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WH not showing remorse or understanding

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gottabeabiggirl posted 7/15/2014 13:15 PM

I dont even know how to start... I will try to keep it short as possible.

I am 25f, my WH 35. Together 7.5 years, got married last October. I have been recovering from a torn rotator cuff from volunteer work since April 2013, had surgery a month after our wedding November 2013. This required a lot of care from my WH for the first month. I couldn't drive, pull up my own pants well, do household chores, etc... Sex was limited to 1-2 a week and was much more of a hassle.

After the first month things got better and I started to slowly improve. I hurt my right shoulder which is my dominant arm. Well in March my left started hurting a bit, according to doctors it was impingement and over compensation. They wanted x-rays done to verify no large bone spurs or anything.

One my way to get x-rays in April 2014 my car was hit by a semi. We later found out it torn a ligament in my left shoulder and redamaged my right rotator cuff. I am looking at about a year or two of recovery and several more surgeries and we are involved in a lawsuit now.

We had planned to start trying for children in June of this year but had to push that back due to the wreck.

2 days after the car wreck we went to visit my friend (it was already paid for trip), a friend I knew he had a crush one but I trusted him. I am still bruised and swollen from the wreck. He develops strong feelings, thinks he is in love with her, during the few days we are there. Tells her this every time I walk away to go the bathroom or somewhere else.

She calls me, tells me everything, explains they had been talking and he had been being inappropriate with her for years, during our entire engagement. She was a bridesmaid for petes sake. Almost all their communication was over facebook and his online accounts.

He admits to it all when confronted, tells me initially I am too broken from my injuries and unfit to be a mother (damaged shoulders mean hard time holding a baby) and he might want to divorce, would have had my friend been interested in him. He wants to move to her city. My injuries made me an unfun person to be around and he can't handle me anymore needing help, its ruining his life and making him depressed.

I tell him fine I will go and make plans to do so. He freaks out retracts everything about wanting a divorce, begs and cries and asks for a chance to fix this, promises he is in love with me and wants to be married. I decide to stay and try because we just got married and I love him dearly.

We get counseling, he goes into individual counseling as do I. He constantly tells me how hard this is making his life, how he is tired of me being upset and wants me to start getting better by now (less than 3 months out from this). He doesnt want to go to our counseling anymore together because he gets nothing from it and it messes up his work day, just too big an inconvenience for him. We have our last session with this therapist today and then I start trying to find one that isnt just passive and tells him its fine to not share and lets him sit there like a big jerk.

I had to write down what I needed from him, including his passwords and whatnot. He has to stop treating me like the bad guy and realize this isnt just hard for him and my efforts arent to punish or make his life bad but to heal and move forward. He has to accept I see it as cheating on me. He can't blame my injuries on his deciding to cheat, which emotionally started before they even occurred.

To him these things I have asked are unnecessary and insulting and he has treated me very poorly since this conversation which was 2 days ago. I tried for months to avoid invading his privacy but I cant sleep or eat due to the anxiety. He used to sit in bed after Id fall asleep and correspond with her. I cant sleep because of this, I had to eventually cave and ask him for his passwords. I promised I wouldnt look without telling him and would never go back further than this April, just have to know he isnt doing it anymore.

He came home last night after spending all day being mad at me for asking this of him because he was so insulted.

I broke. He either pulls his head out his ass and realizes this is not about him and how he feels. This is about his injured wife who he emotionally cheated on for years with one of my best friends and then tried to make it more in person while I wasnt around and how to heal the broken trust.

I have not cut off sex at all, it is still very frequent, I have no kicked him out, I have not stopped cooking and cleaning, I have done nothing but try and be compassionate of his feelings. What woke me up yesterday finally was realizing I cried and felt horrible for asking him to share his private online life with me because I knew it upset him. I spent hours agonizing over that. But why? He didnt care when I was hurt and laying in our hotel from the wreck while he tried to confess his love to my best friend. He didnt care he married me while carrying on an emotional affair with one of my bridesmaids. He didnt care if I had to go through all my recovery and surgeries alone because it was just too hard for him to help me out.

I told him this is his one last chance to change his perspective on it, even tried to brainstorm ways with him for how he could do this. Told him he gets ONE MORE CHANCE to makes amends and to show me he gives a shit.

I set a date of August 2nd. If he has not stopped treating me poorly and telling me I am overreacting and that I need to start having better days. I am sending in our divorce papers and kicking him out.

I dont know how I will go through my surgeries but I know he isnt showing remorse and its killing me. He just doesnt care.

I dont know what to do. I am in pain so often from my injuries and so alone. I have never lived on my own, would have no idea how to set up my internet and other electronics. Not to mention I need basic help sometimes due to my shoulders.

I am just so alone and dont know if its possible he will change or what to do anymore.

steppingup posted 7/15/2014 13:35 PM

This is just my thinking here big girl, but I loving husband would not only allow you into his internet accounts but everywhere else into his life, without any hesitation. That is when you know the relationship is healthy and productive.

You can have sex like hormone induced rabbits but that doesn't mean you don't have intimacy issues.

I think you still have intimacy issues. There is something broken in his emotional state, which draws him to women he cannot have, I think he is in love with the chase the fantasy of going after fishing, catch then release.

I bet if you leave, he will chase after you. Sorry, but that might be your reality. Sucks for everyone, even him.

Yes, get him in therapy and find out what trama he had as a boy, yes he is acting like a child.

gottabeabiggirl posted 7/15/2014 14:39 PM

He is in therapy. He had polio and went through 6 years of trauma as a kid, which is why he is so reactive to my injuries and needing physical therapy.

His parents were loving and have been married 39 years, he can't answer many quests about intimacy issues from childhood as he had a lot of love and affectionate parents.

Aside from ego boosting and being selfish I really don't understand.

Arnold01 posted 7/15/2014 14:58 PM

After reading your note and learning about your situation, I had to respond. Not because I have any great advice for you, but because I want to tell you how impressed I am by how you are handling an emotionally devastating situation.

You are early in your marriage, you're going through a ton of physical / medical stuff, and now you have your husband acting like a selfish, unremorseful idiot. When I discovered my husband's affair, my reaction was to be desperate and insecure and generally pathetic and do whatever it took to keep him. There was no way I was strong enough to do what you've done by making your needs clear, by outlining your expectations, and by giving him a clear choice - figure it out or you end the marriage. And heck - you're only 25 - I am practically old enough to be your mother and still didn't have half the wisdom or strength you've shown!

You know how awful things feel right now, and you probably also realize that whether he comes around or not, there are going to be pain and tears and hard work in your future. So on your down days, remind yourself of what a great job you are doing to take care of yourself. You seem to have an incredibly good handle on the situation as well as what you need to do about it to protect yourself, so even if you doubt your husband or feel yourself losing faith in him, don't doubt yourself. From what you've written, I think you are doing all the right things to take care of yourself and here on SI you'll find plenty more wisdom and great advice. I'm sure more will come along to respond to your note and in the meantime, hugs to you.

gottabeabiggirl posted 7/16/2014 11:57 AM

Thank you so much for the kind note. I am so very sorry you have had to go through this, I wouldnt wish this hell on anyone.

I am definitely not strong a great deal of the time but what my life has taught me with family traumas and deaths is that life must go on. I have an amazing career and refuse to let this ruin it, I have to keep it together for that and for my family.

They give me strength. My mom died a few years back and I have kid brothers. To me being a good role model and staying strong and having respect for myself is very important. In a way I am lucky to have such a challenging role to fill since my mothers death, it keeps me on track and I an so grateful for my siblings.

Thank you so much, last night was a very hard night, probably the hardest I have had and I kept thinking back to your note. It really made a difference in a time when I needed it.

FixYou71 posted 7/17/2014 01:30 AM

Oh hun, I am so sorry. You deserve so much better than this.
I see your dday is only 3 weeks ago and your registration in July. Have you done much reading in the Healing Library here? May I suggest that what you currently have is an unremorseful H and without true remorse and repentance there is no chance for R.
If you haven't, please read about the 180. Keep in mind it is a guide of sorts to help you detach from your WH and focus on your own mental and emotional health (physical too). While some say the 180 can have the added result of opening a WSs eyes to the seriousness of it all and what they would be losing that is not and should not be the motivator for implementing the 180.
Why do you need to detach? Because he is not safe for you. Allowing yourself to base day to day decisions on an unremorseful, selfish spouse will do nothing but bring you more pain and confusion. You need to separate yourself from him and be your own person, start working on you, healing you, so that, whatever the eventual outcome, you will be able to handle it. You will be o.k.
What you have experienced is an emotional trauma. What your husband engaged in was an emotion affair (E/A). You haven't said wether the affection was reciprocated by your 'friend' (in quotes because a true friend would not have tolerated the communications much less participated in any way and would have told you of his advances years ago).

What is generally suggested is similar to what you laid out to him. You need to give him your list of requirements. These are the things he MUST do or not do in order for YOU to offer HIM the GIFT of even considering to attempt to fix and rebuild your marriage. You gave him a few requirements but, IMO the list should be much more extensive.
An example list...
1. He must write a NC (no contact) email/text etc. to her stating that she is not to contact him again, that he chooses you and there will be no more relationship between them. There are no sweet goodbyes or I am sorry's. There are no closure conversations. It's over.
2. He must give up all passwords to all social media sites, email accounts, all electronic devices etc. And you have open access to them at any time you wish.
3. He is not to delete any pics, texts or messages. You have the right to download restoration software or use any means necessary to restore deleted communications in order for you to have the full picture to make decisions about your own life, decisions that were previously taken from you because of his lies and deceit. You also have the right to load keylogging software on his devices to track his behavior there.
4. He must block her from his social media accounts.
5. He must block her phone #.
6. He must agree to go to IC (individual counseling) to find out why he was capable of exploding a bomb on your marriage and how he will become safe from those same pitfalls in the future should you stay married. This will probably be much more difficult than it sounds and he may give shallow excuses.
7. He must attend MC with you to work through issues relating to the A.
8. He must not have any female friends on facebook or other social media or in real life that are not family. This is because he has clear boundary issues and cannot be trusted.
9. He must read 'Not Just Friends' and 'How to Help Your Spouse heal from an Affair'
10. He must talk with you about his A and answer any and all questions you have with 100% honesty. Even take a lie detector if you so choose.
11. He must be willing to console you, comfort you, hold you when you cry, discuss A issues anytime you need.
12. He must break away from any friends (even male friends) who are not 'friends of the marriage'. That means anyone who covered for him, knew he cheated and kept it secret, knew and supported him cheating etc.
13. He must not view porn, go to strip clubs etc. (This, like all requirements are obviously up to you and particularly how you view the use of porn and the like but many feel that any behavior that does not bring intimacy TO the marriage and looks to others for any type of sexual arousal or gratification is a deal breaker, particularly in light of infidelity and someone with poor boundaries.

This is a starting point. Some have their WS put GPS apps in their phone so their whereabouts can always be verified via an app the BS uses as trust is being built/earned. Many request pic messages or Skype messages to show they are where they say they are and with who they say they're with. You may have other reasonable additions. All of these are a result of the clear fact that he can not be trusted and has poor boundaries.
Now, a remorseful spouse who sees the weight of what he's done and the pain he's caused would be terrified of losing his wife. He would gratefully accept these requirements and any more you need to begin to feel safe and for him to start to earn back trust. I've seen it here firsthand. The remorseful waywards are completely understanding of why these guidelines need to be implemented. They do not feel defensive or angry. All they care about is helping their spouse, who's heart they have obliterated, and having a chance to stay in their marriage.

I don't think you need to wait until August. I think you need to lay it all out there and demand his decision. (In fact, if you demand texts/emails in advance it gives him the chance to delete more than he probably has) Your way or the highway. I think the August deadline was more for you because it's so scary thinking about him not choosing R, not fighting for you, not being remorseful.
Another poster mentioned his need for a chase. If that could be the case then it is even more important that there are strict requirements for R because he may feel the challenge, be sweet and act sad but it would only be temporary and not based on reality. You would find yourself right back here very soon with the same nasty attitude and the same justifications.
It is very important that if you lay down requirements that there are consequences for not meeting them.
The consequence would be that the gift you gave of allowing him to stay married to you and work hard on himself and the marriage would be retracted. That's it. All or nothing.

I know this is so overwhelming. I know that. Please think of yourself. No matter what happens, wether you separate or try to R, you need to know you can be ok. He must earn the gift of R and he is absolutely not doing that.
My last bit of advice is go see a lawyer. You don't have to file. Just meet with one. Find out your rights. Find out what you'd be dealing with. They will advise you on how to protect your property, money, split debt etc. It will give you a sense of empowerment too.

I am so sorry for what you're going through. .

Dare2Trust posted 7/17/2014 03:11 AM


I don't mean to sound harsh:
BUT - I do have a problem with you referring this OW (Other Woman) as your "best friend."

BEST FRIENDS don't engage in an Emotional Affair...or any type of inappropriate relationship with your boyfriend/fiancé/husband behind your back...for a period of YEARS!!!
This is totally unacceptable on HER PART, and on the part of your husband: EQUALLY

I can give this OW "credit" for disclosing this Emotional Affair to you...So you are aware of this inappropriate relationship between HER and your husband.

I'm sincerely sorry for the pain and turmoil you are going through -- and I wish you the very best with your physical recovery; and with the reconciliation of your marriage -- IF you make the decision to continue working towards reconciling your marriage.

Your husband has lots of work to do - as he works towards true remorse and helping you to heal both physically...and from the damage he's caused your marriage.
We're all here to support you!

bionicgal posted 7/17/2014 08:42 AM

I am with Fixyou. Your husband is in an emotional affair with your "friend," and it must be stopped immediately for this to get better. I am glad she told you before it went further, but if she is continuing contact, she is as guilty as him. I am so sorry. Unless he is flat out crazy, she has encouraged and supported his behavior by communicating with him, and is no real friend of yours.

So, keep reading here, and I'd suggest the book "Not just Friends" for both of you. He must go NC and get his head out of the fog. Sending good thoughts your way. . . .sorry you are here.

painfulpast posted 7/17/2014 10:50 AM

yes he is acting like a child.

I am 25f, my WH 35. Together 7.5 years,

This age thing stuck out at me. You have been with him since you were 17 or 18. He was 27 or 28. No offense, but in almost all cases, an 18 year old girl has NOTHING in common with a 28 year old man. By 28, I was a completely different person than I was at 18. The maturity level, what matters in life, etc. all change drastically. An 18 year old girl is just that. At 28, if he was that interested, to me, it says he has maturity issues. Sad thing is he was already 28. So now he's 35, still selfish, still a moron, still acting like an 18 year old. You, on the other hand, have grown. You've had real issues. You're maturing and thinking of the future. He's saying stupid things like you are fit for motherhood - because of shoulder issues? Really? Does he even know what makes a good mother? He's just thinking like a typical BOY - the mother of his kids needs to be perfect.

I think your H has some arrested development issues, and it's coming out now. Who tells someone, the second their wife leaves the room, that he's in love with his wife's friend?

Oh, and some friend!! Your WH was doing this before your wedding, and she didn't tell you??? She'd be gone from my life faster than I could count to 5. Don't you think this information would have been nice to know BEFORE you married this asshole?

You don't have children. Is this really the man you want to spend the rest of your life with? A man that insults you because you are having a hard time physically? That's really cruel, and unfair. How will he act if something very serious happens? What happens if you get breast cancer and need a breast removed? How would he behave then?

Give this real thought. You don't need to R with him. If you want to, and he's willing to work, then that's your choice, but I wouldn't give him another day. You said you made plans - I assume that means you have somewhere you could go? I'd go there. Tell him he knows where you are, and if he wants this to work, he'll work at it. If not, you'll send the papers in.

I'm so sorry - I know when you married you had your life planned. You didn't cause any of this. He doesn't deserve you, at all.

gottabeabiggirl posted 7/17/2014 12:50 PM

The list you typed out FixYou71 is very similar to what I gave to him, not exact but very close. I used It was several pages long with explanations. Had a page of what I will not tolerate, what I need from him, and then explaining how its all to heal, not the punish and every last bit is 100% non negotiable. He tells me he is either fully committed to fixing this and starts showing it with his attitude, gestures, actions, and words, not just his words or he is gone.

I feel stronger for it, though also such a deep sadness and realization of more than likely loneliness. The thought of being alone when sick and all the nights coming home to an empty house... crushing. But the mental torment I live in every day is so horrible maybe that stuff wont be as bad.

As for my Dare2Trust and bionicgal, my friend has removed herself from his life and did so before contacting me. Deleted her social networking profiles even. I am torn here because she came forward soon as it reached a point she thought was really bad. Why she never told me about the earlier messages I can never say, though she always did seem uncomfortable around him in hindsight. She has no interest in him whatsoever, thinks he one of the words biggest creeps. I do very much so wish she had told me before the wedding because I would never have married him.

The worst part about all of it is WHILE we were having discussions on rebuilding trust (I knew he had sent similar messages to other girls years earlier) and how it was a requirement he never ever do that again if I were to marry him, he was doing it at the same time we were having those conversations, promising me he would never do it again. How could he lie to my face all that time, telling me how insulting I was being for questioning his commitment to me. Sigh.

She is still my friend for now as I am deeply grateful for her coming to me and telling me when it crossed what her definition of a line was. But she doesnt live here, about a 2 day drive away, and I doubt we will ever be as close again.

Painfulpast, in hindsight I can't believe I fell for him as I did. He put me through the ringer as a young girl and always told me he knew better than me due to his experience and I somehow stayed, giving him chance after chance. I honestly am not sure if I can get over it, have made this clear to him as well. He has fully taken advantage of my and my age difference and now here I am 10 years younger and more of an adult than him.

My 21 year old sister just met a 30 year old man who wants to date her and I am desperately trying to steer her away, now that I can clearly see the kinds of issues someone like that has to have to date someone so much younger. She wont listen of course as I wouldnt have at the time.

I do not regret my time with him as he has taught me a lot and helped me through college and my mothers death but never again will I be so stupid. I just never knew how many problems he truly has.

The only reason I am still around is he wanted to go to individual counseling and has not missed a session. Weeks his therapist is out of town he gets very upset and is taking him personal therapy very seriously. He claims to want to fix whatever is the underlying issue for his behavior. His lack of remorse and my hurt may be too much to stay but he at least will be better off for himself and whoever he is with in the future either way.

gottabeabiggirl posted 7/17/2014 12:52 PM

Also thank you to everyone. I could not get through these last few days without you all. They have been such dark days, days I hope to never have to face again once this is all over. I am deeply sorry for everyone here going through this, it is truly hell.

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