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Newest Member: SadDadOf3 (46038)

User Topic: Therapist Comment - Input Please
steppingup
♂ 42650
Member # 42650
Default  Posted: 11:30 AM, July 8th (Tuesday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

The other day in MC, the therapist said, “Steppingup well, if you cannot give your wife what she needs (even though she will not clearly state what it is), she will simply go out and cheat on your again. Originally the reason given for the cheating was the typical “low self esteem”.

What does this say about the therapist?

What does this say about my WW?

I asked my WW what she thought of that statement, she said she didn’t agree with it.

Who is telling the truth here? It was such a poignant statement.


Her (WW 40s) Me (BH, 40s) very young DS & DD

Posts: 740 | Registered: Mar 2014 | From: CALI
tushnurse
♀ 21101
Member # 21101
Default  Posted: 11:39 AM, July 8th (Tuesday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I think if your wife can't own what she did, and figure out her why of cheating then she is absolutely bound to do it again. Whether that's low self esteem, and need for validation, to being a narcissist, to being depressed, and getting that temporary boost.

She HAS to figure that out, and do the hard work to figure out fix it. That does not fall on you. You have ZERO ownness in her choice and her brokenness. Now you can be her cheerleader, and biggest fan when she starts to do the work.

Not sure if the therapist was saying your wife is bound to cheat again until she figures her shit out. If the therapist was squarely placing the reasons for her A on your shoulders then you need to find another one, one that has done extensive work in the field of infidelity.

It's not enough to say yup I did this, but it was because I had low self esteem. Fix me. NOPE she has to fix herself. The only person any of us controls, and can make long lasting changes to is ourselves.


Me: FBS
Him: FWS
Kids: 15 & 17
Married for 22 years now, was 16 at the time. .
D-Day Sept 26 2008
Fully R'd, and Happy Happy Happy

Posts: 8898 | Registered: Oct 2008 | From: St. Louis
confused615
♀ 30826
Member # 30826
Default  Posted: 11:41 AM, July 8th (Tuesday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I think it sounds like the therapist is saying it is your responsibility to keep your wife faithful.

I'd get a new MC. An MC who gives bad advice can do far more harm than good.


BS(me)42
FWH 45
4 kids
M: June 2001
D-Day: 8/10/10
Status: Reconciled.

..that feeling you get in your stomach, when you heart's broken. It's like all the butterflies just died.


Posts: 8086 | Registered: Jan 2011 | From: Indiana
tfkeel
♂ 19517
Member # 19517
Default  Posted: 11:42 AM, July 8th (Tuesday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

The therapist is a bozo.

Your wife doesn't agree, your wife should be doing her own therapy.



Posts: 684 | Registered: May 2008 | From: Pennsylvania
Didact
♂ 42867
Member # 42867
Default  Posted: 12:55 PM, July 8th (Tuesday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Your therapist works for you, not the other way around. You can choose to replace them or you can choose to set some guidelines as well.

Something along the lines of "I know you may not agree that {whatever is really important to you}, but the fact is that this is really important to me, and we will address it. If we don't, the marriage won't survive."

I have some FOO issues that, combined with some brutal facts from the affair, required me to do something similar. In that case, I'm not sure that my requirements were normally necessary for healing, but they were for me in my case. The therapist recognized them for what they were and worked with us on them. That's their job!


No matter how painful, life either adapts or it dies.

BH (Me) 49
WW 48
Married 1985
D-Day Mar 19, 2014
1 year passionate EA/PA, ended by me on d-day.
Attempting to R


Posts: 270 | Registered: Mar 2014 | From: PNW
seethelight
♀ 43513
Member # 43513
Default  Posted: 1:07 PM, July 8th (Tuesday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

The other day in MC, the therapist said, “Steppingup well, if you cannot give your wife what she needs (even though she will not clearly state what it is), she will simply go out and cheat on your again. Originally the reason given for the cheating was the typical “low self esteem”.

What does this say about the therapist?

What does this say about my WW?

From the outside looking in, and based only on this above information, I think it means your MC is telling you that your wife has deep issues and can not articulate her position well.

It appears he is simply enlightening you to a fact about your wife as he diagnoses it.

I think it seems open ended as to whether or not he thinks you should just put up with it.

I think he just wants to stimulate your thought process.

From the outside, it seems the therapist thinks it will be difficult to change her.

He is telling you that if you can't deal with that, you need to face that.

Has your wife been diagnosed with a personality disorder like BPD, HPD, or NPD?

Most people who can't cope with life's difficulties in a mature, ethical way do have low self esteem as do people with personality disorders.

So I think that original claim was just a tentative reason rather than a definitive one.

Still, as Tushnurse has stated, if you feel the therapist is blaming you for the affair, or rugsweeping, maybe it's time to find another therapist.

You need to feel safe with your therapist for therapy to benefit you.

The affair was NOT your fault.

That doesn't mean the therapist should not challenge your thinking. It simply means he should not rugsweep or tell you the affair is your fault.

You had no choice about the affair. It was not your fault.

As for your wife not agreeing with the statement... I don't think you can count on her words now. Actions are what take precedence.

People who have affairs often use denial to justify their actions.


“If two people truly have feelings for one another then they don’t have an affair. They get a divorce and they sort out their feelings. You are accountable for the people you hold hostage in a marriage when your mind and heart refuse to fully commit

Posts: 1516 | Registered: May 2014
brokeninfl
♀ 21896
Member # 21896
Default  Posted: 1:07 PM, July 8th (Tuesday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I think it sounds like the therapist is saying it is your responsibility to keep your wife faithful.
I'd get a new MC. An MC who gives bad advice can do far more harm than good.

^^^^ This 100%

Your WW may not have been happy. There may have been things that you could have done that would have helped make her more satisfied in the relationship -- but frankly, there may NOT have been. I've seen PLEANTY of WS admit there was NOTHING there BS was doing/not doing that caused dissatisfaction.

BUT, the REAL point is -- so what? So what if you weren't giving her "something she needed". It's HER responsibility to 1) Talk to you 2) Talk to you again 3) Suggest counseling and, if it's really making her that unhappy, and you really won't change 4) choose to divorce.

There's no amount of "need fulfillment" that will "keep" a WS from cheating, because that response to real or perceived issues isn't in your control. It's not. Her decision to cheat is on her -- it speaks to her (unhealthy) cooping mechanisms and a plethora of other disordered thinking (compartmentalizing, justifying, rationalizing etc.)

I'm glad your WW didn't agree. I think that is a good sign. She knows this isn't your fault, which means YOUR actions can make/not make her do anything.

Definitely look into a new therapist.


"On the other side of fear lies freedom"

Me - 36 BS
Him - doesn't matter
2 DS
DD 11/08
Divorced.


Posts: 1074 | Registered: Dec 2008
Mom-of-4
♀ 29927
Member # 29927
Default  Posted: 1:12 PM, July 8th (Tuesday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

With all do respect Steppingup, your wife's fidelity is NOT dependent upon what you do; it is dependent upon HER! If she chooses to CHEAT on You, that's NOT your fault. She can either handle her marriage difficulties WITHIN her marriage OR she should be OUT OF YOUR LIFE- along with that STUPID therapist. Like I have said in the past, people on SI know a lot more about Infidelity and the Reconciliation process that therapists who only know about it second-hand.

Read the Healing Library...


Me- BS 42
WH-43-5 month PA- outed when I was 28 weeks pregnant with baby #4
Married-13 yrs
Children- 5 children under the age of 10
OW- his boss' wife, a "friend"

*Winners never cheat and cheaters never win*


Posts: 213 | Registered: Oct 2010 | From: The South
KatieG
♀ 41222
Member # 41222
Default  Posted: 1:12 PM, July 8th (Tuesday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Wow, first reading I thought your therapist was saying its your fault, what they actually might be saying is there's no hope.

Hmm, still with the first one though. That's bad feedback but good you and your wife could discuss. Ask your MC next time what was meant by that and challenge it - you run your own life.


DD#1 - 6th Oct 13 - TT
DD#2 - 9th Nov 13 - Full disclosure
DD#3 - 12th May 14 - FOG lifted and in R
7 week A, 2 weeks together, rest phone and email - PA and EA

Posts: 514 | Registered: Nov 2013
sisoon
♂ 31240
Member # 31240
Default  Posted: 2:16 PM, July 8th (Tuesday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

The MC is saying s/he's out of her/his depth with you and your W.

There's nothing you can do to keep your W faithful; it's her choice. Yet your MC is saying your W won't cheat again if you meet her needs. Well, yeah, in a sense, but the best prevention is for your W to learn to meet her own needs.

I'm not sure what 'typical low self esteem' is. There are lots of variations.

What's this MC doing WRT IC for your W?


fBH (me) - 70 (22 in my head), fWW (plainsong) - 65+, Married 45+, together since 1965
DDay - 12/22/2010
Recover'd and R'ed
I share my own experience because it's the only experience I know, not because I'm a good model.

Posts: 10758 | Registered: Feb 2011 | From: Chicago area
steppingup
♂ 42650
Member # 42650
Default  Posted: 2:28 PM, July 8th (Tuesday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

What's this MC doing WRT IC for your W?

The MC is my WW personal counselor not mine.

I'm thinking that might have been a way that her therapist who just met me is trying to tell me that she is capable of fidelity but she cannot even figure out what this F-ed "magic" the OM seems to be able to create in the world of unicorns and rainbows of thier affair (ongoing - f-edupness).


Her (WW 40s) Me (BH, 40s) very young DS & DD

Posts: 740 | Registered: Mar 2014 | From: CALI
1Faith
♀ 38975
Member # 38975
DOH!  Posted: 2:35 PM, July 8th (Tuesday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I would ask the therapist what he/she means by the statement.

To many of the replies:

Is this because your WW can't figure out what she wants or is it being placed at your feet to figure out?

"At $___ an hour, I would like a bit more clarity on your statement, please".

Regardless of what you do or don't do it will be your WW choice if she choses to cheat. Her choice to betray, to lie, to manipulate, to compartmentalize. That is all on her.

Besides this statement, how did you feel about your MC?

If this is just the latest of comments, I would say try another MC. Our first one told me to get a massage and "everything would start to get better..." needless to say we didn't return.

Good luck. And remember you being in MC in the first place with your WW is a gift. You are trying and you are by her side. That in itself speaks volumes.

(((hugs)))


"I can be changed by what happens to me. But I refuse to be reduced by it." - Maya Angelou

Posts: 1337 | Registered: Apr 2013
steppingup
♂ 42650
Member # 42650
Default  Posted: 3:31 PM, July 8th (Tuesday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

1 Faith, thank you for your comments. Yes I am by her side, I am her protector and she takes that for granted much. I have had several D days with her, she is hurting feeling small and very shameful of what she is putting our family through (we have little kids).

The first session was a blood bath, she felt like a caged animal. The MC asked me how angry I was, she baited me to show my WW. I screamed at the top of my lungs, RAGE old unprocessed RAGE came out, it was much to experience, both the MC and my WW started to cry.

Most of the meeting my WW refused to speak and I keep filling the empty space with how I was feeling. My WW is challanged to take responsibility for this, which is slowing down this process much. We are 4 months into this new affair and basically we have gotten nowhere. Its sickening.

The MC is trying but I think she is telling me that this is a lost cause, becasue there is no actions my WW will take. For example my WW refuses to go NC, which mitigates any recovery and healing.

I realy dont understand these "Cheater" types. I cannot get it into my head, how they do these things, how they say they Love Us but lie, and intentionally decieve etc. I dont get it, can anyone explain it to me?

[This message edited by steppingup at 3:33 PM, July 8th (Tuesday)]


Her (WW 40s) Me (BH, 40s) very young DS & DD

Posts: 740 | Registered: Mar 2014 | From: CALI
1Faith
♀ 38975
Member # 38975
Default  Posted: 5:06 PM, July 8th (Tuesday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I am sorry for you, for all of us.

If your WW is not willing to go NC, then what is the point of IC or MC?

You can't work on your marriage with three of you in it.

If your WW is not willing to stop contact with the OM then why is she staying in the marriage?

You deserve more. Look up the 180. You can't nice her or love her into wanting your marriage. She has to want it just as much (or more at this point of her affair) as you. If the OM is still in the picture there is nothing to fix.

I am so sorry for you. Please look into IC for yourself. You will need help navigating these waters. You and your children deserve honesty and truth.

Many hugs.


"I can be changed by what happens to me. But I refuse to be reduced by it." - Maya Angelou

Posts: 1337 | Registered: Apr 2013
steppingup
♂ 42650
Member # 42650
Default  Posted: 5:35 PM, July 8th (Tuesday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

1Faith: That continutes to be the issue, the OM is still the confidant and someone she is having an EA with (perhaps PA but she says absolutely not)...who knows, right?

I was arguing with her last night she wants to see a new me..a new me? what about me? how can I heal and want to be connected to someone who will not let go? It makes no sense whatsoever.

She needs the IC I will keep going to IC. But yes the point of MC, which was her idea makes little sense unless she wants to have an open marriage which I think is BULL SHIT, and I will not tolerate it.

She is trying hard to have her cake and eat it too. The OM makes her feel good about herself and she limits how I can make her feel since she is getting ego kibble from the hands of a home wrecker Ahole. I think she has a distrubance like NPD or such, perhaps a sociopath...

a sickness, much and her spirituality is lost, she blames God for this.


Her (WW 40s) Me (BH, 40s) very young DS & DD

Posts: 740 | Registered: Mar 2014 | From: CALI
meleanoro
♀ 6210
Member # 6210
Default  Posted: 7:47 PM, July 8th (Tuesday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Hi steppingup,

The MC is trying but I think she is telling me that this is a lost cause, becasue there is no actions my WW will take. For example my WW refuses to go NC, which mitigates any recovery and healing.

I had an IC do the same with me. It took me quite a while to nut out that he wasn't excusing my WH at all, but rather trying to be forthright with me: that my H seemed to have little interest in facing himself, would continue to pass off responsibility to me (passive aggressive) and he (IC) had little hope for that changing. And this was all without him meeting my H.

But in your case, I think asking MC for clarification would be good. Ethically (for MC, since she was your wife's IC) are you able to meet with this person alone to get clarity?



Me: Tired BS.
(I frequently edit for typos)

Posts: 290 | Registered: Jan 2005
Tom67
♂ 42664
Member # 42664
Default  Posted: 8:14 PM, July 8th (Tuesday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

With her not going no contact MC is a waste of money and your time.
You have to be willing to end the marriage in order to save it at this point.

Posts: 318 | Registered: Mar 2014 | From: United States
TheGivingTree
♀ 43672
Member # 43672
Default  Posted: 10:20 PM, July 8th (Tuesday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Steppingup, I am so sorry you are here. Gently, it doesn't matter how much or how hard you are willing to work, if there are 3 of you in the marriage, it just won't get better. I suggest you read up on the 180, and start practicing it immediately. This is to help you, not you WS. WS has to want to do her own work, and frankly from the situation you've described, she's just not interested in doing it.

{{{Steppingup}}}


Me: FBW, 48. Him: SAFWH, 57
3 fantastic kids: DS 17, DS 15, DD 11
DDay 1: 1/8/13, multiple DDays with TT for an entire year.

Working hard at R.
If all you wanted was love, why would you use me up, cut me down, build a boat and sail aw


Posts: 105 | Registered: Jun 2014 | From: San Francisco
LA44
♀ 38384
Member # 38384
Default  Posted: 10:30 PM, July 8th (Tuesday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

she blames God for this.

How convenient.

I am her protector and she takes that for granted much. I have had several D days with her, she is hurting feeling small and very shameful of what she is putting our family through (we have little kids).

She is not just taking it for granted. She is abusing you. She is abusing your relationship. She is hurting and feeling small and yet she refuses to go NC?

What someone else said...you deserve better, as do your children.

Step out of this charade for a bit. Read up about the 180. Start protecting yourself steppingup bc she sure as hell isn't going to do it.

[This message edited by LA44 at 10:30 PM, July 8th (Tuesday)]


Me: 44
He: 47 WH
Married: 15 years
D Day: December 2012
Affair: Fall 2009 - Dec. 2011
R is not linear

Posts: 2677 | Registered: Feb 2013 | From: Canada, eh
steppingup
♂ 42650
Member # 42650
Default  Posted: 3:56 PM, July 14th (Monday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

In MC I told her she was emotionally abusing me and she went nuts!!!!

that was a trigger for her, a red flag as she says and it caused much debate.

For her, emotional abuse means she is trying to hurt me intentionally, and she cannot see that she doesn't have to want to hurt me, when she can stop the hurt and acts not to stop it is like intentional hurt, and yes Gosh Darn It ABUSE, EMOTIONAL ABUSE!


Her (WW 40s) Me (BH, 40s) very young DS & DD

Posts: 740 | Registered: Mar 2014 | From: CALI
Topic Posts: 31
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