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Sunrising posted 7/12/2014 17:43 PM

Hi all
Newly registered but been here for a while. Such a great site
A quick background
DDay April 2010
WS was into prostitutes and had been for a couple of years before I found out.
He left me and 3 kids 2010 and returned home in 2011 to R.

I'm trying to to keep this short but it may go on, I want to be clear, so I can get feedback.

It has had it's ups and downs as all R's do, he has done some of what I needed to feel safe and at times it seemed that he was on the way to sorting himself and us out and did some good stuff, but not everything. He knows and admits this. He has been sporadic and dipped in and out of working on himself during this time too, which, has kept me feeling guarded and unable to be (as an example) as affectionate as I'd like to be, nor as vulnerable although I have been vulnerable, and initiated sex during this R only to be knocked back the majority of the time, and there have been incidents that have cropped up with lack of boundaries with his male friends, and just generally not being considerate nor supportive of my feelings or the kids, or pregnancy issues so to me some the same mindsets and templates that are the dodgy ones are still there which, to me are biggies and not good overall. We had our 4th child in 2012, and I'm just days away from delivering number 5, whilst having been looking after our other 4, one of whom is in a wheelchair cos of a recent accident.

Recently after a serious accident involving one of our children in which they were in hospital for 3 weeks I confronted WS as I "knew" something was going on....He admitted to breaking the porn boundary we had set up so he was out straight away b/c of that, as that was the consequence. I feel that he set this up and used the boundary against me to exit as he was not coping well with the added stress of looking after 3 kids and working etc etc, he said he was going to tell me when I came put of the hospital with son, so to me it would have amounted to the same outcome...That's all he has admitted to (porn)

He's been out now for nearly a month and is living "on his own" nearby. Claiming there's no one else, no porn, no women, no dating sites etc etc blah blah. I have seen very little remorse, and he is very self absorbed, self pity, making the accident and the fallout all bout him, he has guilt around it because of where he was standing at the time it happened, and I'm seeing him become more and more angry with me and is rewriting our R and relationship, negatively. He's spoken about getting a flat, has moved his playstation and a few of his things out, being awkward regarding seeing the kids and saying inappropriate things to them, and just generally behaving like a child. There are times he owns what he did, and times he justifies and minimises, times he tells me he has no reason to lie to me and his boundaries are in place, he lives me etc etc.

He recently cut me off financially by telling me he had a meeting with acct and they decided on zeroing my hours and wages to nothing in the business, so I could then have to go and claim benefits which I did not want, in his reasoning it was because I would get more money. I think it was his way of disguising him backing out even more. He has since given me some and "promised" he will continue but who knows. He thn backtracked and said it was up for discussion, but due to his (I feel) quite aggressive, unessisary and unilateral decision I separated the finances anyway. He now blames me for being on a lower income because he would have discussed it, but seemingly failing to realise his original delivery of "telling" me what had been decided and the message that sent to me. Perhaps he was trying to punish me for sticking to the boundary, trying to make me worried? Control?

We had a mediation meeting with some people the other day, his agenda was wanting to know by the end of the evening where my head was at regarding things and him
Were we staying together or not
And what is going to be the outcome of this.
His agenda was not discussed as one of the people decided to go with my agenda of the kids which took all of the time.

I feel he was wanting ME to make a decision so as he can look less like the bad guy if I pulled the trigger, and if I'd have said I want to continue I'm guessing he'd say things like "I don't know of I can" also he is a great procrastinator (with the exemption of porn and other women it seems) and I'm not comfortable with his twisting of things to get me to make the desison. He did not say what he wants, nor offered up suggestions of how to repair cos he wants to stay reconciling, he was just looking for answers from me. He did say that he knew he hadn't done everything I needed to feel safe/to R properly and "didn't know of he could" to which I'm thinking horseshit. To me It's him choosing not to and just being all passive and "I can't" crap, and just behaving in a shrugging shoulders "dunno" kind of fashion.

So after chatting to a good friend of mine of many years about this and me wanting to keep the ball firmly in WS court, so he can't weasel out or shift onto me we/I've come up with this to say to him what do you all think?

That I'm giving HIM a choice here - what do you want WS?
Family or no family. Take your time to decide, but give it some good thought (a week) and let me know your decision after then, and then we will discuss how things move forward from YOUR DESISION, YOUR CHOICE. To remind him of family, that it's not always exciting like OW but life is not always exciting, ...also mention things like has he REALLY thought about at some point down the road another man being a male influence, raising and being a role model to his children?, in 7 years he will be 50, has he thought that far ahead in his musings of rewriting me, feeling sorry for himself and wallowing in the last month? I know some of these WS want us to decide to end it, or set up scenarios so that they can say to others "well I tried but BS ended it" so they look less like the bad guy, and so they can live with themselves better. I'm not going to help him assuge his guilt, nor allow him to pass it off on to me. I know they can and will lie to others anyway, but I want it to be that he knows and I know that it was HiM that pulled the trigger if that's what he chooses.

TBH I think he's gonna bail, his actions have shown me that that looks like what he wants to do, and he has not been here for almost a month.... his words say mixed things like "I might get a flat" "I don't want to be away from my family" but actions are what I'm looking at. He's being very passive and has an "it's all out of my control" attitude, which to me is his way of taking the path of least resistance. The cowards way out. I also feel that he still believes because he knows that in my heart I'd like an intact family, to R, that he can piss about and be like this and he still thinks I'll always take him back at some point, because I've been the constant and known for him these last 15 years, he knows I've always loved him and he thinks I'll always be there.

However, I've been very patient, supportive, tolerant, grace, understanding, giving the gift of R etc etc and my actions have shown I'm committed, forgiving, for every single damn day of the last 3 years R'ing, and if he can't see that now then I doubt he ever will. I feel like he just has to keep pushing the line pushing and pushing till I reach my breaking point.

I will not tolerate this.

I know he has abandonment issues, fear of intimacy, expressing feelings and being vulnerable and seems to push me away. He has said "I just keep hurting you all and I feel I need to push you away so I don't hurt you anymore" to me the simple solution would just be to stop bloody doing things to hurt us then (me and the kids) Me offering the gift of R 3yeras ago is the bloody antithesis of abandonment if you ask me, and also shows that I was willing to give him the chance to be the best him he could be, that I still believed in him and was giving him the opportunity to be that. I feel that he just can't see what the positive things I've actioned actually are if he still has these issues, and that because of his low self worth, guilt, shame etc etc is consciously or unconsciously sabotaging the best things (me and the kids) that he will ever have in his life. He will throw us away again.

I'm pretty much ready for him to call it a day, in some ways he has already by breaking boundaries knowing the consequence and I will live with that desision if that's what happens, as sad and as unessesary and a waste it all is if he chooses that. It's him that's thrown it away again, not me. There is a point though that he's been given enough chances and slack and opportunitys over these last 3 years they are not limitless and unending. I know I can't control him, nor his actions.

Part of me wonders that I'm being too hard, given the stress we as a family were under...and that I do understand and can sympathise that when on a stressful sitch people can return to bad coping patterns....on the other hand when life throws curveballs like with sons accident, it's about stepping up, not choosing the one destructive choice out of 99 other healthy choices when the shit hits the fan. This was also a. Boundary. Being we have almost 5 kids, chances are there will be other things that crop up that cause a lot of stress, what will the next thing be "sorry sunrising, I fell into a prostitiute cos I felt lonely and unloved whilst you were in the hospital" let it go aye?..

Hope to hear from you with some angles and stuff
Thank you for reading this

[This message edited by Sunrising at 5:48 PM, July 12th (Saturday)]

Broken1Again posted 7/12/2014 21:05 PM

Part of me wonders that I'm being too hard, given the stress we as a family were under...and that I do understand and can sympathise that when on a stressful sitch people can return to bad coping patterns....on the other hand when life throws curveballs like with sons accident, it's about stepping up, not choosing the one destructive choice out of 99 other healthy choices when the shit hits the fan. This was also a. Boundary. Being we have almost 5 kids, chances are there will be other things that crop up that cause a lot of stress, what will the next thing be "sorry sunrising, I fell into a prostitiute cos I felt lonely and unloved whilst you were in the hospital" let it go aye?..

Given what you've said here, it seems that you know what YOU should do. Don't let him make the decision. Why? Because he could decide he wants this to work and moves back in and a year from now something stressful happens and you're right back where you started from.

What do YOU want? I know you want this to work, and I know you want him to be the man you want him to be, but is that even possible? Sure...I guess it is, but is it really going to happen? He bailed, life got hard and he bailed. Why didn't you bail? You are asking if you think you're being too hard on him and maybe you should be more understanding...but why do you need to be understanding? Why didn't you bail? Aren't you going through the same stuff he is?? You didn't bail because you are responsible, you are faithful, you are loyal, you are committed. Is he any of those things? And if not, why do you want to go back with him?

Don't let this be his decision. Let it be yours. "Fine WS, I want this to work...IC/MC complete transparency, Post nuptial agreement etc..etc..". Then you will see if he is really loyal, faithful, responsible and committed. You will have your answer if he agrees to all of that. Anything less is just same old same old...

wonderful81 posted 7/12/2014 21:53 PM

Im pretty new here as well and I'm sorry, I have no advice for you, but your situation is quite similar to mine.
A seemingly unremorseful WH in both word and action, who pushes blame onto me, and wants to play the feel sorry for me card. From D-day until now I've felt as you - he can make the move. I've already stated I wasn't really interested in divorce and left the ball in his court. I believe he wants to come out looking like the good guy in this, waiting for me to end it, and to me that's BS.
So, I completely understand where you are coming from. I really wish I could offer advice or thoughts but all I can say is stay strong and keep your eyes open to who he really is.

sodamnlost posted 7/13/2014 05:45 AM

Has he been evaluated for SA?

(((((Hugs)))))) it's so hard when we try and they can't match even yet alone go above us. BTDT. The time will come when you say ENOUGH and demand respect. Easier said than done, I know.

Sunrising posted 7/13/2014 17:39 PM

Thanks for the replies


I've read and re read your post many times. You have helped me realise that I also need understanding at this time, of which I seem to have not had much at all from his end over all of this. Perhaps I'm too understanding for my own good of other peoples shit. You're right, anything less is just the same old same old, TBH, he's been saying lots of stuff like "I don't think I can", "I can't" " I just want to stop hurting you all but it's like I just do it unintentionally" "I don think I can be the man you need and the father the kids need" crap so me thinks that it's just his way of backing out, like some demon is controlling his mind and he can't help it. Currently he is not saying anything like or better still actioning anything to remedy nor show me he is serious about sorting him or us, he is aware actions need to happen and a lot of work, I just think for him he wants to throw it all away in a self destructive sabotage kind of way, very self absorbed really and to me, is not thinking AT ALL about the damage he has and is still currently causing the kids.

I know Were better off without him if that's what he chooses and it's ultimately his loss if he really can't see, Or appreciate the gift he was given 3 years ago to R and have his family again. So thank you for your very thoughtful reply.

Thank you
My eyes are open, and what I'm currently seeing ain't looking too promising, but I must believe what I'm seeing, just very hard when I've tried soooo bloody hard to keep the family intact and work through this shit.

Thank you too.x no he has not been properly evaluated for SA, it was something I pointed out to him that I'd like to see him look into and we would work though together, he did a test online years ago at the begginging of R, he did flag up as a contender but did nothing about. He recently in the last few weeks said he thinks he is a SA/SLA and made an enquiry into joining a local group, but he has not attended afaik, and has since said he don't believe he is one after all. His original pattern was very much SA/SLA, and the porn thing doesn't help at all, I feel overall that he just doesn't want to deal with it as it's too painful for him to go there and it conflicts too much with the image he wants to portray to the outside world. IMHO

We tried talking today but it is for me very hard, he goes in circles, doesn't answer direct questions, skirts around things, says a lot of idk's self pity stuff and then denying that he's wallowing in self pity, says he's on top of stuff then says he's just existing, feels flat, emotionless, just working, isn't with anyone else, nor shagging, nor porn, not interested in anything, just doesn't care anymore, is navel gazing in between playing his playstation, seeing his mates and feeling totally numb and like a paycheck. Wants the family but couldn't answer me when I asked "what does that look like for you" so very wierd and confusing. I asked him to be honest (I know I know) and just say what's going on for him, but again he skirted around waffling like some politician.....

Thanks for listening everyone.

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