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It's been 6 years since WH 10 month love affair with 30 year younger goldigger, 3 years since 6 mo. separation where WH went back to her. So much TT, lack of remorse, blame shifting, lying to therapist, MC, pastor, all the usual BS. I wanted and needed details, he fought me every step of the way. Didn't do what I needed to heal but berated me for not healing. His solution was to rugsweep.

Things are better now. Both of us are in programs that we take seriously to address and solve our issues. His is anger, mine is codependency. He is working hard and I see the changes, I appreciate his desire to get to be the best version of himself, regain his integrity, be the man he was before his mid-life crisis, be less selfish, more thoughtful, have compassion. All of these things are wonderful. And I've worked on myself too. I finally value myself. I stand up for myself. That's a huge thing for me.

My husband NEVER wanted to talk about his affair, he never wanted to figure out why he did it other than to say he was angry at me, he never wanted to disclose anything without a blowout fight. Tonight H and I are talking honestly about our relationship and what we want. I tell H I need to be able to be real and authentic about my feelings instead of denying or altering my feelings in order not to upset/offend him. He said "great, as long as we don't talk about my affair because that's a deal breaker." What?!?! So years later after having to heal without his help, he wants me to never mention his affair again. Really? That's the only way we can make this marriage work after 34 years? You get what you want and I get to hold my hurt inside never to be spoken of again? Really?

I told him I understood it was a deal breaker for him because his ultimatum is a deal breaker for me. Opinions?

I told him I understood it was a deal breaker for him because his ultimatum is a deal breaker for me. Opinions?

I think you summed it up perfectly and I hope you enforce it. Your request is not unreasonable and your reply to him was to the point. Good answer.

I think if he's been through therapy and MC, he should recognize the fact that the two of you need to talk about the A to get over it - through it - and continue healing.

I think your ultimatum is correct.

However, if you don't back it up, then it holds no water and just tells him you don't stand by your word.

If you say it, you need to be sure to BACK IT UP.

I told him I understood it was a deal breaker for him because his ultimatum is a deal breaker for me. Opinions?

I hope this doesn't sound weird or condescending, but holy shit, am I ever proud of you for that response! You expressed yourself perfectly.

Now please be prepared to back it up. He doesn't get to stomp on your heart, screw someone else, and then tell you "Let's just forget that ever happened."

I agree with you completely. He should be willing to discuss it as long as you need to. He has some nerve giving you an ultimatum after what he has put you through.

Please read "Not Just Friends". It details the steps necessary for reconciliation and healing. Basically, he is in charge of your healing. With true remorse, he is responsible to answer all of your questions, and abide all your emotions.

Doesn't sound like he's anywhere near this. This is not true reconciliation. You may have to make some choices.

Sorry for the 2 x 4. Good luck.

Thanks everyone for your affirming replies. Amazing how you all pretty much said the same thing. Without ever meeting my H, you all have come to the same conclusion about him. This is a man who truly never believed it was his responsibility to help me heal. He never believed he needed to do anything more than apologize for 'his bad behavior' and have us move on with the future and forget the past. With all his counseling I truly believed he was "getting it". But a tiger can't change his stripes. A narcissist can't really change into a compassionate, empathetic person. He is inherently selfish...always has been, always will be.

It's funny. For years every time we talked about divorce, it was always a hateful discussion with lots of drama. Last night, it was totally calm. We both said we couldn't live with the others ultimatum so it had to be over. No tears, no yelling, no financial threats on his part, just us agreeing that we're done.

I may not be totally emotionally ready for this next part of my life, but I know now that I'm worth more than just getting to live in HIS world. Thanks again everyone for confirming what I already knew. He became a weapon of mass destruction, blew our world apart, then left me to clean it up all by myself. I don't understand selfish. I don't want to ever understand selfish. Selfish is the dirtiest word I know.

My heart hurts for you. Your H should have definitely discussed whatever you wanted to discuss. I am astonished at his selfishness and obstinacy. That he is willing to throw away 34 years of marriage for refusing to communicate about an affair that has been over for years is simply mind-boggling.

If he was not willing to provide you what you need, then why in the world would he have continued to participate in counseling? During my H's A, it felt like the kids and I were living in his world...never again!!

I hope that with some time for reflection your H will understand how selfish he is being and reconsider his stance. Has he ever read "Not Just Friends"?

Stick to your guns, you deserve more than he is giving.

Wow. I'm impressed. That's some serious courage. Good for you for loving and respecting yourself. You deserve better and being alone is infinitely better than stuffing, denying and pretzeling for the rest of your life. And if he's not able to deal with it now, how can you ever have any assurances it won't happen again? Why give him one moment more of your precious time?

I think this goes to one of the reasons why R is so hard. The ws often doesn't do what's necessary to help the bs heal, they rugsweep. And the bs must carry that pain for so much longer than the ws even understands or wants to understand.

I'm sorry but I think he's aware his ultimatum is unreasonable. He's being a coward. I would see an attorney whether it might be advantageous for you to file first. If not, then I would ignore his ultimatum, and make him to the heavy lifting of executing on his ultimatum. You talk about the affair whenever and however you want. You express yourself whenever and however you want. If he doesn't like it then he needs to move on.

My ex also told me that he would consent to MC as long as we did not talk about any perceived shortcomings of his. We could talk about me & my failings, but he as a subject was off the table.

Yeah, that was yet another portent of doom for our marriage.

Nature Girl, you were married to my husband's clone! We haven't been to joint counseling for 2 years because he "didn't want to get beat up on" anymore. Poor guy.

Oh my gosh, should I laugh or cry? Because one of my ex's favorite pity-party phrases was that I was emotionally beating him up! Oh, I'm so sorry you pathetic douchebag, did me telling you that I don't like it when you scream in my face hurt your itty-bitty feelings?

The WS who are mean and angry to us during their A's are arses, douchebags...
I gave my WH a coffee cup, a beautiful one made of copper for his birthday..
Soon after his birthday, the first chance he got when he was angry and frustrated with me, he hummed that coffee cup against a concrete sidewalk..
We were camping with kids(boy scouts)at the time..I was hurt that he destroyed this handsome cup that I took the trouble to choose, buy and present to him as a gift..
I was horribly mortified that other families/kids probably overheard our fight...When I think back in retrospect, I suspect that my WH was already in an A at the time..

My WH was in a fog that was 100 feet deep with 0 visibility..The fight was a stupid one, but he wanted to exert his control over me....He didn't want me to have a basic cell phone for emergencies.By that time the basic cellphones/ pay as you go plans were within my/our reach to afford....This was years before smart phones and competitive plans became commonplace...

But I insisted...I called him out on this topic telling him that he was being unreasonable, that I worked and made my own money anyway..I angrily told him that I will do as I please on this issue with or without his blessing..

I am not sure a WS cares about our concerns in regards to safety, kids or anything else while they are in an A or after they are discovered...

If your WH was remorseful, he wouldn't be trying to control you with anger or threats of walking away if you aren't doing as he wishes..

[This message edited by doggiediva at 9:26 AM, July 13th (Sunday)]

So he's willing to walk away from the M instead of talk about his A? Wow. There's a lot more to this and enough
Of a reason for you to keep walking to divorce court.