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Newest Member: SadDadOf3 (46038)

User Topic: What if the marriage really was shitty?
JustForgave
♀ 36038
Member # 36038
Default  Posted: 8:35 PM, July 13th (Sunday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I've been wondering about this for awhile.

There are a lot of folks here on SI who had a decent marriage, who thought they were happy, but who had a SO that had an affair. I look at those people, and I think how even MORE difficult it must be for them than for me.

Because our marriage was crap. I can honestly say that I was not a good wife. Oh, I cooked dinner and kept stuff going around the house and with our daughter, but I was emotionally absent, and uninterested in physical intimacy. WH, when talking about the A, says that he really, truly thought that our marriage was completely over, and that there was no way to save it.

We had gone to counseling, read books, all kinds of stuff to make it better, but it hadn't worked. He admitted that it was basically an exit A, said he wanted to make sure he had something in place relationship-wise before he left me.

What I'm asking is this: doesn't my being a crappy wife put some of the onus on me as far as the A goes? I mean, seriously, if I'd been as utterly miserable as he says he was, and the opportunity had presented itself, maybe I would have done the same thing. I don't know.

I guess I'm trying to figure out what he's thinking now, over a year from our final dday. I've reached a point where my anger is overshadowing everything else, and I feel myself shutting down, much in the way I did before the A. I'm tired of waiting for some show of emotion from him, I think. Some real words of sorrow or shame or disgust.

But really, do I deserve them? I'm confused.


Me: 47
FWH: 40 (SI username: Bumbling)
DD: 11

DDay #1: June 9, 2012
Dday #2 (TT): November 29, 2012
DDay #3 (The BIG one, ALL the TT): March 30, 2013
False R: June 12, 2012 - March 21, 2013
REAL R: March 21, 2013 - present


Posts: 299 | Registered: Jul 2012 | From: Texas
simplydevastated
♀ 25001
Member # 25001
Default  Posted: 8:47 PM, July 13th (Sunday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Nope. Not at all. It was his choice to have an affair instead of saying "we tried, it's not working, I'm leaving." That's the right thing to do.


Me - BS, 39 (I'm not old...I'm vintage)
Two Wonderful children - DS10, DD7
Married, for now... (4+ D-Day - listed in profile.)

Posts: 5854 | Registered: Jul 2009 | From: In the darkest depths of hell!
AML04
♀ 39682
Member # 39682
Default  Posted: 8:52 PM, July 13th (Sunday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Nope. Not at all. It was his choice to have an affair instead of saying "we tried, it's not working, I'm leaving." That's the right thing to do.

This!! If he couldn't take it any more, he should've left. Did he say why he didn't other than not wanting to be alone?


Me-BS Him-WH DS 5/12
Met 2000, Married 2004
DDay 5/26/13, TT through 8/13
2.5 yr EA w/co-worker, PA 12/12 to 4/13
Hopeful for R

Posts: 875 | Registered: Jun 2013 | From: MA
Imissmyhusb
♀ 42734
Member # 42734
Default  Posted: 8:52 PM, July 13th (Sunday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

My WH feels the same. I still feel I deserve an apology bcuz he didn't have to stay and add more misery to the marriage. If he felt he had done all he could and there was no savg it then D. If he's stayg in it unhappy, there has to b somethg in it for him, some benefit.
That's where some of my anger comes from. That I feel used bcuz he doesn't love me the way a man shld love his wife but yet he stayed and got everything I was investg


Married '03 - multiple ddays and TT
3 kids
me - sahm since '07, him - idk him any more
~~~~~~~~~
I dont know why I stay. Need to figure it out

Posts: 294 | Registered: Mar 2014
SadInNC
♀ 42170
Member # 42170
Default  Posted: 8:58 PM, July 13th (Sunday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Hi. You've raised a really good question. When my husband had his A, I was also emotioanlly and physically ablsent from our marriage. More so physicislly, he was the one who left emotionally. But whatever. I know what you are saying and it is a valid point. My marriage was crap also at the time of WH A. I still don't think it excuses for the A though. They should have been men enough to either leave us, or tell us that if things don't change, they need to get laid. Period. We could have dealt with it then. We could have shared what we needed as well, from them. The entire thing was a lack of communication.

I'm just curious. Why are you still with him? Do you have high hopes for R? Good luck with whatever you decide.


BS/Me WH/Him

"Your value doesn't decrease based on someone's inability to see your worth." -Unknown Wise Person


Posts: 345 | Registered: Jan 2014 | From: North Carolina, United States
dameia
♀ 36072
Member # 36072
Default  Posted: 9:01 PM, July 13th (Sunday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

You own 50% of the problems in the M before the A. He owns 100% of the A. Yes the M might have been shitty, but an A isn't going to fix that.

How is your M now? Are you two committed to R or are you still in limbo?


Me: BS
D-Day: 7/7/12

Trust is like paper. Once it's crumpled it can never be perfect again.


Posts: 1209 | Registered: Jul 2012
JustForgave
♀ 36038
Member # 36038
Default  Posted: 9:53 PM, July 13th (Sunday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Hmm. I'd say we're in R, but the way I feel right now, it's more like limbo. I know I WANT it to work out, but it feels like my own feelings right now are getting in the way of that.

He really does do a lot of things right. It just seems like the ONE thing that's painfully difficult for him is the ONE thing I really feel I need.

AML04--he did say that it was because he didn't want to be alone. Not entirely, of course. He turned to her because she gave him all the adulation and affirmation and ego kibbles that I wasn't giving him. Really, I was giving him nothing.

I do know I'm responsible for my half of the marriage, and I've told him that the A is 100% him, which he agrees with.

I guess I'm thinking that if I can just assume some of the blame myself, then I won't be so mad at HIM...


Me: 47
FWH: 40 (SI username: Bumbling)
DD: 11

DDay #1: June 9, 2012
Dday #2 (TT): November 29, 2012
DDay #3 (The BIG one, ALL the TT): March 30, 2013
False R: June 12, 2012 - March 21, 2013
REAL R: March 21, 2013 - present


Posts: 299 | Registered: Jul 2012 | From: Texas
Zayda1
♀ 35387
Member # 35387
Default  Posted: 10:29 PM, July 13th (Sunday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

My marriage wasn't perfect either. I wasn't a good wife, but....he wasn't a good husband either. We were both in the same marriage. He cheated, I didn't. He owns his cheating. I own my actions within my marriage, he is responsible for his actions withing our marriage. What he did outside of the marriage is all on him. I didn't make him cheat just like I didn't make him stop at the gas station and eat a candy bar. He is not a child. Grown-ups take responsibility for their own actions.


Married 9 years, together for 11 years
2 children (7 years & 4 years)
Discovery of PA 04/15/12 (It only lasted a "couple of weeks" but it still shattered my world.)

Posts: 469 | Registered: Apr 2012
StillGoing
♂ 28571
Member # 28571
Default  Posted: 11:01 PM, July 13th (Sunday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Because our marriage was crap. I can honestly say that I was not a good wife. Oh, I cooked dinner and kept stuff going around the house and with our daughter, but I was emotionally absent, and uninterested in physical intimacy. WH, when talking about the A, says that he really, truly thought that our marriage was completely over, and that there was no way to save it.

We had gone to counseling, read books, all kinds of stuff to make it better, but it hadn't worked. He admitted that it was basically an exit A, said he wanted to make sure he had something in place relationship-wise before he left me.

What I'm asking is this: doesn't my being a crappy wife put some of the onus on me as far as the A goes? I mean, seriously, if I'd been as utterly miserable as he says he was, and the opportunity had presented itself, maybe I would have done the same thing. I don't know.

Or he could have not been a selfish asshole, not used you as a maid and instead chosen to have been an actual man and divorced you before finding some cooter therapy for his poor, sad cock.

I'm sure divorce is difficult. That doesn't make being a complete fucking asshole suddenly somehow acceptable. Math is hard, too. NASA doesn't just say fuck it, crack a 40 and shoot rockets in the air in random directions hoping they land some dude on a cool rock.

eta:

You own 50% of the problems in the M before the A.

if A in this case meant "Abuse" in the traditional sense, would that statement still make any sense at all?

I have always felt it is a totally unnecessary qualification. People who behave like assholes own 100% of their asshole behavior. Maybe the environment sucks, but even if Mommy is drinking because Daddy is working too much, that doesn't mean Daddy is at fault for spending 12 hours in the coal mine, any more than Mommy is at fault for not having his beer cold and ready when he gets home to sock her in the eye.

People are responsible for the shit they do.

[This message edited by StillGoing at 11:05 PM, July 13th (Sunday)]


"You have insulted my footwear."

Posts: 7635 | Registered: May 2010 | From: USA
SBB
♀ 35229
Member # 35229
Default  Posted: 11:35 PM, July 13th (Sunday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I was supremely miserable in my M. He was shit husband. My needs were as small as possible and he didn't meet a single one. Didn't even bother to try. I was probably a shit wife too but I had no chance of rectifying that with him balls deep in any number of whores rather than talking to me about it.

I didn't cheat. Not because I loved him or because he was such a good husband (he wasn't) but because how the fuck would that fix my problem? That would create a million other problems. It did not even cross my mind.

I tried to talk to him - I cried, I begged, I pleaded. For almost 5 years. I did everything he said would make him happy.

On NYE 2 months before DD I had started accepting that I would need to divorce him. This wasn't working. This was a shitty M. We were both miserable and our kids were suffering for it.

He told me he wasn't unhappy and we could work through it. This was normal. I told him it was not. He begged, pleaded, told me not to do this to our little girls - the works.

A part of that work included a week-long professional development course in London which would help fix the complete lack of work-life balance that was impacting our M - he was spending a further week in his London office. During Skype sessions while he was over there he told me everything he had learned that would help our M. I was ecstatic!! Finally some hope!! I can't tell you how thrilled I was. I cried happy tears. I knew we were going to make it after all.

Coincidentally this course is also where his affair with DDOW happened. She is the first I knew about but she wasn't the first OW - not by a long shot.

I couldn't believe it. WHY didn't he just divorce me like I had suggested several times when he wouldn't agree to MC or addressing our M issues? Why did he suck me back in just to rip my guys out like this? Because he wanted to have his cake and eat it too.

I'll never understand it. The cowardice is as astonishing as the cruelty.

Where your thinking is faulty is that you believe the cheating has anything to do with us, our M or the AP. It does not. Sure there are environments where a cheater finds it easier to give themselves permission to cheat but there is no environment that makes a non-cheater a a cheater.

Even if you were the perfect wife he would have found fault to justify his cheating. Just like a crack addict tells themselves one more hit even though they know the devastation it causes.

The biggest lies are the ones we tell ourselves.

Far better wives/husbands than me have still been cheated on. Far worse have not. The essential component in cheating is a cheater.

Thinking there is something you did/didn't do to make them cheat is the same magical thinking that makes us think there is anything we can do or not do to NOT make them cheat. There isn't. Cheaters are cheaters. If they want to change they have to face themselves and do the digging and work to figure out and fix WTF-ever is wrong with them.

And I agree with SG - I don't know that I even accept 50% of our M issues because I believe they were 100% caused by his issue of ICan'tKeepItInMyPants-itis aka because he was a cheater doing what cheaters do - cheating.

[This message edited by SBB at 11:39 PM, July 13th (Sunday)]


I may have reached a point where I'd piss on him if he was on fire.... eventually!!

Posts: 5735 | Registered: Apr 2012 | From: Australia
Ostrich80
34827
Member # 34827
Default  Posted: 1:32 AM, July 14th (Monday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

My M was pretty shaky due to some non marriage issues.. Instead of going at the problems together, we handled them separately and totally different ways. I had a lot of guilt because I was checked out. I hid things from him because I didn't want to hear him explode. Financially we were sinking fast and a ds spiraling into drug addiction. I felt he abandoned me when I needed him and he felt I was not paying attention to him, which I wasn't. I have to remember that I was also in the shitty marriage and I didn't cheat so...We were both stuck, unhappy and too broke and emotionally drained to split up.
So he doesn't get a free pass and I'm trying to let go of the guilt. I have responsibility for my part but shouldn't hsve the guilt.


BS..me
WS..him
Been with him over half my life
4kid
DD1 10-01-09 DD2 02-12-12 discovered it never ended
OW..nothing special. Just your average skank
Status..#$%@????

Posts: 5277 | Registered: Feb 2012 | From: midwest
Bluebird26
♀ 36445
Member # 36445
Default  Posted: 2:14 AM, July 14th (Monday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Shitty marriage or not, does not make it ok to cheat.

I wanted out of my marriage about 6 years before I had confirmation of his first affair. He wasn't meeting any of my needs, he wasn't present in our marriage or as a father. But he promised to change, and of course that didn't last long. I tried to raise issues but he of course blamed me for his shortcomings or inability to do what I needed him to do, he also became emotionally abusive.

Grown ups take responsibility for their actions, grown ups make decisions together and grown ups talk about their problems and try and fix them.

If they can't be fix the problems in the marriage or relationship, they divorce. They don't have affairs first or set up a new life first. So instead of speaking up they hurt you in some of the worst ways possible. He's a selfish coward.


"Loving someone should not mean losing you. Love empowers you. It shouldn't erase you. - Thelma Davis.

Posts: 1409 | Registered: Aug 2012 | From: Australia
jb3199
♂ 27673
Member # 27673
Default  Posted: 5:27 AM, July 14th (Monday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I guess I'm thinking that if I can just assume some of the blame myself, then I won't be so mad at HIM...

It is OK to accept blame for your state of the marriage. Hell---it is APPROPRIATE to do so...if you know that you were a contributing factor to a poor marriage. That way, you can work on your faults, so you can be a better partner in this relationship, or any future one.

Just don't contribute it to his cheating. Cheating is a personal choice---he didn't consult you before he started cheating, did he?

If you allow this sort of blameshifting, then any poor behavior is fair game. Nothing would be off limits. You can only imagine how far down this reasoning can spiral.


BH-47
WW-44
2 boys-17 & 20(special needs)
Married 22yrs.(together 27yrs.)

All work and no play has just cost me my wife--Gary Puckett
D-Day: 9/18/09 D-Day#2: 2/19/10 The Marriage Killer: 6/6/11
Heading for D


Posts: 2147 | Registered: Feb 2010 | From: northeast
LostSamurai
♂ 41347
Member # 41347
Default  Posted: 7:55 AM, July 14th (Monday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I am probably the guilty party to having a poor marriage. I didn't help out as much, didn't pay attention to her needs, and was absorbed in porn. I was the worst husband and father anyone could have had, so that's what happen. Also I was easily angry. I am by far the non-idea husband.

[This message edited by LostSamurai at 7:56 AM, July 14th (Monday)]


I am now nothing by a mere Ronin.

Posts: 1041 | Registered: Nov 2013 | From: Maryland
Areukiddingme
♀ 41950
Member # 41950
Default  Posted: 8:35 AM, July 14th (Monday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I can soooo relate to this. Our marriage had been in trouble for a long time. We are excellent hoovers though, and kept everything nice on the surface. That worked for about 18 years. Try not to be too hard on yourself. All you can do is work to be a better person and be honest about your feelings.

Posts: 53 | Registered: Jan 2014 | From: Southeast
DixieD
♀ 33457
Member # 33457
Default  Posted: 8:53 AM, July 14th (Monday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

So basically he was a coward. Not emotionally mature enough to be self-sufficient or independent. What gives you the idea that someone like that would be capable of being a fully contributing partner and therefore you were the overwhelming problem in the relationship?

IMO, anyone who has an affair, demonstrates they weren't emotionally mature enough to hold up their side of the bargain. That's a given. And they still aren't if they don't work on themselves after the fact.

If you could see that maybe you could have made the same choice, that it was a reasonable option, then you have your own stuff to work on. That still has nothing to do with his choice.

I guess I'm thinking that if I can just assume some of the blame myself, then I won't be so mad at HIM...

Plus it means you could fix it. Fix the problem. Fix the relationship. Control the situation. Which you can't. You have no control over what someone else chooses to do. Your husband did this all on his own, regardless of how shitty or how wonderful the marriage was. And he's chosen to not dive in and work on himself and fully support you and your needs for R. Maybe you should be getting mad at HIM.

A year out, I'd want to see some signs sorrow, shame and disgust. He should be disgusted with himself. But he won't be as long as he's tying his actions to what he thought the marriage was and using that as an excuse. If he's still got that in his head, he's not dug very far into why HE chose to have an affair.

It just seems like the ONE thing that's painfully difficult for him is the ONE thing I really feel I need.

Because it's remorse and it's needed for R. The most important factor as a matter of fact, and he's not got it.
Your own feelings are not keeping you in limbo, his are. You are just willing to shoulder the blame now in hopes that it helps move the process forward because he's not doing it. Don't do that.

((((JustForgave))))

[This message edited by DixieD at 9:07 AM, July 14th (Monday)]


Growing forward

Posts: 1767 | Registered: Sep 2011
7yrsflushed
♂ 32258
Member # 32258
Default  Posted: 9:08 AM, July 14th (Monday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

The thing about "thinking" your M was shitty is you are never really sure if your WS was actually 100% "in" on the marriage anyway. In fact you know they weren't because of the A. I also thought my M was below average. My XWW had me thinking it was. When I got some perspective and really starting looking at things I realized that my M was below average because she had CHECKED OUT a long time ago. It's kind of hard to have a great M when only 1 of you is pulling in that direction. The WS that is having an A goes through a bunch of pre-A rewriting and rationalizing how shitty their M is to them in order to justify the A in their head.

Your M may have in fact been shitty but your WH had a responsiblity to work just as hard if not harder to try to make things better. Instead of doing that he chose to have an A. As a BS it's hard to focus on making the M great when you dont't know about the other person that's in it. Even if your WH was trying to tell you things were wrogn he should have TRIED harder instead of cheating. It's hard to work on it when your WS is gaslighting you or being an ass just to justify their own behavior. I think if you detach and truly look back at your M, you may find some things you could have worked on but I bet your WS wasn't doing very much if anything to make things right. Unremoresful WS's will let you, the BS, think you messed things up to avoid taking responsibility for their actions.

If the M was that fucked up your WS ALWAYS had options. They could have asked for counseling, asked you to go to church, talked to you until they were blue in the face then talk some more, seek out help, read some books, hell even divorce you if it was that bad but they didn't do any of that. They took the cowards way out with the A. Don't fall for the bullshit. Any issues your WS had with you in the M should have been addressed with you and if that didnt' work then address again and again and again or file for D. Bringing a 3rd party into the marriage definitely isn't going to fix anything.

Your M may have had issues but they weren't the reason for the A. That is 100% on your WS and his shitty boundaries and coping skills.

[This message edited by 7yrsflushed at 9:10 AM, July 14th (Monday)]


D-day 5/24/11
BH = Me
2 children
The first true sense of calm I felt in YEARS was when I filed for D...
Divorced 9/2/14 and loving life!

Posts: 1943 | Registered: May 2011 | From: VA
Summerluv123
♀ 43876
Member # 43876
Default  Posted: 9:33 AM, July 14th (Monday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

There are so many aspects that play into a bad M just as there are with an A. One thing I keep seeing people here say is that grown ups need to act as such and talk about problems before an A or D happens. That's just it!!

My IC has told me several times that I have never evolved into an adult in my M or in other parts of my life. Intimacy is nil and I have no clue how to start it or keep it going. We married as teenagers. Some people never do mature and keep playing their childish games until they destroy everyone they love. I truly want to have a mature grown up M and an intimate relationship with my WH or whomever I am with. WH is also in IC and says he wants the same.

You know we don't get relationship lessons as kids and I know it would have benefited us. We both have to own our mistakes and empathize with the other's feelings to get our relationship on track. It will be a long road, but to get to a place where I am comfortable sharing myself with someone else is kind of exciting.


BW - 46 (me)
WH - 47
M - 29 yrs
Together - 30 yrs
2 kids - over 18
3 A's - 2000, 2012 and 6/14
In R (lots of therapy!!)

Posts: 94 | Registered: Jun 2014 | From: Southern US
seethelight
♀ 43513
Member # 43513
Default  Posted: 9:38 AM, July 14th (Monday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I've reached a point where my anger is overshadowing everything else, and I feel myself shutting down, much in the way I did before the A. I'm tired of waiting for some show of emotion from him, I think. Some real words of sorrow or shame or disgust.

Perhaps this is why your marriage was not good. YOUR HUSBAND was the one who was emotionally absent and oblivious to marital problems, and as a result YOU SHUT DOWN.

That makes it all too easy for him to blame you for the marital problems, instead of facing himself.

My husband tried the same Bull hockey, but even the marriage counselors we saw said it was quite obvious that I was the one more invested in the marriage from the getgo.

I checked out emotionally after my dad died, but he had been living like a single guy for years.

Even during the years I took care of his sick dad he was going out with friends and men's only vacations and leaving me home alone to take care of the kids, the pets and HIS DAD.

On dday he tried to blame the emotional disconnect on me.

I wasn't buying it. I, too, shut down because basically I was being emotionally abandoned, used and abused by him for years.

It was obvious to everyone but him, that he was the one who had difficult coping with a real world marriage.


ďIf two people truly have feelings for one another then they donít have an affair. They get a divorce and they sort out their feelings. You are accountable for the people you hold hostage in a marriage when your mind and heart refuse to fully commit

Posts: 1516 | Registered: May 2014
gonnabe2016
♀ 34823
Member # 34823
Default  Posted: 9:50 AM, July 14th (Monday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I hate that *50% of the marriage issues* crap -- for the reasons laid out by '7flushed'. My stbx had immature, messed-up expectations and perceptions -- so how does that suddenly mean that *I* own anything?

His crazy-thinking made him believe things about me that were flat-out untrue and not based on ANY type of reality. And of the few things that I *may* have been able to agree with -- when I back-tracked (using the *why* exercise), the root cause was often embedded in my behavior being a 'reaction' to HIS dysfunction, kwim?


Math is hard, too. NASA doesn't just say fuck it, crack a 40 and shoot rockets in the air in random directions hoping they land some dude on a cool rock.


"Oh, what a tangled web we weave when first we practice to deceive." - Sir Walter Scott

In my effort to be *concise*, I often come off as blunt and harsh. Sorry, don't mean to be offensive.


Posts: 8252 | Registered: Feb 2012 | From: Midwest
Topic Posts: 38
Pages: 1 · 2

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