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I had a conversation with a RL wayward (not my ex) and he said the reason tickle truth is so common is because we BSes would not be able to handle the whole truth in one felt swoop. I *disagreed and a very heated argument developed.

Then he made a point that I actually agreed with. We will never know the truth 100% because we weren't there. We won't know every detail, every conversation, exact feelings, etc. because it didn't involve us. And that makes affairs such unfair bull shit.

*That should have been I disagreed, hence the argument we had.

[This message edited by movingforward13 at 10:31 AM, July 22nd (Tuesday)]

I wonder if it is the WS that can't handle processing all the "truth" of their lies and deception at one time, thus the TT.

We had 3 big days of TT over the course of 6 months, They were pretty ugly. On the last one, our dear friend (our minister) was in tears with us. My FWH just could not say the words that I knew were the final truths.

That night I woke up in the middle of the night with a serene calmness. I woke up my WH and said, "I can handle it now. Tell me everything you have been holding on to. His mouth twitched, the tears started to silently fall.

He told me the worst of it, some stuff I already deduced and some that was surprising. But, we just calmly stared at the ceiling and silently cried. The drama fell away, it hurt like hell, but it was finally when i could hear it, finally when he could tell it and we could start to heal.

I had old stuff that I finally shared with him too. The utter relief of both of us to be completely broken enough to be honest about our whole 30 years together was pretty powerful stuff. We call it "the worst day and the best day" of our lives. Our new beginning started then.

The second part is probably true, we never will know 100% of the truth. For most us will never know 10% of the truth.

The first part I think is BS. Cheating is about selfishness, and TT is a continuation of that selfishness. TT is so the cheater doesn't have to be 100% accountable. They are lying to the BS and to themselves so they don't have to face what they have done.

BSB

oh I can handle the truth. the person telling the truth might not be able to handle me once I've heard it.

the kind of statement your friend gave you is self serving and self protective.

[This message edited by mike7 at 7:11 AM, July 22nd (Tuesday)]

I would rather have heard every painful thing at once. ..all one horrible experience rather than be reeling in what ifs and probablys and rather than being told there was no more only to find out months later that there was. Instead of one cluster of gut wrenching information I got wounded all over again. No. Not for me. I'd rather it be all at once.

[This message edited by FixYou71 at 7:55 AM, July 22nd (Tuesday)]

I guess it is an indication of my lack of strength – I know that I could not handle all of the information in one fell swoop. The day I saw the picture of the prostitute my husband had been with, I think I sort of lost my mind. I do not have clear memories of the day - what words were spoken. Even if he had told me 100% of the story, I would not remember it to this day. There is something to be said for total disclosure all it once - but also a little bit less at a time in order to be able to absorbed.

[This message edited by WhatsRight at 7:25 AM, July 22nd (Tuesday)]

I'm with Whatsright. There is no way I could have processed everything at once and maintained my sobriety and sanity.

I feel like I was allowed to process in manageable chunks and given some time to recover a little bit. If I had been handed every bit of the truth in January or June of 2011, I can say with no doubt in my mind that I would not have been open to R at all.

I agree that the betrayed will never have the complete truth -

I, personally, disagree with the idea that we can't handle the truth.

I think the wayward should do whatever the betrayed asks - I asked for complete and total truth on Dday 1. I didn't get it. Wh chose once again what he thought was best. Wh chose what protected him and chickie.

Wh had already taken choice away from me for 2+ years, the least he could have done was have the balls to be truthful when I blew the affair out of unicorn land.

I agree with mike7. I could handle the truth. It is not my problem that wh didn't like my reaction.

eta: Even if wh HAD given full disclosure, I would have gone back with questions - probably the same questions over and over.

[This message edited by stunnedin12 at 7:54 AM, July 22nd (Tuesday)]

I told my WH this past weekend that HE could not handle the truth. That truth being the mess he has made of our lives, our marriage, my lack of self esteem, my lack of safety, my lack of respect for him, and his own lack of integrity due to TT.

I can handle the truth because I try to always speak the truth and live in total transparency. WS project their own weakness onto the BS when they think we can not handle the truth, when in reality, it is them that cannot handle the truth. They lie and continue the cover up because the truth scares the bejesus out of them. The liar is the one for whom the truth burns like acid, not the betrayed.

I would have rather had the whole truth at the beginning. It would have saved me a lot of mind games and wondering and begging for the truth. Some of the things I made up in my mind were worse than the truth.

I would rather have been told it all at once. The tickle truth almost killed me. To TT is to continue to lie and he knew I hated to be lied to. I was trying to heal and it set us back each time.

IMO the lies. be they TT or lies of omission or even just keeping secrets about the affair. are ONLY about control. I dont want to generalize because every person and situ is different. but it seems to me that by controlling what a person knows you control their actions.

So it isnt about protecting us at all. instead its all about protecting the WS by controlling the BS.

Maybe some WS think that if they tell us the worst of it we will leave them. So they protect us by lying. but what they really want is to keep the M together for the benefits they get from it. so in fact they are protecting themself.

In this way by lying a WS controls the consequence of their actions. They prevent repercussions. and they get to keep a lifestyle.

And in some cases. like my WW. they lie to protect good memories of their times with the AP.

IMO the lying is the worst. It is just so disrespectful. Not allowing a person to choose the path their life should take. Imprisoning someone behind bars of lies steals years and years of life from them. It makes them a puppet controlled by their lying puppet master.

In my situ. I believe my WW keeps secrets from me because she doesnt want to set me free. She gets to keep all those happy affair memories from being soiled by my tears. Perhaps she is even laughing at me from behind her mask of sincerity. And in moments when she is mad at me I know she can fall back and know she got a *few good licks* in that I will never know about.

I believe that the lies actually do more harm than the affair does. IMO as long as the lies continue the affair also continues.

TT is common because it's a way for WSs to CYA. Plain and simple. They are faced with the ugliness of their choices and the delicate balance they have between the M and the A and are trying desperately to hold on to feeling good about themselves.

Even if it costs the BS further trust and security.

It sure as hell isn't to protect the BS.

my WH told it to me this way

"I don't feel safe sharing my feelings."

I asked for his forgiveness that I have been a poor listener, that I have not simply accepted he is sharing his thoughts and feelings with me and that I am not being asked to "fix" anything in return. It's not about me interpreting what he's saying and judging myself and him for what he says...

I said for me to heal I need him to be truthful with me as I otherwise cannot get past the fear I feel when I have thoughts/judgments like "trusting him is foolish, I am just opening up myself to more hurt."

I said I was willing to give him a chance to be truthful with me to begin to show me he is acting trustworthy and that I in return was willing to give him a safe place to share his feelings. That I was just going to listen and accept what he had to say and not react to my hurt feelings or my fear or my sadness in ways that would only add to the hurt and pain we have to now share and process together if we are to walk honestly together = as a couple.

handling the truth to me means sharing and opening up to be vulnerable to one another

that's the only way coupledom works = we have to cherish and honor the vulnerability we share together

so yah, I can handle the truth while agreeing I will never know and understand THE WHOLE TRUTH... I can accept the grace to be in the moment nonetheless and I hope your WH agrees to part with any remaining notions that separating out "truths" singly decided as "protecting" a BS's feelings etc. only slow the healing

I don't agree - so the gist is that if we were given the whole truth up front we couldn't handle it, but we can handle being lied to and discovering that on our own? I've been through that demo. It's pretty harsh. I think it comes down to several things that have been already mentioned here. My take is that they are afraid of the consequences of telling us much as they can. I know it will never be 100%, but because of TT I doubt I have 50% of the info. I got tired of hearing that I knew it all and worse and worse shit kept getting discovered. So I just quit asking.

Every BS always will ask the same thing at the end of the conversation:

Is this everything?

When you answer that question with a lie you doing as much damage as you did with the affair.

oh I can handle the truth. the person telling the truth might not be able to handle me once I've heard it.

Amen Mike7!

"I don't feel safe sharing my feelings."

My WW has said this. My reply was that I dont feel safe not knowing the truth.

My WW insists that I should trust her NOW because she isnt cheating NOW. But how can I trust her when she is still lying? because IMO as long as she keeps secrets she continues to lie.

Its true that none of us will ever know 100% of the truth. because we can never know their thoughts. And in my case I believe that if my WW knows there is no way I can tell if she is telling the truth or not she will continue to lie.

I also get the *I dont remember* line. which is the perfect escape for a person that doesnt want to tell the truth about something. because how can you penetrate *I dont remember*?

I believe though that if a WS is sincere about wanting R that they should work hard to provide all the information their BS asks for. Going beyond that and telling of things we dont suspect actually would build some amount of trust. because the WS could have gotten away with lying but they had enough integrity and enough respect for us that they gave us the truth.

IMO as long as the WS continues to lie and hide things and *forget* then there is no way they should be trusted.

TT protects/benefits the WS. Always has, always will.

I agree that TT is all about the wayward covering his own ass. You think you're doing me some kind of favor by re-setting me to DDay with every new revelation? That death by a thousand cuts is less painful than one big nuclear explosion? No.

And no, we will never have the truth. I don't think WSs even tell themselves the truth, so how can they give it to us?