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Lets talk about sex! Sorry, long.

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catlover50 posted 7/1/2014 07:45 AM

So, there's a thread in NB about whether a wife has a "duty" to have sex with her H. Since I'm not a part of that forum I felt compelled to post here. Marital sex is a complicated animal.

I always tried very hard to be a good wife, including sexually. I also am very interested in sex myself. In fact, I have a somewhat higher drive than my H. I have always been fit and take good care of myself. I am a kind, loving and giving wife (frankly a much better wife than my H was a H prior to Dday). I tried hard to keep things interesting with lingerie, toys, etc, and would schedule date nights, weekends away and weeklong trips to the Caribbean. However, for reasons I now understand (CSA, mother's boyfriend for years) it always had to be on my H's terms. If he didn't initiate he wasn't interested. After getting rejected over the years I told him straight out that I was no longer going to initiate and he was fine with that.

That meant that, frankly, sex was often unsatisfying for me. My H was a very selfish person, and that included sexually. His typical approach was to wait until I was almost asleep after a long day and grope me. Then it was a lazy position and a quick orgasm for him and rarely for me. I told him as gently as possible that that was not good for me, that I loved sex and wanted it when I was in the position to "want" it. Plus I loved to be kissed, caressed, have my hair stroked, etc. Kissing was not his strong suit and rarely happened. I almost always acquiesced, but sometimes would lie awake afterwards seething with anger, feeling used.

Now there were times, such as when we went away together, that he would take more time, please me, and we would have passionate sex multiple times a day. These times kept me going. In between I discovered toys and had a quite active sex life by myself, thank you very much.

BTW, in spite of having men attracted to me and tell me how sexy I was I never once even considered putting so much as a toe over the line of infidelity.

My H's LTA was frankly, not really about sex. Yes he had sex with the crazy person, but their relationship is best summed up by my H as "mutual fuckedupness". What they were doing didn't really impact on our sex life, as it was infrequent and mediocre, except that it added to his underlying depression and increased his detachment from me. At the time he had started to have the occasional "equipment problems" and I suspect that initially it made him feel more manly that it was easier to "get it up" with someone new. That wore off quickly. Once, however, looking back, when I made a comment as to how our sex life had waned recently he said something about how it would be nice if it could be more varied (said in a somewhat accusatory tone). At the time it pissed me off, as he had never once, in our entire marriage, made an effort to spice up our sex life and I said as much. Now, looking back, it pisses me off even more, since the one "variety" I can't offer is an entirely different vagina! Finding a different person to boost your libido is very lazy, IMHO.

The point to this long-winded narrative is the difference that I am now finding post D-day. Turns out my H really did hear me over all those years, he was just too closed off and selfish to make the effort. He has worked hard in IC and MC and become much more authentic, giving and present. He has turned into a wonderful and enthusiastic kisser, and we enjoy that multiple times a day. He will stroke my hair, kiss me all over, touch me in all my favorite places. Plus he makes an effort, close to daily, to make sure that I am "happy", preferably multiple times. He now loves it when I initiate and I am enjoying that immensely. I have literally not been rejected once. And not once, in close to two years, has he reached for me as I'm falling asleep. Now he wants me to be "present" and able to respond.

So is marital sex a duty? I felt as such, but now feel that it is so much more, when shared by two loving people with intimacy and respect. I am so glad that I finally get to experience that regularly.

Thanks for listening!

yearsofpain25 posted 7/1/2014 08:19 AM

Hi catlover50. No it's not a marital duty and I was getting pissed for you right up until that last paragraph. My wife and I had gone through the "room mates" phase for a few years and had many of the issues with sex that you describe. Although it was me with the higher drive and her with the sexual abuse. Throw in some medical issues on her part and some bad behaviors on my part, made for a rough few years. Make a long story short, we are where you are at now, though neither of us had an A (here on SI as a betrayed child - long story). We turned towards each other, kicked down many of our inhibitions, and are now both enjoying a very healthy sex life that works for both us.

But the root of your question where you felt it was your "marital duty" for a while is unacceptable. In our case, she wasn't going to fulfill a duty, nor would I want her to. We would just go for long periods of time without sex. Which was very frustrating for both of us but neither of us had the nerve to talk about it. Wasn't until this time last year where we changed it all up for the better.

Congrats to you on you new sex life!

yop

catlover50 posted 7/1/2014 08:25 AM

Hi yop! Thanks for your input. I actually ordered the raspberry edible lotion you recommended! I think that you are a wonderful addition to our boards.

I realize that I put up with a lot less than I deserved in a lot of ways in my marriage. I didn't do it blindly, I just could not get my H to address his issues and decided that I didn't want to divorce him. However, I never gave up trying to be the best wife I could be. At least there is no part of me that blames myself for my H's affair, however wrongheaded that would be.

Now it is so much better when both of us are putting in the effort. I envy you that you and your wife got there without having to go through the infidelity crap!

yearsofpain25 posted 7/1/2014 08:38 AM

I actually ordered the raspberry edible lotion you recommended!

Great! I hope you enjoy it and it doesn't turn out to be something you don't like. I would hate to recommend something and have it turn out not so good. That lube topic does seem to have made an impact as I've seen a few posts on it.

Dealing with our pasts is difficult, but does put things in perspective doesn't it? W and I talk regularly now and neither one of us want to go back to how it was and can't believe we didn't have these conversations years ago. We are both much happier these days and it's way more than just in the sex department. Being the best spouse we can be is admirable and something we should all strive to be, but not at the expense of ourselves IYKWIM. There is a lot cliche in the compromise and communication departments, but we plan on regular maintenance in these areas so as to not fall back into old habits. It's that effort that you mention is key. And happy to see you and your H doing so well now too because of those efforts together.

eta - typo

[This message edited by yearsofpain25 at 8:39 AM, July 1st (Tuesday)]

tearingaway posted 7/1/2014 09:42 AM

Marital sex is absolutely not a duty.

By the same token, I feel that if my wife refuses to be sexually active with me, we can't work out a solution/compromise, and she does not want to seek counseling (or some kind of medical help) with me, then I reserve the right to divorce her and move on.

seethelight posted 7/1/2014 11:13 AM

That meant that, frankly, sex was often unsatisfying for me. My H was a very selfish person, and that included sexually.

His typical approach was to wait until I was almost asleep after a long day and grope me. Then it was a lazy position and a quick orgasm for him and rarely for me. I told him as gently as possible that that was not good for me, that I loved sex and wanted it when I was in the position to "want" it.

Plus I loved to be kissed, caressed, have my hair stroked, etc. Kissing was not his strong suit and rarely happened. I almost always acquiesced, but sometimes would lie awake afterwards seething with anger, feeling used.

I have no advice, but just wanted to offer support.

My husband was never a good lover, either. Always wanted quickies. I never orgasm with quickies.

I put up with the lousy sex without complaint because there were other things that I loved about him.

The major two were that he was trustworthy and loyal. Or so I thought until dday.

I no longer have those two things to cling to anymore.

He swears he's changed, but the trust will never return.

Also, now that I know he wined and dined and romanced the OW, I am very angry that he did not treat me that way.

I don't know what his sex life with OW was like, but I know the OW, and she would NOT put up with a quickie.

Sigh.

StillGoing posted 7/1/2014 12:11 PM

Who would WANT obligation sex?

I don't think sex is a marital duty. I think framing it that way is just a way to make a miserable and unhappy marriage more important than a divorce.

People should have sex because they enjoy having sex with each other, not as some sort of obligatory fuck machine. If one person is going to be too selfish to tend to the other persons wants then there's no honor-bound requirement to be a fuck toy IMO.

catlover50 posted 7/1/2014 12:14 PM

Thanks all.

Seethelight I am doing well now. I will no longer "settle" again in my M, in any way. It's ironic that I was the "good wife", the giving and loving one and yet I got cheated on, but I'm finding that that is not at all unusual; it's often the less invested one who cheats.

And I do believe that the OW got it even worse than me; she said that she was treated like a whore, not even a card on her birthday or a text on Christmas and not a single date or snuggle.

Now I only have sex when I want to; fortunately I want to a lot!

seethelight posted 7/1/2014 13:34 PM

Seethelight I am doing well now. I will no longer "settle" again in my M, in any way. It's ironic that I was the "good wife", the giving and loving one and yet I got cheated on, but I'm finding that that is not at all unusual; it's often the less invested one who cheats.

My IC has been in the business for 30 years, and she said the same.

Typically a person who has affairs, is the taker in the relationship and the less invested one, by her own observation of 30 years of working with Betrayed and unfaithful spouses.

[This message edited by seethelight at 1:34 PM, July 1st (Tuesday)]

avicarswife posted 7/2/2014 21:11 PM

Seethelight I am doing well now. I will no longer "settle" again in my M, in any way. It's ironic that I was the "good wife", the giving and loving one and yet I got cheated on, but I'm finding that that is not at all unusual; it's often the less invested one who cheats.

I'm in this camp too. In fact even your WH's previous selfishness in bed is eerily similar.

[This message edited by avicarswife at 9:12 PM, July 2nd (Wednesday)]

cantaccept posted 7/3/2014 06:29 AM

I also read this thread in NB. It struck a chord with me, trigger big time.

Pre dday, sex was non existent. I had always had the higher sex drive. Turns out wh was using porn instead of being with me.

I stopped initiating. I stopped because of the way he treated me and spoke to me.

We only spoke of it once and he was mean about it so I never brought it up again. I just couldn't make myself vulnerable to him, he acted towards me with such contempt.

After ddays, lack of sex was a big "why".

I don't believe it. It was only a symptom of a much deeper issue.

We have discussed this recently, although very briefly. I was trying to explain why I pulled away, self protection. He says he understands. He says that he has treated everyone this way his whole life.

I do see it was on me to accept this treatment. To accept abuse was my flaw.

Not about the sex at all. Sex, to me is an expression of love, being mistreated sure does not inspire feelings of love.

catlover50 posted 7/3/2014 07:41 AM

(((can)))

Fortunately, my H did not blame me or the M in any way. He considered himself happily married and thought that I was an awesome wife! He knows now how broken he was, but at the time the A was just something he "did" in his work life that was very compartmentalized.

He did appreciate at first that the OW "needed" him so much (professionally) which was ironic because he had made it clear that he wasn't interested in meeting my needs; even so much as fixing a flat for me when the lug nuts were on too tight was an imposition. He admits that he had "trained" me to be very independent of him by being withdrawn and unhelpful--I had learned to make my own happiness, although I still worked hard to nurture our M. He now finds great pleasure in taking care of me in big and small ways.

He always knew that I was an eager and responsive lover and that he could have sex any time he wanted. He realizes now how much he took me for granted and how little effort he put into our relationship. I would do things like every Friday night fix his favorite foods and wine and have candles and soft music going when he got home from work, plan date nights every other Saturday, plan a fancy dinner out and tell him I had hidden 5 sexy things on body that he needed to find (temporary tattoo, new thong...), or once had his office manager take him to a local hotel bar for a pretend meeting and then had the waiter bring him a note that I was upstairs in a room, where I had chocolate dipped strawberries and champagne. He appreciated all these things, but never once in 28 years of our relationship before Dday had he done anything romantic. Never once.

That's all changed, thankfully. At first when our M really was improving he kept saying that I had changed too, as if somehow that made him feel less guilty. For example, I shave my legs every day now and initiate sex regularly. I reminded him gently that I had no reason to shave every day before since he never touched my legs, and I basically was discouraged from initiating. He understands that I have "blossomed" because he is finally giving as much as receiving, and that we could have had this connection all along.

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