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Is the fog over? Did she change? R?

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PRNDL posted 7/18/2014 10:40 AM

I think my now ex-wife, as of one month, is finally out of the fog and starting to do all the things that she should nave been doing in order to R after D-day a year and a half ago. Is the fog over? Is she really trying to do the right thing and restore her family? Or is she still wanting her cake and just going through the montions?

My story:
My wife of 7 years, together 14 years, had a one year long A. We have an 11 year old wonderful son. After D-day she wanted to R. She begged and pleaded. I took her back only to catch her again one month later. I stayed. I found out 6 months after that, that the A was still ongoing. They just hid it better. I was in limbo for 7 months trying to R again like an idiot. It was pure torture. We tried MC, and she just made a fool out of us. She told our MC how she had fun with the OM. I could not handle her horrible "push pull" treatment. She practically was dating him right in front of my face, so I moved out leaving her the beautiful house we built, furniture, and everything. I initiated the 180D. I'm an educated man with a great career who is now live in a small room at my mother's house. My tools and tinker project are in a storage unit. I recently found out she had a ONS with a 56 year old guy and a girl friend of hers (threesome) in Feb 2013. During the above, she never used protection and there is no telling what other high risk sex she has don. She was with the OM up until 4 months ago (so she says). Something I will never for get is when I begged her to stop seeing the OM and she said, "Crying like that is unattractive. If I were to break it off with him, he would not react like that." That sums up how she had no mercy for me.

Before the affair:
Before all this, my wife was my best friend. I was her oy sex partner. She was so sweet and kind. We came from nothing. We worrked crappy jobs so I could wrap up college and we could care for our newborn son. Once I graduated, she started college and I started my career. We bought our first house and litteraly worked non stop to put her through school. She graduated, started her career, and we built our second house new. Our son is a great kid and has never given us trouble. Two new cars, lots of vacation, no fighting, 12 years passed and everything went great.

She progressed through her carreer. Moving up and it became exponentially more stressful. She had an 8 month long nervous breakdown in 2011. She had to stop working, see IC, neurologists, and was put on meds. I would have to take her to the ER, sometimes 3 times a week due to panic and anxiety. They told her it was her job and once she quit all the symptoms went away, or did they? She found a better, calmer, higher paying career. Everything seemed great!!! Then the cheating started.

After all this:
For the past 4 months, after her break up with the OM, I could tell she was less foggy, but still in the fog. She would call me every night all night till 4 and 5 am begging me to come home. Crying and yelling. She would threaten to go back with the OM or screw other men if I did not come home. She would tell me how a "real man" would come home and fix his family. I felt that our relationship was the fuel to her cheating. Now that I was gone, she did not get that taboo cheating high. Having her cake and eating it. She still refuses to do anything the MC told her. Sever all contact with OM, write a no contact letter, and see a IC because she may have BPD due to her breakdown in 2011. I finally 180D her and started moving on.

Now, after the divorce:
The dat of the divorce court date, which was over a month ago, she sends the OM, cc to me, a text telling him how she loved me and how he was a complete mistake. She told him to never contact her again. She did a no contact just like the MC told her to do over a year ago. She told me she started IC, was put on meds, and things have been very very calm. We barly spoke this past month. We only text about our son.

She recently called me and calmly told me that she knew something went wrong with her in 2011. She is working on what that was with the IC. She is on meds and loves me very much. She said that even though we are now divorced, she will not be going out, seeing any one, or doing anything that would hurt me. She said she will get fixed and show me she can be a great wife. She said she needed to get fixes for her if i go back or not anyway. She understood if i moved on without her, but would be waiting if I wanted to come home.

My issue:
I love this woman. I miss her so much. I would love to have my family back. However, Im terrified of her hurting me. She went through the motions many times before for me to stay, only for to find out that she was still cheating. She had a long term A and a disgusting ONS with a man 26 years older than her and a woman. She showed me that she was capable of it.

My IC tell me I have serious trauma from what she did due to horrible nightmares and images that flash in my head that I still see of her screwing other men.

My plan is to stay in IC, keep my distance, rebuild my life, work on me and just watch her from far away.

If she stays with this IC. Determines the WHY, and initiates a treatment abd prevention plan, what should I do?

Should I try to slowly R? Starting as friends, dating, and so on?

Will this show her that she can cheat and cheat and ill just tolerate it? A door mat? So she can cheat again.

I have the option to start dating and find a woman who actually respects me. However, they can cheat too.

In closing:
I prefer to be with my son's mother. The person I have known half my life. Not a stranger. I want my family back, but I cant go through this pain again. I dont want to waste my time if she is broken. I could just move on with someone else who has boundaries, impulse control, and how will respect me, but I will be settling for the next best thing. Another woman with her own baggage and strange history and no garantee she wont cheat may not work either.

Any advice?? Opinions?? Case studies??

Sorry this was so long. This is tearing me apart.

[This message edited by PRNDL at 10:41 AM, July 18th (Friday)]

Schadenfreude posted 7/18/2014 10:59 AM

Ever watch Dirty Harry? You've got to ask yourself a question. Do you feel lucky? Well, do you, punk?

I'm not saying you are a, punk. But I think you are engaging in wishful thinking by mistaking what she now is saying with a genuine remorse. Is it possible that divorced,life isn't what she thought it would be?

Compare and contrast her just four months ago with her now. Exactly what happened, other than the D which drives home the point of separation to bring about this major reversal of professed attitude? What happens when you are back as Plan B and her support system?

You've been here long enough to recognize that healing takes years, not days or months.

I think you would be taking a big chance and a huge risk to have her back in your life right now..I see manipulation. She knew what to do a long time,ago,,but finally decided,to,do it.

Do you even know what happened between exWW and OM.?
The prognosis is even worse if he broke it off with her.

You cannot go through marital Hell again.

mike7 posted 7/18/2014 11:05 AM

i concur. stay detached. worry about yourself and your son. build a life. see what she does.

the things she did were so disrespectful. that can't be glossed over in even a couple of years.

I know that I can be a dick, but i would be tempted to bring up her escapades every time she suggests getting back together. See how she responds. point out how you weren't "very attractive" when you crying, and the OM was special. Just bring her to her fucking knees. see what she does.

then....if after a couple of years of you being divorced, if you want to see what she's like, then what the hell?

but i wouldn't do a damn thing for her before then. she is not a good person. treat her that way.

i wish you happiness.

tearingaway posted 7/18/2014 11:12 AM

You need to protect yourself and your son. That is your first priority. You may still love your xWW, but you would probably also admit that the love you have for her post-A is nothing like the love you had for her pre-A. After an A, everything changes.

You have your freedom from her with the D. Don't give that freedom up easily. If you want to stay in touch with her, okay, but to jump back into a relationship with her after all that has happened just feeds into her cake-eating.

It seems to me that she has a lot of work to do before she is worthy of your company again. That opinion is coming from a complete stranger, though, so it may not be good advice for your situation.

Past behavior is a significant indicator of future behavior. I would handle her like a venomous snake: handle with care, preferably at a distance, and keep safety mechanisms in place to protect yourself if you need to get closer.

Badhurt posted 7/18/2014 11:13 AM

I might as well make it " the three musketeers". She treated you like a piece of crap and you are putting yourself a great risk for another shit sandwich if you forget about recent history.

Read my profile. I did at after two years of her begging and pleading and repairing her relationship with the four beautiful daughters she gave me who refused to speak to her for a year.
She was not in fog , just hyper sexual all her life and always needing me attention which she has no trouble getting even now from men 20 years younger .

If you go back with her, she needs to tell you she will take unannounced lie detector anytime you request it. That's what I did.

I'd still wait to see what happens

solus sto posted 7/18/2014 11:15 AM

Your plan to watch from afar is a good one. Sit back. Observe, without engagement---over a long, long time.

Interact with her only as requires as relates to your son (and by this, I do NOT mean family activities; I mean coparenting).

Take it slow.

You're a month out of divorce from an emotionally unstable woman who did not show remorse when it mattered the most.

Now she's scared.

Are her actions indicative of a desire to do the hard work necessary to R? Is she even capable of that hard work? (I don't ask that unkindly; my stbx is, in fact, NOT emotionally able, and that knowledge has kept me moving in the right direction.)

Until you've spent a long, long time observing her actions--from a place of your own healing, it would be emotionally dangerous (not just to you, but to your son) to even contemplate building a new relationship with this woman.

To be with her, you will be required to build an entirely new relationship. A new one complicated by a painful history. She might look familiar, but your ex is a stranger---a stranger who's shown a willingness to harm you and your son. You say you don't want to be with a stranger--but you will be, no matter what.

She needs to demonstrate, over a protracted period, that she is working hard to become a healthy woman capable of navigating interpersonal relationships in ways that do not harm others. She needs to demonstrate the ability to own her past and to acquire and consistently apply a whole new skill set.

Time will tell whether your ex is looking to exploit your sad vulnerability to Hoover you back in, or is committed to sustained positive change, regardless of the outcome.

I would wager the former--but hope for the latter. (None of us likes to be right about the crappy stuff here. Truly--we want you to be happy. But that happiness? You're the one with ALL the power, there.)

[This message edited by solus sto at 11:19 AM, July 18th (Friday)]

HighlandPaddy posted 7/18/2014 11:16 AM

PRNDL-I've been convinced that my wife has Borderline Personality Disorder now for a few years, but I dont now how to get her into therapy...

WHat your wife did to you was horrendous!! I'm so sorry for you in having to deal with that. Truly disgusting stuff, and no one would blame you for not going back ever....but I also dont blame you for wanting that life back. But I think you know, it can never be as it was. Whats done is done. The questions is, can you live with it?

Others I'm sure others will disagree with me but I can tell by your tone how much you love this woman and your son of course. I do think family is worth fighting for, and worth the suffering.
Maybe she is reformed. Maybe consider taking baby steps. Have a cup of coffee. See what happens.

I hope that I'm not giving bad advice, but I also married my high school sweet heart. I started work when I was 18, and I worked my ass off to put her through college and law school.
ALot of history is built up there, and that is not an easy thing to walk away from.

Good luck brother. Be strong and keep you eyes wide open.

million tears posted 7/18/2014 11:20 AM

Could you be wanting your home, your lifestyle back instead of her? Be very careful. She may be saying what you want to hear but ask yourself what you REALLY want. I would not rust back into R.

PRNDL posted 7/18/2014 11:39 AM

Such GREAT advice and food for thought.

Yes, there is question why it ended with OM over a year after D-day. I feel like plan B.

Im seeing it from many different angles with your help. Please keep the help coming.

This is horrible! I wish she would have just left me! Then I could just move on.

seethelight posted 7/18/2014 11:45 AM


Well, the divorce is final.

Why not just date her for Awhile.

Make sure she splits the bill on your dates, too.

If she has really changed, she will accept this and will stay faithful to you while you two date.

[This message edited by seethelight at 11:46 AM, July 18th (Friday)]

OK now posted 7/18/2014 12:38 PM

I would be wary of dating her; you are far too emotionally fragile; she would come on to you like a ton of bricks and you would cave and end up just where she wants you.

She dispensed with the OM because she found intolerable faults she couldn't live with. Now its time for the fall back option.

The trust is gone; replace by a terrible traumatic fear that she will betray you again. Are you willing to take that risk? It may very well destroy you.

Badhurt posted 7/18/2014 12:47 PM

read this from OK Now

I would be wary of dating her; you are far too emotionally fragile; she would come on to you like a ton of bricks and you would cave and end up just where she wants you.

if you had the emotional capability, which you probably do not, then you could use her for sex like the OM did, and see where you are in 6 months or a year. But I do not think you would be able to hold your emotions back.

Remember how she mocked you when you were in tears.
Don't ever forget it. You probably do not need me to tell you that.

And with her mental state, be prepared that is you do reject her she goes back to the threatening you with promiscuous behavior.

Abbondad posted 7/18/2014 14:35 PM


Our experiences are sadly similar: the LTA, the flaunting it in our face, the nightmare of false R, the utter cruelty of mocking our clear and expressed suffering.

All I can say is that HUGE alarm bells are going off in me--for you. Please remember what she did--and that she had the capacity to do it.

Secrets Kept posted 7/18/2014 15:03 PM

My suggestion would be to at least date a few other women before wasting time re-dating your WW. They may have "baggage" as you say, but it is new baggage that didn't destroy & mock you. And there are TONS of good women out there whose baggage may only be that they too were betrayed & devastated.

At least then you would know that "new" relationship/dating feeling & it may make you realize that you don't want to go back to the old bs involved with your XWW anyway.

Another way to look at it is.......Your XWW would not be happy if you date other women so that would give her a taste of her own medicine.

Stay strong & let her begin the work while you get on with your life & just let her know you will sit back & watch her actions over time & go from there.

PRNDL posted 7/18/2014 19:02 PM

Such great points!!

notsoOK posted 7/18/2014 21:28 PM

I wouldn't date her at all. Maybe make her think U might. In the meantime date see what's out there. Know this sounds shitty buy let's face it she didn't give a shit about you. All of a sudden yes????? Protect yourself at the same time if you want to explore possable R with wife u can

PRNDL posted 7/18/2014 23:44 PM

I lover her so much. I miss her so much. I knew her since we were kids. She is my son's mother and no one can take her place.

She cheated the entire year of 2012. I caught her march 2013 and she continued with him till 4 months ago. She did not care one bit about me. She even cheated pn him!!

Im such a fool. To this day, even now the we been divirced a month, i have not even spoken to another woman.

I feel so ugly and worthless.

I wish she would have just left me, so i could have moved on.

Now she is so sweet! I miss her, but I can never trust her.

She seems to be in the idealization phase with me. Like she was with the OM. My IC says she is BPD and lacks empathy.

I wish I had balls. You know I never did anything to the OM? Not a punch, not even a curse out over the phone. I lost this one. Bad.

I feel like a loser. I wish she would let me go.

bigskyblues posted 7/19/2014 01:51 AM

PRNDL, this is a pretty common occurrence right out of the cheaters handbook. I went through a very similar situation 2 months after D wanting me back yada yada, I didn't take the bait. Interestingly I am convinced my xww is also BPD (she was in IC but I don't know that she was ever diagnosed). I can surmise what is happening in these situations. They are living the high life in their little fantasy world, and it is a drug to them. Then the fantasy crashes, they are off the drug, and then they realize old Plan B wasn't so bad after all.

Go easy on yourself brother!! Understand you are 1 month out from D with someone you HONESTLY loved, the mother of your child. It has to hurt, it will hurt for a while, I promise it does get better. You are not a loser, ugly, nor worthless. You are simply a good man, good dad that got kicked in the nads and your hurting like hell. I was in the same boat, probably all of us on SI were or are in the same boat.

I fortunately came to the realization early on that my xww was broken pure and simple. I know it is all related to FOO and probably BPD, BUT she made choices, she chose CL and AFF pervs over me the father of our children. After realizing she is broken, and a lot of reading here on SI it became apparent that there was no way I could fix her brokenness, that is all on her and she isn't even trying. I seriously considered trying for R to save our 22 year marriage. I went with D just like you did, she wanted me back just like your does. My reply to her was I have moved on, and never bring it up again. I know that if I had chosen R, the very best I could have hoped for is a life of worrying every time her phone got a message, every time she was checking email, every time she was on the computer, every time she was out of my sight; you get the picture. I can tell you I lived in that world from JFO to D and it damn near killed me, I am not going back to that life. As I said I moved on, I met a wonderful lady, our kids are doing great, I am happy in life for the first time in I don't know how long. You know what, I deserved to be happy because I was a good husband, I was a good dad, I am a good man. We all deserve better.

I would suggest to you that unless you think you can handle that worry of is it real R for the rest of your life, then brother walk away! There is a better world out there for you. Take all the time you need to get healthy, focus on taking care of you, and being the best dad in the world to your child. In time you will heal, life will be better. If your xww is truly BPD there will come a point where you realize you were treated like a piece of shit your entire marriage; you were just too in love to see it (I know I was).

Strength to you PRNDL!

craig2001 posted 7/19/2014 12:17 PM

Her mocking you and the

She would tell me how a "real man" would come home and fix his family.
Interesting, a real man would have done exactly what you did do, divorce.

She has obvious problems and most likely childhood issues that need to be fixed. And only a good IC can do that.

Until your wife tells you the entire reason she did these things, I would be wary of any promises.

I wonder if she really did just snap, or has she had other affairs in those 14 years you dont know about. It seems her affair was not about the OM, but about the affair itself and what comes along with affairs, the outside validation and the excitement part.

Be wary until she tells you something more concrete instead of the promises.

As for you and how you feel, you should read about PTSD. I know that is usually reserved for veterans of war, but the shock of affairs can also cause PTSD. And it is very real.

No one can truly understand what it is like to be the BS unless they have gone through it.

You say you are still in love with your xwife, make sure you realize the difference between love with your xwife or in love with the memory of the good old days.

Thinkingtoomuch posted 7/19/2014 14:49 PM

Hi, PRNDL, I'm sorry for all you've been thru. I'm a woman BS. Here's what happened to me several years ago with 2 different women friends I didn't know had BPD. I considered sisters at the time. (2 different situations and times). Each suddenly and completely turned on me for no reason and majorly stabbed me in the back (figuratively) cruelly after a few years of our friendships. Absolutely shocked me. Then I found out they had been diagnosed and treated for BPD years before.

Now, my spidey senses are always active, and if I even detect any questionable behavior, I'm gone. No more BPD around me, they did such a jekyll/hyde to me. I've dealt with enough seriously dysfunctional people thru the years that affected me for some time. Done.

This was my experience.

[This message edited by Thinkingtoomuch at 2:56 PM, July 19th (Saturday)]

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