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A summary of my vent, because this came quite long and a full-out vent =/

To sum it up: my husband TT last night and revealed that he'd had a conversation with our family friend (who I asked him to inform of the affair to be a support for my husband) a year ago saying he felt distant from me and feared he'd "stray." He was flirting with a woman at work at the time - who would later become OW#2 (though I guess she's actually OW1)

Our friend told him to stop it, now, talk to me, and seek counseling. He did none of it.

He did cut down on conversation with that woman and then started up with OW2 2 months later.

He said he didn't mention it earlier because it seemed so "minor" compared to everything else, and that I already knew about this woman so he didn't think it was relevant to mention.

Up to this conversation, I did not know that he'd ever had this conversation with the friend, nor that the woman entered the picture so early on, that the timeline started last April/May and not August. And it made me horribly aware that his jumping in with both feet with the EA/PA was very deliberate and he was fully aware of what he was doing - no slippery slope.

The full vent:

A bit of backstory, my husband's timeline for the affair was maintained as

OW#1: 8/13 - 1/14 as EA/PA, then 1/14-Dday EA

OW#2: 1/14 (though he says it didn't "get real" until 4/14) - Dday - PA and a crapton of texting related to or building up tot he PA.

When I was going through logs, I noticed infrequent late nigh conversations between him and OW#2, going all the way back to 9/13. I asked him about it, he said he didn't know. I asked him when things started with her, he maintained 4/14 was when they started really flirting/sexting/getting physical.

One of my conditions for R was that he tell his best friend, to support my husband on his bad days. The guy shares our/my family and moral values and would be there for my husband if he needed him as well as support our marriage. He told this friend last week. My husband had told me a few weeks prior to Dday that he had talked with this best friend about "issues" he was having and his friend recommended counseling. My husband swore he never told the best friend about the affairs.

Last night, I asked him how the conversation with his best friend went just so I would know what all was said (we are doing a lunch with friend today). My husband said "you mean the one I had awhile ago?"

I thought he was referencing the one a few weeks prior to dday, so I said sure that one too. He tells me

"Well I talked with him, and told him we were having some issues. And I was tempted to stray." I asked him what? he said this a few weeks before dday?

"Oh no, this was back at the beginning."

What'd the friend say? The friend said to "Turn towards your wife, talk to her, get counseling, do not go down that path. Do not. Do not."

He talked with the friend before this all started?

Well he couldn't remember the exact timeline if he'd already started talking to OW#1 or not. "So you were having thoughts of straying with onbody in particular in mind, you just wanted to?"

Well no, it must've been after OW#1 then.

"And you didn't cut it off?"

No.

I was very upset, because I felt like wow, he had his confessional moment and still deliberately chose to run after OW#1

15 minutes later, he tells me he wants to amend his statement about the conversation with his best friend about that earlier conversation.

It happened last May. before OW#1. And that he was referencing someone when he talked to the friend - OW#2 - who he had already been flirtin gwith for a couple months. "But it was minor, it was nothing compared to this."

I asked him wtf he didn't tell me that stuff with OW#2 started that early, and he says he didn't think it'd mattered since I "already knew about OW#2, so you already knew she was one of the ones." And that he stopped chatting with her so much and cut back on it so it wasn't flirting after he talked with his friend. So he'd followed what his friend said.

Uh no!? He didn't.

WTF!?! Why wouldn't it matter to me that things with her started a year prior to when I thought they did, and that as I poured through the logs since DDay and would see late night chats with her - that he'd tell me it was nothing with her "at that time." Why wouldn't it matter that the affairs in general started MONTHS before I thought it did? Why wouldn't it matter that he'd told his best friend, obviously knew he had crossed the line, and still deliberately chose to pursue OW#1 .

It makes it all that much worse. This was no slippery slope of friendly chat that turned EA then PA. This was a deliberate choice to pursue OW#1 (who apparently has the wrong freaking number) as hard as he could as soon as she started initiating contact with him. This was a deliberate choice, knowing he'd had his confession and ignored everything his friend had said, to jump straight in with two feet. There was no "I didn't know what I was doing." He knew exactly what he was doing, because he'd been there months prior and knew even then that he'd crossed the line.

I am so furious and upset. I felt like I *HAD* all the pieces of this damn puzzle and was just filling in small details. Now I come to find out he's still omitting and shielding and selectively choosing what to tell me, minimizing not telling me stuff because "I already knew" the identities of the two women.

I'm sorry for the long vent and probably should put this in JFO. We were/are trying to R this. How on earth do you deal with that kind of TTing? It ultimately doesn't change the big picture, but it does totally disrupt my sense of how long this has ben going on, his intentionality behind it, his awareness of it, his deliberate choices regarding it. And it again re-shatters my idea that I can trust anything he's saying now.

How do I handle this and future TT sessions? I feel like I'm shellshocked when he reveals that kind of stuff, then I just start raging at him, and it makes him less likely to open up and tell me anything more. But on the same token, I feel like I shouldn't have to walk on eggshells and gauge an "appropriately encouraging communication" response to make sure he feels "comfortable" telling me the full story.

I'm so furious

[This message edited by Lark at 8:30 PM, July 1st (Tuesday)]

Bumping so others can read and respond.

180 him now. Hard and fast - 180. If you need to, read about it in the Healing Library. THe reason I say this is because he is still in control. You need to detach and 180 him and show him you won't stand for it. Also or instead, give him your lines in the sand as in what he needs to do right now for you to not kick him out and file for D. Tell him these are 100 percent your demands and there is no room for negotiation.

Sorry, bad day here, but TT just pisses me off. It's bad enough to deal with this crap, but to keep covering your own ass is just wrong on levels I cannot even describe. Best wishes and keep strong!!

Thank you for the bump. I should probably edit it to just summarize it - I was so upset and furious this morning that it became an all out vent.

I'm sorry, Lark. TT is one of the most painful parts of all of this.

Has your husband created a written version of the timeline for you?

One thing about a written version of the timeline, is that it can become a "working document", where you can fill in all of the details as they surface and finally become cemented in place.

Sending strength.

deena - I have a list of conditions he had to meet, and he's met all of them and acts/talks remorseful everyday. So this was particularly unexpected. So far he's done full transparency of all his stuff and does whatever he can to make me feel safe, nc to the women, new job, new vehicle, IC, MC, told his mom, told his best friend, read the two books (he read the one 4x and is reading Not just friends now), willing to read and do anything else. He's gone over all the logs with me, filing in details and gaps. He's gone over CC bills and bank accounts (nothing major, but he did buy them stuff) and offered all of that up without me asking. So this just really took me aback.

los:

I told him we should do a written timeline for that reason, I guess I'd been thinking it would happen as part of MC. Like part of me - I know he has memory issues recalling stuff. That I know from outside of this. So I know a timeline is important

Obviously this wasn't just "forgetting" but rather rewriting details in his head of what did/didn't count and then the f*dup WS part of his head justifying the lying by omission by saying I already knew about the woman so this wasn't actually anything new.

Is this standard WS thinking? Like not even being aware of what is/isn't crossing the line early on? Are these kinds of TT normal for trying to piece together the timeline? I figured small details and filling in stuff would happen because nobody has a perfect recall of everything. And that he doesn't even apparently know what crosses the line and counts as the "start" is pretty alarming to me.

Ok...

The best I can tell you to help you with this is that you're applying rational thinking to irrational decision making.

Obviously hindsight is 20/20. It's easy to look back now and see where a different choice had been made.

If he was feeling like he was going to stray, he was likely already in some type of affair, even if it was an EA. He's getting good feelings and then that becomes like a drug. You want more of those endorphins. So he likely didn't want to turn away because he was getting those good feelings. The endorphins sort of supersede rational thought.

Listen... He knew what he was doing was wrong, which is why he hid it from you. Does it make a difference at which point he knew it was wrong? What if that conversation never happened and he cheated anyway? He still knew it was wrong. He still did it anyway. That's the wayward behavior.

I think you're probably stuck in the rationalizing cycle (I know it well!) on your way to acceptance. Don't try to explain his behavior...you will never be able to. No matter what, it just doesn't make sense.

It's true, I am trying to make sense of it. For some reason, it just makes it seem so much worse that he had several "wake up" confessional conversations... and then resumed or began affairs within days.

I've poured through text logs and gotten a better timeline. The conversation happened in July, he never stopped messaging the girl he was flirting with, it was just that it all began up with OW#1 4 days later and he no longer had time to keep up with flirting with the first.

Sadly, pouring through the logs in that month, I see he and I exchanged a ton of texts. The minute - literally the minute - the first text with OW#1 went through, he stopped texting/calling me completely (he'd text from work before this)

What a freaking mess.