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Newest Member: Giupeppe (46032)

User Topic: Non D-Day Turning Points?
mhca
♂ 41920
Member # 41920
Default  Posted: 12:05 AM, July 13th (Sunday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

What kind of big moments stick out for you all -- besides D-Days of course -- in terms of the direction of the M? For me, all the big events have been negative, but maybe you all have some positive ones too?

The biggest one for me (besides D-Days) was after most of the truth had come out and I was trying to process it and make sense of what had happened to us.

At this point my WW told me she'd rather end our M than reveal the name of her GF who told her about how to use Ashley Madison to find APs. I felt all the remaining love I had for her drain out of my body. Even though she later told me the name it still stands out as something the cut me off at the knees when I could barely stand up in the first place.

A close second, and one that ultimately is probably more important, is when she objected to my ideas for reconciliation because I wanted her to examine and share "attitudes and beliefs that led to the A." She said there weren't any. Not exactly a way to build my confidence when I'm an emotional wreck.

Honorable mention: when she proposed that maybe we should have an open marriage (this was during false R).


Me: BH 47 STBXWW 47 (Lklb5)
M 19 years, DS 15, DS 11
DD#1: 12/24/2013
TT/Broke NC/False R
DD#2: 4/15/2014
TT 4/23, 4/24, 5/31, 7/19
Divorcing

Sample recovery plan, feedback welcome: http://www.survivinginfidelity.com/forums.asp?tid=539961


Posts: 902 | Registered: Jan 2014 | From: California
saturnpatrick
♂ 35989
Member # 35989
Default  Posted: 12:27 AM, July 13th (Sunday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

After I discovered some flirty texts but before I really thought there was something going on, we had scheduled a date night together. It had my hopes up because I kind of believed OM was no threat, that she was just kind of teasing him.

She canceled it so she could go hang out with OM and his family.

When I heard the message she left me, I absolutely could.not.think. I have never been that way before or since. I kind of thought people made that sort of thing up until it happened to me. I absolutely could not think. I just sat in my living room and kept thinking "no. no. no."

This feeling was the worst feeling in my life and I hope to never feel that way again.

I think that was the day I signed up for SI. Can't be sure.

ETA:
Went back and checked the calendar. I remember this was on a Wednesday. I signed up for SI three days later.

[This message edited by saturnpatrick at 12:29 AM, July 13th (Sunday)]


BH
I typo therefore I edit.

Posts: 198 | Registered: Jun 2012
mike7
♂ 38603
Member # 38603
Default  Posted: 12:29 AM, July 13th (Sunday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

At this point my WW told me she'd rather end our M than reveal the name of her GF who told her about how to use Ashley Madison to find APs.

i agree this is horrible.

has her tune changed? does she realize how horrible this is?

if not, have you filed for Divorce?

from my experience, when you let your WW know that you can barely stand the sight of her, the tables turn.


BH 53
WW 52
Two kids 21, 18

DDay 1/15/2013


Posts: 570 | Registered: Mar 2013
mhca
♂ 41920
Member # 41920
Default  Posted: 12:35 AM, July 13th (Sunday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

mike7: i agree this is horrible...has her tune changed? does she realize how horrible this is?
if not, have you filed for Divorce?

Haven't filed yet. Her tune hasn't changed all that much. AFAIK I have more or less the full truth, but no way to know for sure. She knows I want a complete narrative of the story. I think she senses that I'm starting to check out. She is responding as a good wife and mother but not someone who fully recognizes the damage that's been done or as someone willing fully invest in fixing it.

I guess over the last few days I've lost both my sense of urgency and willingness to do much work on this. I'm too tired I guess and it hasn't accomplished much.

[This message edited by mhca at 12:41 AM, July 13th (Sunday)]


Me: BH 47 STBXWW 47 (Lklb5)
M 19 years, DS 15, DS 11
DD#1: 12/24/2013
TT/Broke NC/False R
DD#2: 4/15/2014
TT 4/23, 4/24, 5/31, 7/19
Divorcing

Sample recovery plan, feedback welcome: http://www.survivinginfidelity.com/forums.asp?tid=539961


Posts: 902 | Registered: Jan 2014 | From: California
norabird
♀ 42092
Member # 42092
Default  Posted: 12:52 AM, July 13th (Sunday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I think it's great that you are losing your energy to work on this, in all honesty. Work on YOU. the onus to do the work is fully on her. You can't drag someone into R, and trying only wastes your precious energy. You are the one who deserves your attention and care right now. The M is going to sink or swim based on her own decisions, not based on anything you can impact. And getting distance by stopping striving toward the outcome of R will free you to see things as they are.


Sit. Feast on your life.

Posts: 4235 | Registered: Jan 2014 | From: NYC
mhca
♂ 41920
Member # 41920
Default  Posted: 1:00 AM, July 13th (Sunday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

saturnpatrick: This feeling was the worst feeling in my life and I hope to never feel that way again.

Amazing how bad it is, isn't it? By far the worst. I've had kidney stones. I've had severe depressive episodes that have lasted months. Nothing comes close.

norabird: I think it's great that you are losing your energy to work on this, in all honesty.

I do too, it's almost a blessing. WW is with one of our DSs and I have the other, for the past 3 days, though we'll be back together tomorrow. One thing I've learned from this is that WW herself is a pretty big trigger. It's relaxing being away from her.

[This message edited by mhca at 1:38 AM, July 13th (Sunday)]


Me: BH 47 STBXWW 47 (Lklb5)
M 19 years, DS 15, DS 11
DD#1: 12/24/2013
TT/Broke NC/False R
DD#2: 4/15/2014
TT 4/23, 4/24, 5/31, 7/19
Divorcing

Sample recovery plan, feedback welcome: http://www.survivinginfidelity.com/forums.asp?tid=539961


Posts: 902 | Registered: Jan 2014 | From: California
tfkeel
♂ 19517
Member # 19517
Default  Posted: 2:20 AM, July 13th (Sunday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Amazing how bad it is, isn't it? By far the worst.

Yep. Nothing else in life has hurt like DD. Nothing else in life kept me debilitated for weeks like DD.

But the "turning point" was not a "DD". Actually, she just bitched about my last night's sexual performance. This was really not extraordinary, but....

Something inside me "snapped" - and in what seemed like a millisecond, I lost everything. All desire to R, all desire to have sex, all desire to share any of my life with her at all.


Posts: 677 | Registered: May 2008 | From: Pennsylvania
mhca
♂ 41920
Member # 41920
Default  Posted: 2:29 AM, July 13th (Sunday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

tfkeel: Something inside me "snapped" - and in what seemed like a millisecond, I lost everything.

I totally get that. I always seem to picture how I would behave if I was wayward and had acted on the marriage with such reckless indifference and selfishness. My radar would be on alert all the time to make sure my BS had TLC and as much emotional support and honesty as she wanted.

When they make mistakes like it just makes it so obvious how little they care deep down. And then the BS's love gets switched off instantly. It's a weird feeling.


Me: BH 47 STBXWW 47 (Lklb5)
M 19 years, DS 15, DS 11
DD#1: 12/24/2013
TT/Broke NC/False R
DD#2: 4/15/2014
TT 4/23, 4/24, 5/31, 7/19
Divorcing

Sample recovery plan, feedback welcome: http://www.survivinginfidelity.com/forums.asp?tid=539961


Posts: 902 | Registered: Jan 2014 | From: California
Ostrich80
34827
Member # 34827
Default  Posted: 2:53 AM, July 13th (Sunday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I had 2 DD's and was still hanging on. The thing that finally opened my eyes was my teen DD had a cancer scare. I was beside myself with fear. WS was scared as,well but did nothing to comfort me. The morning of her biopsy as,we were waiting for the surgeon to come out and talk to us, I ran to the cafeteria to get coffee. While I was gone, that dirty dog talked to ow on his cell. I don't know about how other ppl handle things but let me tell you, I was on my knees begging God to spare her life, making promises to be the best person I could. Then we have WS, calling his skank that he was cheating with..omg how do you do that during such a scary time. It showed me that:
1. He was calling her for comfort instead of his child's mother
2. During this agonizing time of waiting to hear if our DD could be really sick, his mind was on ow.
That was the day I knew he was a stranger to me. It opened my eyes more than either DD


BS..me
WS..him
Been with him over half my life
4kid
DD1 10-01-09 DD2 02-12-12 discovered it never ended
OW..nothing special. Just your average skank
Status..#$%@????

Posts: 5276 | Registered: Feb 2012 | From: midwest
crisp
♂ 34236
Member # 34236
Default  Posted: 7:35 AM, July 13th (Sunday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Such enlightenment. Keep them coming. The introspection is so healthy. I especially like MHCA sharing about how he would act if he was the wayward. Holding others up to a modicum of standards is a very good thing to help keep poison away from you.


Endeavor to persevere. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=csEzTwKemwY

Posts: 468 | Registered: Dec 2011 | From: NE US
tremble
♀ 43170
Member # 43170
Default  Posted: 8:52 AM, July 13th (Sunday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

A post DD turning point for me was when I realized how much time and energy he was devoting to her and maintaining that relationship. It was probably 8 weeks after DD and I was talking to a friend who knows OW. This friend is aware of the A because OW called her crying about it when he ended the affair. I asked my friend if OW had been to my house when I was at work. She said "NO,she didn't want to go over there". Now up to this point WBF had said she never came over but I had the impression it was because he never invited her. He does that. Half truths. Minimizing. But then it just hit me. All those times I begged him to come to bed with me but he wanted to stay up late to "watch a movie". He would sleep late on my days off to the point that we didn't really have much time to do anything together, but on the days I worked he was up early. So he would have more time to spend with her. All the times he would be next to me and texting. Told me it was one of his male friends. All that time and energy that should have gone to me spent on her. I disconnected quite a bit when that realization hit me. I'll never buy into compartmentalization again.


You can't stop the waves, but you can learn to surf. Joseph Campbell

Posts: 78 | Registered: Apr 2014 | From: United States
Badhurt
♂ 41947
Member # 41947
Default  Posted: 10:28 AM, July 13th (Sunday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

There is no doubt she is going to do it again and by using too tired of it you are setting yourself up for more heartache. It is clear with your wife's refusal and determination to protect her Ashley Madison mentor where her priorities. From your posts I believe she is doing the minimum necessary to keep you around and that you sense that and are on edge whenever she is around. You are not regaining trust with good reason.

If you slack off now and pretend everything is fine , she will take advantage of you again. I told you before , she has had great success getting laid online and the more practice you get, and she had plenty, the better you get at it . She will be more careful next time. There is nothing here to suggest there will not be a next time. And she will probably get more coaching from her buddy who prepped her in the first place that she valuedore than yiu


Posts: 1097 | Registered: Jan 2014 | From: Eastern USA
Badhurt
♂ 41947
Member # 41947
Default  Posted: 10:29 AM, July 13th (Sunday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

There is no doubt she is going to do it again and by using too tired of it you are setting yourself up for more heartache. It is clear with your wife's refusal and determination to protect her Ashley Madison mentor where her priorities. From your posts I believe she is doing the minimum necessary to keep you around and that you sense that and are on edge whenever she is around. You are not regaining trust with good reason.

If you slack off now and pretend everything is fine , she will take advantage of you again. I told you before , she has had great success getting laid online and the more practice you get, and she had plenty, the better you get at it . She will be more careful next time. There is nothing here to suggest there will not be a next time. And she will probably get more coaching from her buddy who prepped her in the first place that she valuedore than you.

My advice is be tired of it and back off at your own risk


Posts: 1097 | Registered: Jan 2014 | From: Eastern USA
sisoon
♂ 31240
Member # 31240
Default  Posted: 11:10 AM, July 13th (Sunday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

John Gottman says his research shows that the memories a couple keep at the top of their minds says a lot about the likelihood of D - heavy preponderance of bad memories means high likelihood of D. Heavy preponderance of good memories means high probability of staying together.

Our memories are mainly positive. I hated the fact that, when I felt the worst, good memories from decades ago would pop into my mind. The damned memories were 45 years old, long, long before my W cheated but they damped down my anger and/or picked me up when I was sad. I chose R.

I wonder if the memories predicted how others handled the infidelity they have to deal with.


fBH (me) - 70 (22 in my head), fWW (plainsong) - 65+, Married 45+, together since 1965
DDay - 12/22/2010
Recover'd and R'ed
I share my own experience because it's the only experience I know, not because I'm a good model.

Posts: 10758 | Registered: Feb 2011 | From: Chicago area
AFrayedKnot
♂ 36622
Member # 36622
Default  Posted: 11:54 AM, July 13th (Sunday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

The biggest turning point was finding SI. I started stalking Bigger's posts. Not necessarily specific suggestions but the feel and the strategy of them.
R became a war. My fWW either had to join my team or she was the enemy, cut and dry.

I felt empowered. I realized i had nothing left to lose. I showed her where the door was and let her know that she could use it anytime. If she stayed it was completely on my terms.


BS 40
fWS 37 (SurprisinglyOkay)
DD DS
A whole bunch of shit that got a lot worse before it got better.
"Knowing is half the battle"

Posts: 2692 | Registered: Aug 2012
kernel
♀ 27035
Member # 27035
Default  Posted: 12:22 PM, July 13th (Sunday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

My turning point, when I finally KNEW that D was the only choice I had, came about in a conversation with X. In my situation, he had already abandoned me, our marriage, our home, everything. I was still busy trying to "win" him back. Anywho, he was at the house picking up more of his crap and he asked how I was doing. I responded with a statement about how my friends were supporting me and how that was helping me cope. He got the ugliest look on his face and snarled "that must be nice, having someone support you. You never did that for me." I have no idea what else he said after that, I was so stunned. I just sat there thinking to myself, that's it, I'm done. I can't deal with this crazy shit any longer. His statement was so far from the truth that it jolted me right out of limbo. In that moment I realized I couldn't fight crazy nor was I willing to spend one more minute on trying to R. Not that I ever had a real chance. I don't think I will ever forget that moment.

[This message edited by kernel at 12:23 PM, July 13th (Sunday)]


"On particularly rough days when I'm sure I can't possibly endure, I like to remind myself that my track record for getting through bad days so far is 100% and that's pretty good."

Posts: 5337 | Registered: Jan 2010 | From: Midwest
Lklb5
♀ 43936
Member # 43936
Default  Posted: 11:36 PM, July 13th (Sunday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Note: from WW of mcha

I've been reading your posts, and I know we need to talk. I had thought we both felt a bit more connected after our trip. Last week, but I guess I was wrong.

My tune has changed. I do believe I recognize a great amount of the damage that has been done, but I am sure I have more progress to make. I am and have been invested in fixing it. I own it. It was my bad choices, and I am working on fixing myself, too. I love you and want to try to make things better.

I have been trying to follow the reconciliation plan we both had input into, even though we are not in R. I did not object to your ideas on R, just the wording on one item and wanted to add more broader ideas into it. I realize I have some big areas for personal growth and I am trying to address them.

I have been reading books, web sites, SI, following your posts, going to MC and IC, looking up info on other therapists and therapy styles as you have voiced displeasure with our MC and my IC, reading with you, answering any questions you have, and talking honestly with you about our issues. I have been wiling to tell you everything and have tried to check in with you while gone this week.

I have been electronically and financially transparent. I have tried to be there for you for your healing and hope I have been. I understand that I was not last Tuesday day or night with my aunt's death. I am trying to be empathetic and authentic. I believe we have been more active sexually with sexually, although it is harder for me when we start from an upset or sad place. I have been making efforts to know you, really know you, and to create a safe place for you.

I am only responding on SI tonight as I have been following your recent posts and want you to know that I do care and am listening. While the is the first time I am posting, I have been learning.


Posts: 6 | Registered: Jun 2014
mhca
♂ 41920
Member # 41920
Default  Posted: 3:11 AM, July 14th (Monday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Well, here we are together at the hotel. Lklb5 and I had a pretty tense conversation tonight (after her post above). Lots of different points, the common theme is that we're both hurting a lot right now and there are a lot of grievances that our former conflict-avoidant selves left buried.

One of the topics we talked about was transparency about the A. I have dates and names and milestone type information, but very little feel for the relationship she had with the main OM. Specifics of conversations, for example. She said "wouldn't it be a trigger for you if I went into that detail?" My head exploded a bit because, while that might be true, I feel like I've said over and over again I need more understanding of what the relationship was really about. And that trumps triggers. Reminded me of Joseph's Letter:

http://www.survivinginfidelity.com/healing_library/confrontation/joseph.asp

I feel like Joseph, being asked to acknowledge her assurances but still feeling in the dark in so much.

We're both upset, separate beds. But the hotel is nice.

In keeping with the theme of this thread, I'll mention that her posting here could be looked at as a turning point, and a positive one IMHO.

She said that this would probably be the only time she posts. That she doesn't get much out of interacting on forums like this. I hope not. I think it would help. But we'll see.

[This message edited by mhca at 3:25 AM, July 14th (Monday)]


Me: BH 47 STBXWW 47 (Lklb5)
M 19 years, DS 15, DS 11
DD#1: 12/24/2013
TT/Broke NC/False R
DD#2: 4/15/2014
TT 4/23, 4/24, 5/31, 7/19
Divorcing

Sample recovery plan, feedback welcome: http://www.survivinginfidelity.com/forums.asp?tid=539961


Posts: 902 | Registered: Jan 2014 | From: California
notperfect5
♂ 43330
Member # 43330
Default  Posted: 3:49 AM, July 14th (Monday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I just got back from a vacation with my WW. It was a 12 day trip to the Badlands of South Dakota, Yellowstone, Grand Teton, and a plane ride back (a first for my 3-1/2 son, 6 year old daughter, and 9 year old daughter. Nothing like it! My WW said, "Thank you, thank you!" Hopefully this is the turning point where we start to get better. I know it is going to be a long road. But it is worth fighting for and working on.

For me it was a trip at high altitude full of sleep deprivation. But, when I did sleep, it was sound because she was there with me, 100% with no cell phone access. THAT was a comfort!

I so wish my wife could come here to see SI, but she is not ready yet. Perhaps over time she can appreciate it. MC has helped a lot.

Please hang in there!! You guys can do it!


Me: 45 BH
Her: 42 WW
DDay 8/13 EA, TT went underground
Broke NC and turned PA on 8/4/14
Limping, bleeding into R
Married 23 years
5 Children 15 to 3-1/2

Posts: 220 | Registered: May 2014
mhca
♂ 41920
Member # 41920
Default  Posted: 11:42 AM, July 14th (Monday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

notperfect5: I so wish my wife could come here to see SI, but she is not ready yet. Perhaps over time she can appreciate it. MC has helped a lot.

What do you think makes a WS "ready" for SI? I'm not sure the effect it's having on my WW. I think since she doesn't have close relationships with other FWWs it could be useful for her, but it seems to upset her too - especially the stuff I write.

For us I don't think MC has helped much but we're looking for another one.


Me: BH 47 STBXWW 47 (Lklb5)
M 19 years, DS 15, DS 11
DD#1: 12/24/2013
TT/Broke NC/False R
DD#2: 4/15/2014
TT 4/23, 4/24, 5/31, 7/19
Divorcing

Sample recovery plan, feedback welcome: http://www.survivinginfidelity.com/forums.asp?tid=539961


Posts: 902 | Registered: Jan 2014 | From: California
Topic Posts: 21
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