorry this is getting so long.

I told him and he felt awful but I can't even explain how it makes me feel. He asked what he could do to help me feel safe but I'm at a complete loss. I just feel dirty right now. I pictured myself saying to her "don't worry, him being married doesn't stop him, keep trying!" or something. I was getting myself all sweaty and shaky over nothing really.

We tried talking about it last night but I was still too deer-in-the-headlights to discuss it. I think I still am actually. What I see as an example of poor boundaries that probably invade almost every single work relationship he has, he seems to see as a quasi-friendship that means nothing. He suggested he stop making calls to her business but that honestly means nothing to me. Because who are that hundreds of other women he sees on sales days and what are those relationships? This is just one I witnessed, for me it's a window into how those women see him.

Please, 2X4 me, talk me down, whatever, just steer me in some direction please.


Me: BS
Him: FWS
M: 15 years
4 lovely daughters
Working to rebuild.

Posts: 961 | Registered: Aug 2013 | From: Canada
bionicgal
♀ 39803
Member # 39803
Default  Posted: 3:29 PM, June 30th (Monday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

"hi Remone-y" in a sing-song voice and his response "Hi her name-y" also sing-songy. So nothing at all really but just, you know, still too much after what we've been through.

Umm. .. Just -- no. If I heard my husband talk like that to someone, I'd punch him. I mean, seriously?

What I see as an example of poor boundaries that probably invade almost every single work relationship he has, he seems to see as a quasi-friendship that means nothing. He suggested he stop making calls to her business but that honestly means nothing to me. Because who are that hundreds of other women he sees on sales days and what are those relationships? This is just one I witnessed, for me it's a window into how those women see him.

Your husband has had repeated affairs and poor boundaries for most of your marriage. The problem is, that his style of interacting with women causes issues, and will cause issues. Is he willing to seriously look at himself, and change occupations if he can't stop being such a ham and a flirt with women? Since he is in sales, this is probably going to remain an issue. Is drinking with these folks another occupational hazard? Again, a real problem.

I don't know what to say, other than sometimes people pick careers that support their least best selves. I am going to go out on a limb, and say most corporate sales-type people I know (including family members) picked that career because they are extroverts, and sometimes because they think partying as part of a job description is a swell idea. I don't know any happily married and securely attached sales people. Sorry, I just don't. I am sure they exist, but I am not sure it is the norm.

So, I think both he has to change, and that he should consider a career change. Just my (biased) opinion, but it is based on some experience.

[This message edited by bionicgal at 3:33 PM, June 30th (Monday)]


me - BS (45) - DDay - June 2013
A was 2+ months, EA/PA
In MC & Reconciling
"Getting over a painful experience is much like crossing monkey bars. You have to let go at some point to move forward." -- C.S. Lewis.

Posts: 2247 | Registered: Jul 2013 | From: USA
Sammy2013
♀ 41040
Member # 41040
Default  Posted: 3:36 PM, June 30th (Monday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I could have written your entire post. My WH is the guy all women love cause he's "so funny", "you mush crack up all the time!" That easily led to crossed boundaries. My WH also works with sales people and his two affairs and the "pros" were all when he was on business trips. So like you, his entire career is a trigger for me. He does what he can, put a tracker on his phone, I have access to everything, he facetimes me whenever he gets from me that I'm not comfortable with something. But the thing is, I had no idea for years what was going on. And things are easily manipulated. And like you said, someone who doesn't even seem like a threat very well could be. When I looked up the final AP when I got a bit of a tingle her FB profile pic was of her and her husbands wedding pic. They were celebrating their anniversary. Yeah, she slept with my husband the very next day.

It all goes back to trust. And that dreaded word, time.

Strength to you. I miss the days when I didn't worry about my husband and his work trips and colleagues. I have accepted that those days are over. I'm now trying to figure out how to proceed. I now it's better to know the truth, but I will admit, I miss my days of ignorance sometimes. When he is on a trip and I have to take a pill to get to sleep because my mind goes nuts, I really miss the ignorance.


WH -37; BS (me) 38
Married 13 years, 3 kiddos
First DDay 9/13. 3 more since then (trickle truth sucks). 6 years of Prostitutes, 2 affairs in 2013, SA diagnosis now with 1 relapse so far (massage parlor with happy ending 2/14).
Waiting, observing,

Posts: 214 | Registered: Oct 2013 | From: Southeast United States
Morhurt
♀ 40166
Member # 40166
Default  Posted: 3:46 PM, June 30th (Monday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Is he willing to seriously look at himself, and change occupations if he can't stop being such a ham and a flirt with women?
I think he is, yes. I mean, he goes to IC and I believe he's looking at the hard stuff. But I can't be totally sure how deep he's looking, can I? And when it comes to boundaries, I don't even fully know what I expect. He uses the term "keeping me safe", after this incident I said I think he's keeping me "safer", but not necessarily "safe". He hated to hear that, and I hated to say it. As for a job change.... I simplified it for the post. He owns the business with a partner and it is our sole income. Sales is part of what he does but it's not corporate, it's a small (but profitable) business. I believe that if I asked him to sell out he would, but I would never want that.

Thank you for responding BG.

Is drinking with these folks another occupational hazard?
No, he doesn't travel for business anymore or attend any evening functions (aside from staff parties, which I also attend).


Me: BS
Him: FWS
M: 15 years
4 lovely daughters
Working to rebuild.

Posts: 961 | Registered: Aug 2013 | From: Canada
Morhurt
♀ 40166
Member # 40166
Default  Posted: 3:49 PM, June 30th (Monday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Sammy~
I miss the days when I didn't worry about my husband and his work trips and colleagues. I have accepted that those days are over. I'm now trying to figure out how to proceed. I know it's better to know the truth, but I will admit, I miss my days of ignorance sometimes. When he is on a trip and I have to take a pill to get to sleep because my mind goes nuts, I really miss the ignorance.
This exactly (minus the business trips). Thank you for understanding. I miss the easiness and care free-ness so much. Sometimes I want to scream "Just give me my old life baaaaack!!!!!"


Me: BS
Him: FWS
M: 15 years
4 lovely daughters
Working to rebuild.

Posts: 961 | Registered: Aug 2013 | From: Canada
seethelight
♀ 43513
Member # 43513
Default  Posted: 3:53 PM, June 30th (Monday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

"hi Remone-y" in a sing-song voice and his response "Hi her name-y" also sing-songy. So nothing at all really but just, you know, still too much after what we've been through.

Morhurt:

This would bother me, too. This is not a professional greeting to a coworker.

and she proceeded to tell me how much she and the other women in her office love my H and that he's so friendly and fun. And that when she first moved here and met him (at work) she had the hots for him and was after him until she found out he was married with kids. I wanted to puke.

This woman is waaaay out of bounds. This is really overstepping a boundary, when a women starts discussing how she has the "hots" for someone's husband.

He definitely needs to avoid this woman.

My husband was also very friendly with the women at work. He had a habit of being flirtatious as well as sharing too personal information about our lives with them.

He has changed, but I had to actually boot him out for awhile for him to get the message that his flirtatious behavior as well as his sharing our personal lives, was an opening for slutty women.

[This message edited by seethelight at 3:59 PM, June 30th (Monday)]


“If two people truly have feelings for one another then they don’t have an affair. They get a divorce and they sort out their feelings. You are accountable for the people you hold hostage in a marriage when your mind and heart refuse to fully commit

Posts: 1516 | Registered: May 2014
iwillNOT
♀ 40605
Member # 40605
Default  Posted: 4:46 PM, June 30th (Monday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Morhurt, I just had to post, I have been experiencing the exact same thing. We are working on R, in MC, and IC for us both. Most of the time, things are so very good. BUT. Something he says or does, even a very little thing sometimes, will trigger me BAD and I feel every part of me literally wanting to run away, wanting him to leave, it's like this inner voice yelling GETAWAYGETAWAY! Sometimes it lasts just for a little while, sometimes for days.

This is how my IC explained it to me. She said that when you have been dealt a trauma of this magnitude, your unconscious is constantly scanning for anything threatening, anything with a seeming similarity to the time of the affair/finding out/what he did then. When it perceives the similarity, your brain is wired into a pathway that takes you right back to the way you felt then. When it happens to me, I can literally feel my heart race, stomach drop, very visceral reaction, and I feel very much in danger, fight or flight I guess.

No one is safe, are they? I mean, whether she seems too old, too young, too fat, too thin, too blond, too dark, it doesn't matter, every one is a danger to me now

I think this is key, right here. The new reality. We can't ever feel 100% safe. And we can't control our WH's actions. Reality is that if they want to, they will cheat again. So we are faced with learning to live with that reality, that knowledge of lack of control we have(in reality, we have never had control and complete safety, it's just that now we know it.)

when she first moved here and met him (at work) she had the hots for him and was after him until she found out he was married with kids.

I want to vomit right along with you. Ewwwwww.

He asked what he could do to help me feel safe but I'm at a complete loss.

Morhurt, I love that he is asking what he can do to help you, that he is present with you in your distress. It sounds like you do feel he is helping you, remorseful and making the effort. For me,in R, a trigger like you have had here provides a realization that he can't fix everything. My WH is already doing what I ask for, doing so much to "make it better". There are times, though, that the WS cannot do ANYTHING to make it better, the BS has to make it better themselves. This is the hardest part of R for me so far. We as BS's have to step up and be vulnerable and work to find ways to get through and heal and comfort ourselves, when the instinct is to run far away from the danger. We are ultimately responsible for our own healing.

That said, what has helped me? I remind myself that the infidelity is not happening right now, focus on the now. Go through the things in my mind that my WH is doing in our relationship NOW, not what he did then. Talk to him about it as calmly as I can and let him be with me and see the damage he caused and be conscious of how he can minimize my encounters with those situations. Think about the things I can't control and try to accept them. Remind myself I will be ok if this turns out to be a false R. Or, have a glass of wine and go to bed and remind myself things will look better in the morning.
Sometimes I can pry myself out of it, sometimes not.

Sadly this is part of the R process that the BS must bear, it is not fair, not right, it just is.

((Morhurt))


Me: BS, 43
Him: WH, 44
Together 21 years
Married 14 years
Kiddos 2,6,8,10
Dday#1 2004, 3 years after EA/PA co-worker MOW
Dday#2 8-6-13, 13 months EA/9months PA with co-worker MOW - caught not confessed
Rugsweep now, pay later. Ask me how I know.

Posts: 519 | Registered: Sep 2013 | From: Midwest
MandMs
♀ 41740
Member # 41740
Default  Posted: 7:35 PM, June 30th (Monday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

... he had multiple affairs over the course of our ENTIRE 15 years of marriage before I found out last spring. How can I let him comfort and soothe me? What is wrong with me that I'm not running for the hills as fast as my weary legs can carry me?

I just had to respond because this is us. Our entire 15 year marriage has been filled with affairs and I knew nothing up until three years ago. My H is also in sales and one of his OW was a coworker.

First of all there is absolutely nothing wrong with you for sticking around and wanting comforting and soothing from him. I've questioned this too about myself and wondered if there was something "wrong" with me. I've realized that I haven't done anything to cause this or attract this kind of man to me and It's perfectly normal to want to be soothed and comforted by your husband, regardless of the pain he caused. It's his job to comfort you now.

My H was also that friendly guy, especially towards women. He had a huge ego that needed female attention and he just could not help himself. I always knew he was a "flirt" just never knew how far the flirting was going. Old habits die hard and my H eventually changed his behavior around women and there is no more over friendliness. It took a lot of work on his part to change this particular habit.

I told him and he felt awful but I can't even explain how it makes me feel. He asked what he could do to help me feel safe but I'm at a complete loss.

Tell him that him being overly friendly to females is a problem for you and could he work on stopping that behavior please. Be direct and ask for exactly what you need. Repeatedly if you need to.

What you need from him to feel safe will change over time but for now if that's what it takes then that's what it takes and it's ok. You are not crazy for thinking about this!! You have been through a very traumatic life event. This is perfectly normal and even if your H does think you are crazy, there are many on here who completely understand where you are coming from.

(((Morhurt)))


BS 37
fWH 36
DDs 17,14,10

2011 started 2.5years of TT
Full disclosure in OCT.2013,


Posts: 78 | Registered: Dec 2013
Morhurt
♀ 40166
Member # 40166
Default  Posted: 8:40 AM, July 1st (Tuesday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Thank you so much for your replies, they really help. It's amazing what being understood does. I'm still feeling lost and unsure but definitely less frantic.


Me: BS
Him: FWS
M: 15 years
4 lovely daughters
Working to rebuild.

Posts: 961 | Registered: Aug 2013 | From: Canada
karmahappens
♀ 35846
Member # 35846
Default  Posted: 8:58 AM, July 1st (Tuesday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Hey Morhurt :)

Is he willing to seriously look at himself, and change occupations if he can't stop being such a ham and a flirt with women?

I would consider having my husband change jobs if the job was an issue for me.

In your circumstance I don't see the job as an issue, your husband and his boundaries are. There are predatory people and folks with loose boundaries everywhere we turn. Your husband's behavior is ingrained in him, it is who he has become, part of his personality and probably part of the fun loving ways you became attracted to him, kwim?

So changing jobs isn't going to relieve your stress. Your husband has to unravel the pieces inside of him that are unhealthy and unsafe for his marriage. He has to reconstruct a new person. He needs to see himself and his actions and become aware of what they say to others, invitations they send out.

It isn't impossible but it takes time. Your husband probably thinks it's no big deal to sing-song a hello to a woman that he sees...what he needs to understand is the invitation to the slippery slope and how easy it is to suddenly be "there" and in trouble.

He needs to understand his innocent greetings to others may seem like nothing to him but send shock-waves through your body.

He needs to start living his life with intention. The intention to help you feel safe, the intention to carry your heart with a new gentleness. It isn't enough that he "knows " he won't cheat...he has to prove it to you on a daily basis and proving it to you means changing his interactions with the opposite sex.

It takes a while for a ws to understand that the window we are looking out of is not the same view they see. They have the luxury of knowing their thoughts and wants we have to rely on their actions to create the same view...and it takes a long time.

Boundaries don't change over night, but the first step is being aware. Interacting with others thoughtfully and slowly changing the insides.

If you have a ws that is invested and wants to help you heal, they will get there...it just takes time and lots of thoughtful, hard work.

(((hugs)))


“And the day came when the risk to remain tight in a bud was more painful than the risk it took to blossom”
Anaïs Nin
Me: 45
Him: 47
Dday 8/2007
We have R'd

Posts: 3872 | Registered: Jun 2012 | From: Massachusetts
Morhurt
♀ 40166
Member # 40166
Default  Posted: 10:49 AM, July 1st (Tuesday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Thank you Karma. That was very clear and helpfull. H read it too and it really spoke to him. Unfortunately this last weekend's incidents have raised the protection walls around me and they're stuck. I feel that H desperately wants them down but I just can't seem to let him in. The idea of being vulnerable right now is too scary.


Me: BS
Him: FWS
M: 15 years
4 lovely daughters
Working to rebuild.

Posts: 961 | Registered: Aug 2013 | From: Canada
karmahappens
♀ 35846
Member # 35846
Default  Posted: 1:47 PM, July 1st (Tuesday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

The walls go up and down Mor...so right now they are up and you have gone into high alert.

It's just protection mode, they'll come down again.

When a seemingly small "slip up" (for lack of a better word) happens it can shake your core, make your crazy brain run in directions that you don't want it to go in.

When this happens, talk yourself through it. Get to a calm spot and use your "normal" brain. Go through everything he has done to help you lower the walls, go through the help he is providing in order for you to heal.

The steps he is taking now, he sees your point of view, he has taken note. He is willing to look and see that maybe his actions/interactions are flawed.

He wasn't defensive, he didn't go postal on how you should be over it.

In dropping our walls and entering R we take a leap of faith. That leap of faith has to include time for your husband to recreate his inner voice/person. (obviously no A activity, just foo issues, imo).

You also have to take the leap trusting your gut, and having the strength to address the things you see and hear that make you uncomfortable.

So take a little time, do the inventory and see where your walls are when you come from a place of calm. You may find they come down a bit...


“And the day came when the risk to remain tight in a bud was more painful than the risk it took to blossom”
Anaïs Nin
Me: 45
Him: 47
Dday 8/2007
We have R'd

Posts: 3872 | Registered: Jun 2012 | From: Massachusetts
Topic Posts: 12

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