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AP broke NC - again

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nightmarelife posted 7/17/2014 00:58 AM

I had an A with my BIL, BH's sister's husband. As some of you know we live in the same town and haven't gone completely NC with their family in regards to seeing each other occasionally at family events. But other than that we are NC as much as possible.

Well this week AP/BIL texted me. He seems to not be able to go more than 3 months without contacting me. The text message was pretty benign as it was only to wish me a happy birthday, but still, it was completely inappropriate. I told BH as soon as possible and finally blocked his cell number. Hopefully that won't pose a problem later as we still watch his and SIL's kids once a month but I'm tired of the broken NC. Question is, is it necessary to tell SIL/OBS? BH doesn't think so but I'm not so sure.

Me: WW (33)
Him: BH
1 DS, 1 DD, and 1 DD on the way
Married 13 years
Dday: 10/26/13

notsoOK posted 7/17/2014 01:25 AM

Yes absolutely tell her! Isolated incident one thing multiple times out of line. And your husband should put the fear of god into him.
He's going to keep "fishing" until you do. Good luck sorry it keeps happening.

Matilda23 posted 7/17/2014 01:50 AM

I think you should tell her. She deserves to know what her H did and she should be the one to decide if they stay together or not. By not telling SIL, you and BH are making the choice for her. You and BH are working out your A, she should be given the choice to decide to work it out or move on.

nightmarelife posted 7/17/2014 09:03 AM

@notsook, We told her about all the other contact if AP didn't tell her before we did, so it is sort of like an isolated incident. I still have a hard time understanding why BH doesn't think it's a big deal. He's due for a talk with her soon and may tell her then but he's in no rush. It's not even that he thinks it will hurt her. It's just the way his family is - they don't like to be tattle tales and sometimes withhold information they think is innocent.

@Matilda23 I completely agree but how do I explain this to BH in a way that he will understand? He ultimately has the final say in this.

[This message edited by nightmarelife at 9:05 AM, July 17th (Thursday)]

DrJekyll posted 7/17/2014 09:12 AM

I think a good position in this discussion with SIL might be. "How would you like this handled in the future?" Then the issue is in her hands, and you do not need to make the decision for her. And do not need to figure out what she might want. If you ask her directly, and get a direct answer. She may want to know all communication, any "inappropriate" (if this is the case have her define it) communication, or may not want to know anything. Put the ball in her court.

I think as a WS a lot of the time we have built a pattern of deciding things for other people i.e. how they will feel, how they will react, what they should know. And a pattern of not discussing what we are feeling/thinking and not communicating those thoughts. For so long we hide from communication to hide our secrets. So I think that this would be a great opportunity for you to not decide for her, but ask her. Get her opinion, listen to it, understand it, re-iterate it back to her to make sure that you are clear. Another step in the road. JMHO

nightmarelife posted 7/18/2014 10:59 AM

Thanks for your thoughtful advice DrJekyl. You sound like our therapist with your comments about being direct, communicating, and reiterating but that's a good thing.

My SIL isn't the most direct person but it sounds like she's been getting better at communication through her therapy in regards to the A and my H is the best chance we have for receiving honest answers from her.

If we can be sure she'll give a direct, clear answer of what she would like disclosed in the future BH agrees that that would be best.

I'll keep you posted.

[This message edited by nightmarelife at 11:01 AM, July 18th (Friday)]

badchoice posted 7/18/2014 12:09 PM

Why haven't you blocked him on your phone?

It seems like that would end the contact.

notsoOK posted 7/18/2014 12:56 PM

Why doesn't your husband have a chat with this guy?? He doesn't sound like he is ever going to stop. I think he actually still thinks there is a shot at starting up again. Someday down the road. He keeps breaking NC and there is never any consequences. Soon his twisted mind there is still a shot just keep on fishing till he gets a bite.( I meant in his mind not yours!)

rachelc posted 7/18/2014 13:18 PM

Why doesn't your husband have a chat with this guy

Seriously, has your husband put he fear of God in this guy? Could this "chat" include a baseball bat?

[This message edited by rachelc at 1:18 PM, July 18th (Friday)]

somethingremorse posted 7/18/2014 14:21 PM

This is tough. I think that your BH is trying to have a "normal" relationship with his sister and even his BIL. I can obviously see why confronting them after a pretty benign comment would not be high on his list.

I might be full of crap, but it seems that NC is both for our BS and for the WS, too. It's not so much that if your AP contacts you that you might stray again. It's that you need to move away from that time period. You need to live without looking over your shoulder, wondering it the AP's comment is innocent in your BH's eyes, or if it should be reported. In your (our) situation, we cannot constantly think about how the other M is working, whether this text was because they are breaking up.

In short, the AP is too much baggage for the WS to have around. Regardless of what BH wants, I kind of think you should tell SIL, just to take care of yourself.

I always try to picture myself in your shoes. I think I could tell my BW that I want to heal me, and I need to tell my BIL about contact. I think this would be hard. This week in IC we discussed that I am not hiding from hard conversations with BW, because I have already had the hardest one imaginable. So don't be afraid of upsetting your BH by bringing this up.

nightmarelife posted 7/19/2014 17:25 PM

@badchoice I've blocked his number now. Unfortunately since I will see him every month or so at another family event or holiday there's really no guarantee that it will end contact. Also, he's a tech/computer guy and could easily find ways of contacting me around the block I placed.

@notsook He's pretty arrogant and *thinks* he's skilled at reading people so I wouldn't be surprised if he still thinks he has a shot with me.

As for consequences there are some but only if his BW finds out (and even then they're probably not sever enough to deter him). My BH, as much as he's wanted to in the past, doesn't want to punish him now.

@rachelc They've had several chats since Dday, mostly over the phone and all pretty civil. BH is trying to move on and doesn't want to threaten him. I don't even know if it would change anything anyway. AP has always just done what he wanted, pre and post A. He self medicates and has this lack of empathy for people, almost like a narcissist or sociopath. We think he has issues but he's in denial and won't seek treatment.

floridaredman posted 7/19/2014 17:34 PM

I wouldn't be surprised if he still thinks he has a shot with me.

So he thinks he reads you as still wanting to be with him?

nightmarelife posted 7/19/2014 17:49 PM

I think that your BH is trying to have a "normal" relationship with his sister and even his BIL. I can obviously see why confronting them after a pretty benign comment would not be high on his list.

This is totally true. You know our goals WRT the family dynamic. He definitely wants to move on and progress to something more normal at this point. In the least we're looking at Thanksgiving and Christmas as occassions we'll for sure be all together again. There will probably be more than that. And SIL, though we don't talk except out of necessity or have any kind of relationship is allowing me to attend almost any family function I would like to. Neither of us want to mess anything up or revert back to having to avoid each other completely.

the AP is too much baggage for the WS to have around.

YES. I completely agree but didn't realize it would be such a big deal in reality. BH and I were able to discuss our feelings after learning of the contact and we agreed that this time it actually affected me more. I was having a great birthday, not thinking about the A or SIL or BIL at all and then his text came in and I was triggered badly with memories of the A and stricken with anxiety over having to disclose it to BH and SIL and how it may hurt them.

Anyway, I think I could explain that better re: reporting contact and WS's need to be open and honest and as far away as possible from wayward behavior. I think that totally makes sense. I don't want to do any little thing in the eyes of SIL as well that will make me look like I'm being deceptive.

[This message edited by nightmarelife at 4:54 PM, July 20th (Sunday)]

nightmarelife posted 7/19/2014 23:19 PM

@floridaredman, maybe. I think some of it is based on his instinctual over-confidence, what I said during the A and what he knows about my BH and our M. He's known my BH since he was 17. He assumes a lot about his character, how people can't really change and how unhappy I will always be in the M in his opinion.

I'm not proud to admit that the first two times he broke contact (at 2 months and 4 months past Dday) I engaged him. Even though my replies to his contact were benign and I immediately told my BH, it probably left me open as an option in his mind. The last two times he's contacted me I've ignored him completely. And we've always avoided each other like the plague when we're at the same family event.

[This message edited by nightmarelife at 11:20 PM, July 19th (Saturday)]

Brandon808 posted 7/20/2014 11:42 AM

There was another BH on SI who caught his WW in an A with a "friend". In fact both families, including their children, were friends. The BH tried to go back to normalcy. It didn't work. The EA restarted.

Your boundaries are clearly improving. Regardless I think your BH needs to find a way to accept that the new normal needs to be much more distance. It's not about punishing OM. It's about keeping this jerk out of your lives. The OM will escalate as long as their are no serious consequences. He's showing a pattern here and will try again.

I agree with you that you should tell SIL.

nightmarelife posted 7/20/2014 20:01 PM

@brandon808 We both know that we need to find a new normal but if he continues breaking contact it will probably involve more distance than we had anticipated. Thanks for your opinion.

nightmarelife posted 7/23/2014 00:47 AM


BH told SIL about the contact today. She told BH that her and AP/BIL's R is still not going well. It looks like the text message to me came out of a huge argument they had last week, so she just rolled her eyes. She said she appreciated BH telling her. She thinks it's best for everything to be out in the open so she wants us to continue telling her about any future contact. She knows I've blocked him on my phone though so hopefully we won't be in this situation again.

NoGoodUsername posted 7/23/2014 07:10 AM

That sounds like a very practical and reasonable plan. It also sounds like the BIL is not "owning his stuff" and is still in an active Wayward mindset.
Good luck and stay transparent.

somethingremorse posted 7/23/2014 09:29 AM

Glad that it worked out. You are building trust among three of you. Think about it -- your SIL should feel some comfort that you and your BH are doing what you can to keep her safe. That is going to help repair the relationship between your BH and his sister.

I know it is a drop in the bucket compared to the damage that was caused. But all we can do is live right from this day on.

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