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Why isn't a phone number not confessed to, a locked phone they won't unlock, or online ID's and Passwords hidden not enough proof?

Why can't "I miss you's" from another woman, or deleted calls, texts, and emails, or just all around 'you're crazy' not enough proof?

Why is it that I feel like I need red handed, right in front of my face, couldn't deny it even if the pope wanted to deny it - proof?

I get stone walled at every turn, he expects me to be trustful and truthful for my past, but refuses to give me the same for his present.

Why is the little bits of evidence just not enough? I wish it was, I really wish it was.

Maybe because your heart isn't ready to face it? I know that when I look back at all of the overwhelming proof that was in front of my face prior to my d-day and I didn't put it together or snap to what was going on when it was so obvious, I always thought it was because my brain wouldn't let my heart face the truth. I think that everyone faces the truth in their own time and when they are ready. Until then, a lot of justifications can be made to protect our hearts. Sorry you're hurting.

This may sound harsh, but it's not meant that way: self-denial is a very powerful. You don't want it to be true, so therefore you need one more-convincing piece of evidence after another. I was guilty of this myself. I would grasp for any alternative explanation to avoid what I deep down in my gut knew was going on with WW.

It sounds like you've been gaslighted so long that you don't know how to listen to your gut.
Everything you mentioned is already grounds for divorce regardless of an affair. You just don't feel it is enough because he has convinced you it isn't and you are crazy. You aren't crazy, and you don't need to actually catch them while screwing to walk away. I've heard stories on this site that some have walked in on them having sex and the WS still denied and tried to make the BS think they were crazy and weren't seeing what they were seeing.
I never got the "proof", just saw all the phone calls/text messages. There were literally at least 100 a day. That was more than enough proof for me because I had known all along that he wasn't "right", but had thought it was because of his PTSD. Seeing the phone bill helped everything click into place. But I trusted my gut.

Because you want the story he's giving to be the truth. The alternative is searing pain, so we cling to any hope that maybe, just maybe, we're being told the truth. We know we aren't, but we convince ourselves otherwise.

I know EXACTLY where you're coming from. I am in a situation with plenty of proof in front of me (the same kind of proof that you have), yet I seem to need to walk in on him and the suspected OW, to believe it's really happening.

And like a PP said, it's tied into denial and not being ready to face it and then having to make a hard decision as a result.

Hugs!

I spent years 'wanting' to believe him. Wanting it to be....doesn't make it so.

I wasted way too long in that state so I urge you not to make that same mistake.

If he can't do what you need, you can't heal.

The irony for me was once I decided I was done and I was not going to let him write my future, the proof came. Throughout the D, I got all sorts of new information that let me know I was doing the right thing.

all truth - but as I live and breath - I know that I don't need to walk in on him with another woman to know that this is some stinky shit.

And I am a fWS, so I know how sneaky, slimy, and horrible one can be to a BS. Maybe my guilt is also making excuses?

I am just tired of being told that I am nosey and in his business. I am tired of being told that he will never go to counseling again - but I am welcome to go on my own. I am tired of reading book after book to help 'us' but he won't participate. I am tired of being the only one with the issue - and not being taken seriously.

I am also crushed because when we are good - we are good. I am just a bit lost at the moment.

Being lost is understandable. You have been badly hurt. You aren't the only one with an issue but you seem to be the only one willing to face reality right now. Hang in there.

When you were the WS did he come here for help?

When you were the WS did he come here for help?

No, my first marriage I was the WS..I had no idea what an EA was until I came here forever ago. DH was an EA I was having while still married at the end and when I left and filed for divorce from my XH, DH and I began our physical relationship - but technically - DH was an EA from my first marriage.

The overlap of me being a WS in my current marriage was a left over EA that (again, I didn't know what they were) that I was exiting once my relationship with DH started to get serious.

DH found emails that were sexual that I had not deleted yet - even though I had blocked all contact with the other guy.

At that point I came here - learned all the correct terms and started down the path of WS help. I was 100% transparent and open with DH. He has (still) all of my passwords (except this one, SI is my diary, though he knows I post here). He has access to my phone 24/7 and for YEARS I never went out without him, never did social functions without him. I missed family vacations, friends nights out, and other social things that I really can't get back. I was a hermit for him for about 3 years.

Now that the roles are reversed - I am shocked that I can not get the same openness and honesty from him - that he demanded from me. I am confused by the double standard of it all.

Why is it that I feel like I need red handed, right in front of my face, couldn't deny it even if the pope wanted to deny it - proof?

I get stone walled at every turn, he expects me to be trustful and truthful for my past, but refuses to give me the same for his present.

I got stonewalled too. Any question i askd, anythg i pointed out as strange or unusual or inappropriate...he made an excuse for it, there was some good reason, it wasnt what it seemed. I wanted that undeniable proof too so he would stop bullshittg me, tell the truth and face his fuckups

Then i got my hard core proof and all that stopped. He couldn't deny his messiness any more. But it didnt stop him from TT or going underground

So all that to say, hard proof really doesnt make any difference. With or without it u still feel what u feel and know what u know inside. It still hurts like hell

Maybe a part of you is trying to prove its not true, because it hurts to bad to realize what's happening. I say this because I did it. I kept saying one more thing, one more bit of evidence and then.I will do something. I.didn't want to do something, I wanted to be wrong. It's painful to see, no one wants to know until they are ready to face it. Denial is miserably safe, if you kwim. Trust me, I so so get this. Took me several years to accept that it was real. My head knew it but my heart kept praying for a huge misunderstanding.

(((Undefinabl3)))

I know this is difficult. I really do.

Best possible thing you can do for yourself, your marriage, your husband, and any other part of your family is get very very real with your WS. Meaning, use the 180, and file for divorce. It is not this easy, but it truly is this simple.

My heart goes out to you.

For the longest time, I thought I had to catch the X 'in flagrante dilicto', even though I had caught him and the OW together many times. He always had 'plausible deniability'.

It wasn't until I realized that I had enough to convict him in civil court if not criminal court that I knew enough was enough. All of the lies, sneaking around and hiding things added up to a big, fat pile of shit that I no longer wanted to deal with.

Well technically your WH was your affair partner in your first marriage. Maybe he still feels justified to do what he wants? Sometimes the BS is broken as well and so the trauma of being betrayed doesn't stop the train wreck. I'm just saying that even though most wouldn't cheat after being the betrayed that his original behavior of being your AP is in line with his current behavior.

I'm so sorry.

Regardless, you go about things the same way any other BS should. He needs to be open and committed or you do the 180 as suggested and start getting on with your life-without him.

Stop doing laundry for him, cooking, anything for him. His new skeezball can help him now. Pull back from him and invest your time and care into yourself.