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and it gets worse... The OW is very close to me. She is my SIL and my boss. She has been my strongest supporter in trying to R with her brother. She didn't speak to my H for 6 months after she found out. However, she is very broken.

Over the past several years that we have worked together we have grown to be more like sisters than related by marriage. In that time she has shared with me that she was a victim of CSA at age 11 by an older cousin whom I also know. He was 17 at the time and has been in and out of jail for his whole adult life. He lived with my SIL and my H's family when he was a teenager because of a run in with the police and his mom was a single parent who couldn't control him. She didn't tell anyone at the time and the rest of her family still doesn't know. Just me.

She is a commitment-phobe. Has been in several long term relationships that led to engagement but always ended up breaking things off suddenly and without ever looking back. She is 37, never been married, and a physically beautiful woman. She recently broke off a 7 year relationship with a much older female. She has always maintained that she is not a lesbian even though there was a sexual relationship in the beginning, there has not been anything sexual between them in at least 5 years. But the girlfriend had some sort of manipulative control over her and it took a lot for her to finally muster up the courage to tell the girlfriend that she wanted to date men and possible have a family someday so she needed to move on. The girlfriend agreed to be roommates and split the bill until my SIL finds another place to live.

She tried to commit suicide about 4 years ago, but was found unconscious in the garage by her neighbor in the middle of the day who just happened to come home early from work early and sense that something was not right. She has told me in recent weeks that she has been tempted to try another route, but doesn't think she ever would. She says she doesn't want to die, but it is hard to stop thinking about it sometimes.

Insert MM whom also works with us. He is 4 years younger than SIL. I see him every day. He is a "good guy." I like him. He is not flirtatious with the women at work. It is a small place of employment (about 30 employees). He is very good at what he does and very valuable to our company. very educated and I don't know a lot about his personal life, but he was raised in an average, well to do middle class family. Despite her brokenness, my SIL is also very valuable to our company. She is a great boss and leader and from the outside seem so very strong and confident. Very smart girl.

Sorry this is so long but I am getting there..

When MM started working for our company 1.5 years ago, he and my SIL started running together. MM's wife didn't care because she, along with MM at that time thought she was a lesbian. Everyone had met her live in "girlfriend" and she was very obviously gay. A lot of the time other people run with them. But more and more it has become just the two of them. MM has been married for 6 years. He has a two year old daughter.

I have noticed over the last several months that SIL gets a little pep in her step now when he is around her at work. Smiley and giggles...him too. My radar has been up, but I never saw anything inappropriate. No one else at work suspects anything because they all think she is gay.. She does not share anything personal with employees and only about 4 of us know about her "relationship" with the gf is over.

SIL has been telling me for a couple of weeks that she needs to talk to me about something with me but then changes her mind at the last minute. Finally, we hang out over the weekend and have a few drinks. She spills it. He confessed to her that he is " in love" with her. She says, nothing physical has happened..no kiss..no holding hands ...nothing. But, all of a sudden she is in love with him too. She thinks he is "her person." She told me that if it weren't for me and my sich with her brother that she probably would have had sex with him by now..but she knows how devastated I was as a BW and after seeing it firsthand with me, she could never do that to another person..There has been some texting and late night phone calls...texting each other love songs..etc.

I have met MM's wife a couple of times. She is very quiet. Of course, according to MM she is an ice queen. He says They have only had sex 3 times in the past year. He says that she is not affectionate to him and that the marriage is over and has been for a long time. This is all coming from SIL, MM has told me nothing. He is in a position of authority over me..but not directly like my SIL.

MM has told my SIL that he is divorcing so that they can be together. He has told his wife he wants a divorce and has also told our company president and Vice President that he is getting divorced. He was supposed to go see his attorney today. Supposedly, his wife saw an attorney on Friday and came home saying she didn't want to D. He still says he D'ing.

My SIL called in sick today because she stayed awake all night, texting back and forth with me, saying how much she hates herself and that what she will never be enough for him once he sees how broken she is...but that she loves him and that he is all she wants. Then, she worries that he is making a mistake. She has texted him telling him to work out things with his wife because she doesn't think someone like him could possibly love her. He says too late and the decision is made.

Meanwhile, my day at work is intense because MM knows that I know something, but he has no idea how much. He is obviously feeling a little uncomfortable around me and I have no idea what to do or say to him. My SIL has begged me not say anything to anyone because either or both of them could be fired.

So, EA. He is going to D and ride off into the sunset with my SIL. OMG. Is this what is really about to happen in my work life too...if have no idea what to do. Part of me thinks that he has no idea what life with her would be like, but we all work together in pretty close quarters and he has seen a lot of her ups and downs. She thinks she could be bi-polar but has never been diagnosed. I think she is very possibly right. She has been in IC a couple of times but says it didn't help.

Then there is the other part of me wondering about his BW. My H said the same things about me... We never had sex anymore and that I didn't have any feelings for him. But he was never around. I was very depressed for 2 or 3 years after having our 1st child and didn't really understand what was going on inside my own head and he is right..I never wanted sex because he was not emotionally supportive. He expected to come home after the baby was asleep and I had also worked all day AND taken care of the baby, and dinner and bath for baby and cleaning, and slap my ass. That was my queue to jump his bones. Nope. Couldn't do it.

I can't help but relate to BW here. If MM and BW are not having sex maybe he is a control freak asshole.. Maybe he has issues with intimacy. I know my H did.

She wants my honesty. I just don't know what that is...I mean if he is divorcing before anything physical happens, and that is what he wants to do so they can be together. But once he moves out...if he does and starts hanging with my SIL 24/7 he may change his mind. That worries me for her. Bit it is probably even more likely that she would be the one to break OM's heart. She thinks she wants him, but I am not so sure that she can really know that without being single for a while

I feel like I am watching my H's A in front of me. What the hell am I supposed to do with this..So Far, I have told her she needs to step back from the situation until he is divorced. I have sympathy for my SIL here. I feel like she is about to make a huge mistake. What do I do here? I can't out them at work or to BW. Any advice would be great.

Im so sorry that you find yourself in this situation. I can't see any of this going well. Sounds like emotional manipulation. Them being in love is an allusion and in itself emotional manipulation. Though you love her, she's part of your family, the choice is hers. Working together, running together and discussing personal issues doesn't make a relationship...they are being delusional. Problem is, they don't see it that way.

He does sound manipulative and your SIL still isn't in a safe place- with herself.

I have to say again how sorry that I am for you being put in this situation. Sadly, I have no advice. Im unsure as to how I would handle this. I honestly haven't the foggiest idea.

However, I wish you well. There are some very astute folks here that might have useful advice.

Liars cheat and cheaters lie......

So she believes this MM who lies to his wife...brilliant.

My H told his OW we were practically in a sexless M. Couldn't have been farther from the truth. Maybe things have been bad between them for the past year because he has been up to his neck in an EA or PA for the last year? WH often rewrite the M to sanitize the A.

Even without addressing your SIL's complicity in this situation, you could point out to her how absolutely ridiculously textbook this OM is, and what they have is an ordinary gutter-variety affair, not some cosmic relationship. How if he'll cheat with her, he'll cheat on her. How most cheaters aren't giving enough at home, rather than the not-getting-enough at home bs that they spew.

As far as them losing their jobs for having a workplace affair - boo-freaking-hoo. That's called a consequence in the grown-up world.

If it were me I would give her a hard dose of reality type advice about being in an A. Then tell her to leave me out of it, I would refuse to be her secret-keeper. I would give her no advice about their so-called relationship other than get out of it and quit telling me about it.

Sometimes, as a friend, what we need to give our friends is a dose of tough love, rather than holding their hand while they walk into fire......

[This message edited by JustWow at 7:19 AM, July 23rd (Wednesday)]

LTL

My WGF recently told me "there wasn't anything you could have done that would have stopped me from having the affair". It was one of the few honest and self-reflective statements she has made since DDay. This is what you are dealing with. Unreasonable people have irrational thoughts...period. You can only voice a real honest opinion to your SIL regarding what she is about to embark on. A lesbian? Not a lesbian? Wants a family? Commitment-phobe? All that doesn't matter. Your dealing with a extremely confused conflicted person that is desperately seeking some type of emotional solace. She is looking in all the wrong places. Until she looks where the issues are (inside of her) there isn't anything you can do stop what is about to happen. Be honest, recommend IC, and detach yourself emotionally. If her and MM move forward, you know the results. This is only my humble opinion but I would not embroil yourself emotionally regardless of the familial relationship. If you are like me, you have enough on your plate dealing with your own Wayward. Good luck.

So they ruin the poor wife's life and leave her to raise a child on her own to fulfill a selfish fantasy.

I guess the heart want's what the heart want's.

Humans are so selfish.

I remember one of my best friends confided in me, the best friend that supported me during my ws A. The friend that called him a cheating dog. She told me, like your sil is doing, after the "feelings" started. I was so upset with her for dragging me into her shitstorm. She made me feel like an accomplice just by knowing. I begged, scolded, reminded her of my family's pain, the whole 9 yards and she still did it anyway. It blew up, om's bs found out, her bs found out. It was a mess.

Like ISITME just posted above, his w said nothing could have stopped her. Just like my friend. As much as I reminded her of what she had to lose, how her family would be affected, she still justified and had the balls to say, this is different I we are....drum roll please...SOULMATES..yep she said it.

So I.know your close with sil and she knows the repercussions, I think she will prob do it anyway unfortunately.

I think its really chicken shit of her to put you in this "secret keeper" position so maybe someone can give you some advice on what to do. I personally told my friend not to say one more word to me about her A. I should have told om bs but they were friends kids of my parents and it would have been extremely awkward.

[This message edited by Ostrich80 at 8:04 AM, July 23rd (Wednesday)]

My advice to her would be to step back and stop all contact until the divorce is final. Ive heard a lot of affairs starting with "she doesn't understand me" "we are getting divorced" "he never wants sex" etc. Its like in the cheaters handbook or something. If things are really that bad then the person would have already started the divorce proceedings.

If the MM really loves your SIL he would step back and divorce his wife before trying to start something with your SIL. Sounds like hes more looking for something on the side. Maybe Im cynical but it doesn't sound like a happier ever after situation to me.

I think the most useful thing you can do is support your SIL in getting some help. She struggles with many issues: suicide, previous abuse, commitment issues plus more.

She has told me in recent weeks that she has been tempted to try another route, but doesn't think she ever would. She says she doesn't want to die, but it is hard to stop thinking about it sometimes.

This needs some immediate attention. She tried to commit suicide before in a way that no one should of found her. That is not a cry for attention - that is someone that is struggling with suicide. I know of someone that had also had suicidal impulses but openly declared he did not want to die. Ultimately, he did do it. He said the thoughts were so strong. Please do not ignore that or trust her statement of her not really wanting to die. Those can be two separate animals (as hard as it is to understand). Meaning - she may not want to die but can't control it.

I would just really push to her that she can never be truely happy (or a good partner) until she can heal herself.

I am sorry - I know you were looking for more for advice on that SIL/MM side of it but that is just another symptom of her problems. On the positive, she knows she is broken so that is half the battle.

[This message edited by EvenKeel at 8:52 AM, July 23rd (Wednesday)]

First - I'm so sorry you find yourself in this situation. I'm pretty sure I wouldn't be taking it all as well you are.

Next, I'm going to third isitme

We all know what it's like when people are in A land - there is nothing you can do to derail this train.

I do think your SIL is going to get hurt. What they have isn't real -- it's an A relationship -- which means a key component of the allure is the "new" and "secret". It is a relationship with a short shelf life no matter what. You told her to step back -- and I think that's all you can do.

Hopefully she'll take your advice. Pre-A my sister was the AP for a MM at work. It was (even before I personally knew the pain of an A) one of the most stressful, frustrating and sad situations I've ever had to deal with. She was so far in, there was no pulling her out. I watched her implode (she tried to commit suicide, was severely depressed -- she is diagnosed BPD ) It didn't matter what I said - or how much pain she was in or how mush she *knew* she should get out -- she didn't. Protect yourself. As much as you want to help SIL - don't let yourself get dragged down into.

[This message edited by brokeninfl at 8:57 AM, July 23rd (Wednesday)]

Something like 7? 8? years ago, a friend of mine was having an affair with a married man. She gushed to me that he was really unhappy with his wife, he was planning to divorce her, couldn't wait to be single so he could be with her . . . even took her to a piece of land he owned, and talked about the house he would build there and how she could come over and he'd cook her dinner . . . .yeah, you guessed it, 8 years later he's still married and she's still single. So, anyway, yeah.

I think you might want to print out one of the threads here in General, if you can find it. I think it's called the Cheater's Handbook, or something like that? Just so she can maybe see for herself how it's all textbook, all lies, all bullshit.

Honestly I feel bad for your SIL too. She reminds me of the friend I mentioned above - CSA, very confused, lots of brokenness.

ETA - what Broken said above is a good point. There may be just nothing you can do. I tried to talk to my friend about how this guy wasn't special, about how he was leading her on - and all that happened is she stopped talking to me for a month. Because I just didn't understand, you see, how special their love was.

[This message edited by JanaGreen at 8:59 AM, July 23rd (Wednesday)]

Ugh, what a horrible situation - she is your BOSS and he is your SUPERIOR.

There is no way to stop interacting with either of them. Ugh ugh ughhhhhh.

I feel for you. It's not like you can just tell her to stop talking to you.

They are both adults and it's got nothing to do with you. You have no choice but to watch the trainwreck happen in spite of any advice you may have to offer.

I thought about talking to MM. He is the more rational one if the two of them and he knows about my situation as a BW. I thought maybe my point of view in the situation that his W finds herself might be helpful. Neither of them sees it the same as my sich but it is the SAME.

Also, want to point out that he DID go see an attorney yesterday and started proceedings for D. He is infatuated with her. I think he thinks he can save her. Ugh.

IF he goes through with D then they can do whatever they want even though I am sure co-workers will be suspicious be cause they have been friends since the beginning. If he does not go through with D there is no way I will be able to face the two of them every day. It is like all day trigger.

I can actually say that seeing it unfold is teaching me something about waywards and probably even specifically my H's A. He was friends with his AP first and feelings developed over time. Interesting how I am able to empathize with my SIL and MMCOW but not my H. I guess I need to work on that.