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ILINIA posted 7/8/2014 17:10 PM

WARNING: Another long ILINIA post and probably TMI. I am trying to overcome another topic in IC, but since I haven’t been successful, I am tossing out to SI to try and see it differently.

In IC, I was saying it seems like A have some sort of “hook” that the WS and AP latch onto in order to justify and continue the A. Some of the hooks are lurve, soul mates, KISA, the wronged or trapped spouse, etc. My husband admitted to our MC he played the “wronged husband” role which is confirmed with the chat logs, texts, and emails.

This is hard for me to get past because instead of compartmentalizing, he put me smack dab in the middle with false stories about me. It is one thing to generalize and say you have a boring or non-existent sex life, but in the chat logs WH makes me out to be dull, cold, deformed and sexually handicapped. COW “picks” on me in the chat logs and they both make jokes about me. For sake of length, I will only include two of the strange "tall tales" he told so you can get an idea:

Example A• BW has a permanent period. When COW said BW should see a doctor, he replied that BW has, but BW rejected any sort of medical intervention. COW comments about BW basically being an idiot. (My comments: A permanent period? Seriously? So not only am I bloody, weak, and anemic, but I have dissed any sort of medical help? For the record, my period lasts 5 days and two of those days are off limits for sex. WH knows this.)

Example B• BW’s clitoris was damaged after giving birth to our kids, therefore, BW hasn’t been able to orgasm for several years. Their conversation turns to her telling him to buy me a vibrator, because hardly a day passes that she doesn't orgasm with a BOB. WH claims BW just isn't interested in sex, so a BOB is not going to help. (My comments: Okay, first I am ticked that he is talking to another person about my clitoris and orgasms?!? Secondly, my clitoris remained unharmed during the births. In fact, I told him I am more sensitive down there after childbirth, so I don’t need as much foreplay. Thirdly, I haven't orgasmed in YEARS? Really? WH knows that is a lie. And the COW acting like the great sex expert and marriage counselor, nice. )

In every conversation, they talk about work, how great, hot, and/or successful they were that day, and me. I was the fuel for the A. It is like the drama triangle and he is the “victim” of our marriage, I am the “perpetrator” and she takes on the KISA role. The wronged husband role worked and both of them ganged-up to battle the “oppressive ILINIA”. COW offers to do ANYTHING he’s interested in () and even gives my poor little WS more marriage advice. The night after the PA, he told COW that “she helped him more than she would ever know.” (Maybe he will be nominated for an Oscar….)

My struggle is that he made me this crazy caricature, he portrayed himself as this pitiful “wronged husband”, he lied about me, and he made jokes about me, AND he let her make jokes about me. My IC says if they are lies, it shouldn’t bother me and it should be easier to let it go. Yes, the blatant lies bother me, but it bothers me more because HE WAS MY HUSBAND and he treated worse than anyone ever has. I trusted him and he threw me to the fire without any hesitation. He didn’t respect, honor, or protect me as a human being, much less his wife. I get he wasn’t at his best, but why couldn’t I have been left out of it?

For anyone else who was put in the center of the A how do you work through it? As always, 2x4’s welcome.

Regainingsanity posted 7/8/2014 17:44 PM

Dear Ilinia,
What can I say, I am just getting out of that situation myself. I don't mean divorce, I had to take matters into hands I had to contact their boss and inform him of this sticky situation. Fastforward to right now is WH and COW are no longer talking and its pretty much prohibited or they both lose their very well paid jobs.Yes you can say its a bit dramatic, which is what my WH calls me( DramaQueen) but I'm fighting for my marriage. I am not a sore loser and I know when a battle has been fought and its time to give up. Unfortunately my WH along with other men "fall in love" as soon as they start the PA. I am the crazy, drama queen, cold-hearted, cruel, good for nothing, seeking only monetary security, uneducated unsophisticated stay at home mother, with a bad attitude and nothing in common with my WH. Out of nowhere this COW comes in , same job, same aspirations, same goals, same background, get along, love going hiking , don't want kids(even though he has 3 children, 2 with me 1 with ex-wife) and love to travel.
Let me just cut it short, they both know they are in the wrong, they know what they are doing is completely and terribly destroying something precious and treasured. They are just trying to justify their current A. It sucks that you're going through this and its not even a fair game, its two against one. Not any type of battle but an emotional, spiritual and physical battle. Just know that you are the one being wronged. They know, they both know but the try so hard to justify each other and encourage each other to not give up on the adultery. Keep your head up, you are worth so much by just sticking in after all this nonsense. You are an amazing woman that just by staying means forgiveness. You have amazing traits in you and by being so hurt by your husband shows the deep trust and love you had/have for him. Try to learn from this A and see what you can improve yourself in. I learned I had a few things my husband was spot on. After changing them he wont have anything against you. If you do any changes do it for you. Sometimes we can't see our flaws but others do. Unfortunately your WH and my WH didn't sit down and talk to us and told us about them, they just looked for someone else who flaunt those same flaws. Focus on yourself and be the wife any man would desire. Show him who's boss!!! Im praying for you sister!!

Me: 26
Him: 30
Married: 4 years (5 together)
DD-4 DD2 DstepS-5
DDay: sep 4 2012
6 month EA/PA
Dday #2: june 6 2014
EA/PA with COW older than WH

Scubadoo posted 7/8/2014 18:17 PM

Those types of texts sound sooooo familiar. My WH and his slunt had many convos about me. I couldn't believe the actual blatant LIES he was telling her about me. My favorite was that he overheard my mother and I pre-spending his life insurance money on a new car for me. HaHa. That's how mean and insensitive I was. (He told her he had an inoperable brain tumor). So it wasn't just me he was lying about. When I asked him about this his response was he didn't know why he lied like that, it just made her more sympathetic to him blah blah blah. The thing that actually helps me is the fact that the things he said were lies. Now I tell him he better up the payout on that insurance, because my taste in cars just got a whole lot more expensive.

plainpain posted 7/8/2014 18:40 PM

(((Ilinia)))

I want to hug you IRL. That is so, so hard. Honestly, there were so many betrayals on every level, but I have grasped onto the one mercy that he did not discuss me with OW. He compartmentalized me right out of existence.

Except for one time. He admitted he told OW a sexual fantasy of his that I had finally fulfilled after SEVEN YEARS of asking... because he was hoping that she would do the same. I was and am utterly humiliated. How much more cruel could he have been, than to actually hand me over to my enemy. After he told me that, I laid on the floor sobbing and writhing in pain for over an hour.

I don't think it matters one bit if the things your WH said were true or not. Your MC is wrong. It isn't about what OW thinks about you - it is about the knowledge of the depth of cruelty, selfishness and betrayal that the person you loved and trusted was capable of against you. Not only did he lie to you, but he lied about you. You were never out of his thoughts - he actually used you to get close to her.

I hope your WH understands the depth of the pain he has inflicted. You so did not deserve that.

It seems so blah to just keep saying "A brain"... but I think once some men give in to that place of depravity, they just go both feet in. My WH was like that. He went from an A to prostitutes, massage parlours and on-line dating. Like, what the hell, I already f**ked up, who cares any more? No boundaries, no morals, no line in the sand, no "maybe that's going too far". They already knew they had done the unforgivable - who or how or where or when or why were irrelevant after that. That proverbial line in the sand was already crossed, so my H just went for a frolic. Selfish, selfish, selfish. I didn't even know who he was - he horrified himself when he came out of it. I hope your WH is equally horrified. :(

plainpain posted 7/8/2014 18:47 PM

I will add that, for the entirety of the A, my WH was deeply addicted to porn. Honestly, I don't think I was even a person to him during that time. I was an extension of him, like his work, like his children, like his vehicle... something that served a function. So, even though your WH was technically talking about you, it wasn't really YOU he was talking about. Don't know if that makes sense. Like some kind of disassociation. My WH said during the A that he thought he was bi-polar. I think As and mental illness are closely related.

DixieD posted 7/8/2014 19:14 PM

It is like the drama triangle and he is the “victim” of our marriage, I am the “perpetrator” and she takes on the KISA role.

Absolutely!! I think that happens more times than not. I know my husband played a victim too. He was a victim in his own mind. He was so hard-done-by. Honestly, it was a crock of sh!t. He needed you to be in the middle of it, because without you they would have had nothing. You were needed to move it along.

I know that hurts.

I think the BS is often part of the affair, even if the WS doesn't realize it at that time. I realized this after the fact. I did a 180 on my husband when the affair was going on. I wasn't aware he was having an affair, I just thought he was a jerk. The more I pulled away, the less interesting AP became and the more attention he wanted from me. I was pretty important to the equation. I was needed to play a role I didn't even know I was cast in and when I wasn't going along with the script, that meant the story wasn't interesting anymore.

I realized my husband was emotionally immature. He was about on par with a teenage boy. He looked like a man, and acted very responsible, so people would have been very surprised. He had me fooled. He had himself fooled, but he lacked the maturity needed. He acted like he was acting out against a parent when he was suppose to be my partner.

What helped me was when I could see he was emotionally maturing after dday. He had what it took to make amends and grow up. But I had to come to terms with the fact that I married someone so emotionally immature. It all hurt. I was angry and resentful about it for a long time.

((((Ilinia))))

hopingforhappy posted 7/8/2014 19:20 PM

This might have been the worst part of the A for me. The lies that he told OW about me. I am a SAHM and he told her that I didn't keep the house clean, that I messed up our finances regularly and he had to come in and straighten them out and that he had to take care of our children, because I would not. Now, he claims he said all of that stuff to keep her at bay, as an excuse not to leave me (he children needed him, could not be left with their neglectful mother). None of it was true, but it hurt very badly. I am sorry that you are having to deal with this. it just sucks. Not because of what she thought about me, but because he could be so disloyal and cruel. I guess it is all part of the package.

bionicgal posted 7/8/2014 22:58 PM

Plainpain. .read my tagline. . .couldn't agree more about affairs being like mental disorders. It is like a mental break for many people...it was for my husband.

Lovedyoumore posted 7/9/2014 00:28 AM

I think the OW got off on tacking up my slack.

I was the stupid, lazy SAHW that just spent money and lived like a slug. My H told her some truths and more lies about our relationship to convince himself our marriage was horrible. The end affect was the OW gobbled up his neediness that he presented her and used it to snowball their special love.

I may have not been the center, but it was definitely the reluctant catalyst for their coupling. The OW used everything he told her, magnified it back to him and it kept rolling, so in a short time I was the worst wife known to man.

As far as sexual it was more a frequency discussion, but just that hurt like hell. There was probably more, he just will not admit it.

I hurt for you Ilinia. Your most inner place was violated. They abused you mercilessly in their shallow attempt to make themselves feel better about their actions. I hope he realizes what he has done in this respect.

Chinadoll30 posted 7/9/2014 06:21 AM

I don't know that I was the "hook", but I know that WH made me into this awful caricature in his head to justify what he was doing. I was the cold, frigid, unloving, unforgiving wife while he was the poor victim. It is so much easier to betray the me he made in his head than to face the reality of the situation when the responsibility for our marital troubles was 100% his. It definitely hurts, but I cling to the truth. And the fact that WH admits the real truth now. My concern is that it was so easy for him to turn everything against me, and he is in IC now, but that ability will always be there.

ILINIA posted 7/9/2014 09:20 AM

Thanks for sharing your stories and "getting it"! This ugly EA/PA was one week, so I just get floored about how much of it was about me.

Regainingsanity - It is so hard to wrap my head around it. I married him because I felt loved and thought he would do anything to make sure we were protected, especially once we had a family. So post A it just seems to rewrite everything I thought and felt.

Scubadoo - I did have to smile at yours, so thanks! Some of the lies are so blatant, I cannot get how anyone can believe them, but I guess if you are that needy and desperate you will accept anything for justification.

Plainpain, Hopingtobehappy, Lovedyoumore, & Chinadoll - It is cruel and so hard to accept that he didn't have one ounce of compassion for me. During this week, I confronted him about his behavior and said "I want us to fight for our marriage, but if you don't want to fight, I am not afraid of divorce." He tells ME our marriage is worth it and he going to FIGHT for us. I actually believed him. That night he texts the COW and tells her I am now talking about us getting a divorce and that basically we are done. He twisted my words to further his agenda. I was just a pawn in this sick game. That is what he called it "a game" and I know he didn't feel anything towards her and he acknowledges she was the "first willing prop". He figured out the buttons to push so she could feel good about herself and she knew what buttons on his to push as well.

DixieD - I think we married the same manchild! We we talk about this in MC, I too was slotted in a "parent role" in WH's head. He acted-out and hid many things from me, sometimes irrelevant things just to feel like he had power. I think this is what bothers me as I just thought he was introverted, I would talk about us and it never seems like he was engaged and would blow me off. During the A, he would text things like "Not on iMessage, so need to limit our communication until I'm on wireless again." I felt like he was a frickin' teenage boy sneaking around trying to outwit his mom. I thought we were partners and teammates and we had each other's back!

Thanks SI for walking me through this. I am trying. I have days where I "get" how his issues compounded and I try to see it as a mental break, but still get caughtup with the way he used me. It seems so purposeful and calculated. He is in IC too and is working through his issues as me being a parent, entitlement and selfishness, and different resentments he had towards me, which again, I never knew. Also, I think I may change IC's, I would really love to find one that specializes in infidelity.

MissMouseMo posted 7/9/2014 16:50 PM

I may be wrong but I think your therapist is completely missing the point. It isn't the lies and it d*mn sure isn't about you letting go - it's that they conspired against you and you are trying to reconcile with the enemy in that dandy little narrative!

That counselor needs to recognize the depth of this wound. It sounds like they have made it out to be a schoolyard tiff when this it was emotional assassination perpetrated by your most trusted ally.

I may be wrong, just my 2 cents.

whattheh posted 7/9/2014 17:05 PM

My fWH said I was cheating on him to CL hookup candidates.

He even set up a fake email after OW told me about A pretending to be me and asking for her to send any future emails and pics to that email. He was pretending to be me and had the fake me say I was cheating and needed ammo for a bogus Divorce fake me was planning. His intent in his panic at being discovered was to have her send all the emails and pics to him instead of me. He had already deleted all his stuff.

I found this email in fWH real email trash. OW had forwarded to his real email in an effort to expose what the fake me was up to. Crazy stuff and my intuition woke me up and said check his email trash.

It was very difficult to get past the fact that he was conspiring with her against me even if it was all pretend to get rid of her. I don't like that I was used like this and that any of my personal info was disclosed

OW was M too and threw her BH under the bus describing very personal things and stories which I also now know.

[This message edited by whattheh at 5:12 PM, July 9th (Wednesday)]

SisterMilkshake posted 7/9/2014 17:07 PM

I think MissMouseMo hit the nail on the head, ILINIA. I also believe you fully understand the dynamic of the drama triangle and the role you were cast in.

If your IC/MC's, WH would really realize and validate how this was deeply wounding to you, maybe you will be able to heal from this and move forward from this particular pile of shit in the affair.

For me, I was on the opposite spectrum. I wasn't spoken about. I. Did. Not. Exist. Oh, yeah, AP knew all about me, but in shmoopie land, there was no BS's.

(((ILINIA)))

peoplepleaser posted 7/9/2014 18:15 PM

Yes. I was the hook both times. First by the OW who lied about how I felt about WS when we were struggling, then initiated by WS with AP2 in an attempt to "save" our relationship.

It's not about truth. My WS believed both times I was a hateful monster. Kept telling me after that they knew how much she loved me. Ugh. That only made her look good for loving such a horrible monster. It's sickening and sad. And it's difficult to get past. I'm sorry you had the same.

Unfortunately it extended to close friends who took sides and trashed me with her during our separation. Of course she cheated. I was so horrible. And she's so good because she hides her feelings and makes everyone comfortable. It's maddening. The truth ends up not mattering. A therapist should get that. That's the tough realization about all of this. Recognizing that our own truth was not only flawed, but that personal truths are easily manipulated and accepted by those you think care about you. You can't find solace in the truth when nobody sees it.