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Newest Member: SadDadOf3 (46038)

User Topic: She does not seem remorseful enough
Hopefuldad468
♂ 44143
Member # 44143
Default  Posted: 9:18 PM, July 20th (Sunday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

OK first post with my story...I am somewhere between just found out and figuring out how to reconsile...so I need advice from those whom have tried or succeeded.

Within a month I found out my WS has successfully hidden a many year relationship with someone that was close to us and a private teacher to our kids.

..this guy seems to be a real predator. During my WS's many year relationship, he also concurrently had a relationship with another married mom for several of those years. Let's just say he only likes the married ones who have things to offer him and can't complain too much.

My WS actually broke up with him several times including when he tried to take money from her. She appears addicted to him (addicted by definition of continuing something that is bad for you, you have no future with, but you keep doing it by impulse).

My WS would not admit anything when caught making plans to see him (as he is now furhter away) so was easier to detect. She claimed it was fist time....

Once I collected all evidence (including 2 of the many years of phone records...) I confronted her. I told her I wanted a D and showed some of the evidence. This was only option I had as she previously told me she would never stop talking to her "friend". Much to my surprise she did not want a divorce as there was absolutely " no future with him".

She gave him the NC speech and she had him call me and I also reinforced this calmly and clearly.

My WS actually went through physical withdraw symptoms over this. We are going on a month and are doing better.

We have plans for three stages: 1) get rid of the OM 2) get help for her and 3) work on us.

I have never gotten mad, yelled , or cried in her presence. Just have been the steady kind of guy someone can count on.

The problem is that she has said she is sorry (mostly for getting caught I think) but not sure the level I of remorse is there yet....

She claims to love me. Has agreed to IC and MC....but I just think she should show more remorse at this point.

Is she still in the fog? How long before this can lift?

She once thought this OM was he "soul mate" that she stayed with even as he preyed on other women (and she either knew or suspected). So I find it so hard to understand what he had to offer for so long. I think she is actually mad at me in some ways that I made her have to choose and stop with him....

Any ideas on the stages of remorse for a WS in a LTA (especially if showing signs of addiction)?

[This message edited by Hopefuldad468 at 8:12 AM, August 19th (Tuesday)]


Posts: 73 | Registered: Jul 2014 | From: Midwest USA
LA44
♀ 38384
Member # 38384
Default  Posted: 10:20 PM, July 20th (Sunday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Hey Hopefuldad, so sorry you find yourself here and so sorry for your pain.

I really highly recommend that your wife gets into IC and it would do you a world of good as well to have your own sounding board.

NC is a must. You cannot move forward if she has contact with this person.

Read, read, read. Knowledge is power. Whether its from the Healing Library on SI or some excellent books - Not Just Friends by Sharon Glass, After the Affair by Janis Spring or How to Help your Spouse Heal From Your Affair (give that one to her!).

Her feeling angry at you for breaking up this fantasy is apparently normal. She is likely still in the fog. This will lift as long as there is NC, time passes and she does the work on herself. She will hopefully get to remorse but it will take time. It seems for those emotionally invested it takes longer then those who were just in it for the sex.

Glad you are posting. There are many men here whose wives had LTA's. SI is an excellent place to get help.

Best wishes.


Me: 44
He: 47 WH
Married: 15 years
D Day: December 2012
Affair: Fall 2009 - Dec. 2011
R is not linear

Posts: 2677 | Registered: Feb 2013 | From: Canada, eh
tfkeel
♂ 19517
Member # 19517
Default  Posted: 10:31 PM, July 20th (Sunday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

The withdrawal symptoms, refusing to end it herself, being mad at me for ending it by calling the OMs wife, telling me she was "sorry this had to hurt me", speaking of it as if it were governed by someone or something outside of her....

These all "added up" to me.... she's sorry she got caught, but not sorry she did it.

As to any "timetable", these things did not change any at all over the period of almost a year. I then decided to cut all intimacy and companionship with her completely, as well as any attempt at R.

Is she still in the fog? How long before this can lift?

IMO, one day after DD is a sufficient amount of time for the "fog" to become CAVU. The wayward spouse CONTROLS and CHOOSES the "fog". The "fog" can be unchosen on 5 seconds notice.

[This message edited by tfkeel at 10:37 PM, July 20th (Sunday)]


Posts: 684 | Registered: May 2008 | From: Pennsylvania
20WrongsVs1
♀ 39000
Member # 39000
Default  Posted: 10:55 PM, July 20th (Sunday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I'm a FWW and can relate to being addicted to the AP. It took me about 6 months, seeing a therapist weekly, to get to remorse. The conventional wisdom around here is to wait about 6 months before making life-altering, marriage-ending decisions. But, you should do whatever you feel is right in your situation. I'm glad my BH waited around for me to shake off the fog, but I wouldn't wish that hell on anyone. If you want to walk now, by all means, you are totally justified in doing so.

This was no ordinary A...as this guy is a real predator

Sorry, but yeah, it was an ordinary A. Currently you seem to be placing a lot of blame on OM, and that's completely normal and expected in early days. But the blame lies solely, irrevocably, and completely on your WW. She needs to take complete responsibility for her deliberate, conscious choices, and acknowledge that her cheating was 100% on her, and that you in no way deserved that.

I think she is actually mad at me in some ways that I made her have to choose and stop with him

Yeah, she probably is. And that is bullshit. You need to decide how long you're going to tolerate that.

Much to my surprise she did not want a divorce

It's a real shocker to us WS, that our actions actually might have consequences. The best thing you can do right now, IMO, is put the hammer down and make it clear to your WW what you will and will not tolerate. Make it clear that you are ready to file for D the moment she violates your conditions, whatever you decide those are.

Is OM married?


fWW: 42
BH: 52
DDay: April 21, 2013
Sweet DS & fierce DD, under 10
"Between stimulus and response there’s a space, in that space lies our power to choose our response, in our response lies our growth and our freedom." V. Frankl

Posts: 1260 | Registered: Apr 2013 | From: Redneck land
Hopefuldad468
♂ 44143
Member # 44143
Default  Posted: 7:00 AM, July 21st (Monday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

20Wrongvs1

Thanks. Other man is married...but not really. They are estranged and live 1000 miles apart. She is my friend as well and I considered telling her everything. However the OM is actually described by our MC as being possibly showing sociopathic tendencies and we decided together that informing her right away may not be the best action due to potential risks to our family and his temper and paranoia (details which I am uncomfortable sharing in open forum).

I will save discussion with her till later...

I also do not absolve her of any blame. My WS chose 100% to be in this destructive relationship. She is 100% to blame for this choice. However, I do blame him more than a regular guy....as he has a pattern of lying, pretending he is something other than what he is, mental and emotional manipulation, and is actually a con-artist in this for what he can gain. This combined with his situation of being around married moms with kids, allows him to seek ones that show any vulnerabilities.

I know the second affair partner other than my WS...they have a lot in common. I am also sure there were others.

I am just amazed the addiction can be so strong even after he shows his true colors and she recognized the con and manipulation. She tells me she knows in Her head but not in her heart....

[This message edited by Hopefuldad468 at 8:21 AM, August 19th (Tuesday)]


Posts: 73 | Registered: Jul 2014 | From: Midwest USA
Didact
♂ 42867
Member # 42867
Default  Posted: 8:45 AM, July 21st (Monday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Beware the line that you shouldn't tell other man'a wife for fear that OM is mentally unstable. This is a common (very) line straight out of the cheaters handbook. Tell her. She may choose to do nothing, but she will be choosing based on the facts.

My wife was furious with me when I told OBW. She now thanks me. OBW has no love for me, mostly because I am in love with some she wants to hate so deeply. But she thanks me. The only one now unhappy with my choice to tell OBW is the creepy guy she got involved with. I can live with that, so can you. Tell her.

Further, and I don't really know the answer on this one, if sounds like there is yet another BS out there. If you know who he is, he probably deserves to know too.

As for the fog lifting, it takes time, even with remorseful spouses. Don't buy any line that she just had to keep in love with him out of fear of the A being exposed. I think the how-to on that story is in the same chapter as "we can't tell psycho man's wife". At any point she could have simply told you. At the very least she could have ended the A and see if he was willing to risk it.

This wasn't just infatuation in your case, in six years there was some real attachment, and it will take some time for that to dissolve, but only if she wants it, only if there truly is no more contact, and so on. The onus is on your wife. The first step is to totally expose the A and the AP. Fog hates the sun.

Good luck, this is hell.


No matter how painful, life either adapts or it dies.

BH (Me) 49
WW 48
Married 1985
D-Day Mar 19, 2014
1 year passionate EA/PA, ended by me on d-day.
Attempting to R


Posts: 270 | Registered: Mar 2014 | From: PNW
3yrwait
♂ 29907
Member # 29907
Default  Posted: 8:54 AM, July 21st (Monday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I am very sorry to hear your situation. Many of us are familiar with the lack of remorse.
If you haven't already done so, collect your information, protect it so that it can't be destroyed, and visit a lawyer about your options. You need to be protect yourself and your kids.

It sounds like you have tremendous self control and rationality. I have a similar personality. Our problem our WWs know they can push the boundaries without major consequences; they can believe the OM tricked them into having sex and it wasn't their fault. We will always be there to accept them and protect and heal the family, because that is the greatest good. The problem is we won't ever be healed ourselves.

I've gone seven years and don't feel true remorse, so I am obviously not the expert here. I never even managed to get us into counseling ("too busy" "they will just say everything is my fault"). I would ask, however, what you think shows true remorse. What actions would she take now, 1 year and 5 years out that would make you feel like "yeah, she know she hurt me, and wants to make it up to me"? It is possible she wants to help but doesn't know what to communicate. For me, it would include unforced favors or gestures of apology, and bringing up my pain without getting into a fight about it...but that's just me.

As far as the OM, I understand your need to protect your family; they definitely come first. His spouse does need to know, though. In my situation, the OM was also a manipulative prick. I was told the spouse was mentally unstable, so we never told her. What a convenient thing that I could never verify; so regretfully I never told her. It took me a long time to understand the games they were playing, and where I fit into them.

[This message edited by 3yrwait at 8:59 AM, July 21st (Monday)]


Me: BH (early 40s)
Her: WW (early 40s)
Married 15 years
1 daughter, under 10
DDay July 2007

Posts: 469 | Registered: Oct 2010 | From: 3yrwait
Hopefuldad468
♂ 44143
Member # 44143
Default  Posted: 12:24 PM, July 21st (Monday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Thank you.

I will likey eventually tell his astranged spouse (as I was once her friend and she deserves better). To be honest..she may know more than I did already with the other As he has had.

Trust me, this is not my WS telling stories about the OM.or trying to keep her from finding out. Her somewhat exact words were "I don't give a crap if you tell her"..this delay in telling her was more the MC recommendation based on what I told him. You have to realize I know the OM very well and I once called him a friend. I know what he is capable of and I have seen what he has done in other situations first hand. I am personally not frightened of him for myself, as he pretends to be an alpha male but deep down is somewhat of a coward that wants to avoid confrontation and any real relationships with un-wed partners. However, I am concerned for the kids and some of the things he can do in our specific situation....and in keeping the NC agreement at this early stage.

I will use this information as I have all other information...when I need it and when it will have the most positive effect for me.


Posts: 73 | Registered: Jul 2014 | From: Midwest USA
Hopefuldad468
♂ 44143
Member # 44143
Default  Posted: 12:36 PM, July 21st (Monday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Didact...

I did forget to address one of your points....yes there was another WW involved with him. She was brave and told her BH herself. She is now D and free to do as she wishes. The OMW has already been made aware of this A....and that is why they are estranged.

[This message edited by Hopefuldad468 at 8:18 AM, August 19th (Tuesday)]


Posts: 73 | Registered: Jul 2014 | From: Midwest USA
Topic Posts: 9

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