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Vacation in violation of Court Order

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ChoosingHope posted 8/1/2014 14:39 PM

I'll try to keep this short. The judge did not give me a formal vacation with the children, but he gave EX 2 short summer vacations. We all think it's an oversight, and we requested to have it amended. (Also requested one other thing: split medical expenses)

SO, now my annual vacation with the children is technically in violation of court order. We've done this trip every year for five years. It's been paid for now since spring. It's all my children talk about. We stay with extended family in a big rental home, and it's our only vacation all year.

EX says it interferes with his time.

I asked him to please suggest make-up time, and wrote how important the trip is for the kids, etc.

HE said no.

I guess he has two chances to hurt me now. He has until next Tuesday to file an answer to my Motion to add a vacation to the Court Order. It will be a doozy, I'm sure. He's been sending crazy emails to me for a week, trying to "gather evidence" about me "breaking the law" by not yet canceling my trip.

And then my attorneys says the he could file a Motion to hold me in contempt of the Order for taking the vacation. He could take me back to court! (He's an attorney who represents himself, so it's free.)

Even better, he will probably do this after WE file a motion to collect his very first month of CC and SS, which he ALREADY didn't pay in full. So I'll file a motion; he'll file a motion.

Like really, those are two equally criminal acts: taking a previously planned vacation and not paying your first month of support!!!!!

I just want to cry. I'm so tired of all of this, and I thought it would be better after the D was finalized. HE always always "has something" on me - usually something made up - but this is real. My vacation is really not allowed, at least right now.

My kids will be heart broken, and so will my father who has supported me this entire divorce, and who rented the house so that the entire family could be together.

What would you guys do? Any advice?? Sorry so long.

[This message edited by ChoosingHope at 2:41 PM, August 1st (Friday)]

deena posted 8/1/2014 15:23 PM

What does your lawyer say he could he do to you if you just went on vacation with the kids?
Is it a fine? And would the amount be worth it to just accept the fine?
Would a judge maybe turn it around in your favour if you fought it when you get back.

It is the kids who will suffer here if you don't go. Is he so fricking cruel he would rather see his own kids hurt over trying to hurt you?

I see how damaging it would be if you go. Then decide if it would be worth it to accept the damages and keep the kids happy, but I would check with the lawyer to makes sure what could happen

7yrsflushed posted 8/1/2014 15:29 PM

No advice. Sorry you are going through this. I will say I hope your XWH realizes all he is doing is alienating his kids. Since he is a lawyer that likes to file motions, at some point in the future he will have the pleasure of hearing his kids tell a judge just how much of an ass he is and why they CHOOSE NOT to spend any time with him.

Hope everything works out ChoosingHope.

Tearsoflove posted 8/1/2014 15:47 PM

He would take the vacation anyway and then get a slap on the wrist after the fact.

What is the worst that will happen if you go? I'd hash that out with your lawyer and then decide whether or not they are consequences you can live with. If not, cancel the vacation. If so, take the vacation.

Ashland13 posted 8/1/2014 17:55 PM

I'm sorry.

Perv pulled this on me, too. He has absolutely zero care for repricussions from a judge and even will say, "go tell 'im."

What is soooo hard to fathom (I'm going on 2.5 years) is that this stuff ruins about every single aspect of a life that I can think of. I can honestly think of not one thing touched by what he did to us and I'm sorry that even a happy occassion that you work so hard for is marred by this.

I've had trips and worse ruined by the man who ruined my life.

So the advice I give nowadays is very unlike the me of my previous life, who used to care about every little thing...what finally worked for me is to stop caring. Literally.

ETA And then care about new things, totally different things that have zero to do with the person you/we were married to. You see, some of the process seems to be if the x has resentment, these are ways that they can process it and still hurt us even though we aren't with them anymore. This is what fuels Perv, years of doing "what she wanted" and ignoring what I actually wanted.

If you can manage this, it may surprise you how lighter things become, though the hurt will still be present for a long while, as they prescribe to us all.

You see, when I finally gave in and stopped caring about anything to do with my 'other life', it helped...eons. Tons. It changed me in who I am 'now', a single mom left with two kids, one an infant he didn't want and now claims all success for in 2 days a month visits. Sorry, I veer off sometimes.

I know from your post you've had this trip a long time but what helped us here is to start all new. Very little at a time, making every problem an adventure.

Sorry for the long post and you may have trouble with the idea, but I honestly can't tell you enough how different things are when you start new. And children can be helped into alterative thinking when we make life's problems into adventure, like coming off this week without power for three days and three nights.

I'm sorry. It sucks.

[This message edited by Ashland13 at 5:58 PM, August 1st (Friday)]

tesla posted 8/1/2014 18:57 PM

Motions of contempt take for-fucking-ever.

I filed a motion for contempt regarding ex-shat not paying me my half of our 2012 tax return...a year ago. I still have not seen a dime and the legal system grinds slowly on.
Meanwhile, he has had the enjoyment and benefit of my half of that refund. He's also had the enjoyment and benefit of several thousand dollars of back CS that he owes Teslet (and that I've filed a motion of contempt of 8 months ago).

So here's my point:
Go.
Go on your vacation and have the enjoyment and benefit of this experience with your children.
Let him file his contempt...you take forever to answer it...he has to compel you...you finally get around to it...and you argue that you weren't in contempt because of all the fabulous reasons that you wrote about.

Even *if* you are found in contempt, you are not going to lose custody of your children. And you and your children will still have the wonderful memories of that trip.

Sometimes, I think it is beneficial for us to take a page out of the WS "How to be a dick in regards to court proceedings" handbook.

[This message edited by tesla at 6:59 PM, August 1st (Friday)]

Nature_Girl posted 8/1/2014 19:24 PM

I think you should still go on the vacation. You have proof you've tried to work with him to accommodate him so he doesn't miss a single day. He just wants to be a dick. The judge totally saw through his idiocy at trial. The judge will see through this, too.

I do think he'll try some assholery, though, when it's his time for vacation. Like, he'll not let the kids talk to you for the whole time, or he'll leave the country & not tell you. I think he'll do this no matter if you go on your planned vacation or not.

Kajem posted 8/1/2014 19:37 PM

Fact: your XH has known about this trip since you planned it. ( please have proof that he was notified of the trip)

The judges assigned parenting time came AFTER the trip was scheduled. You've offered your XH time that he will loose while the kids are on vacation. Please have proof of this also his response.

You've asked for clarification from the court. It might not arrive in time to make a difference.

Would he pick up the kids ( normally) for his parenting time?

Is he current on CS ?

You are being reasonable, he is not!

He can pay for the kids to visit him and return to you! Propose that idea to him? Let him know you are not giving up YOUR vacation, and since he is sooo hot to follow the judgement to the letter he won't mind coughing up the airfare in order to see his children.

I would seriously send him an email saying ok they are yours for the weekend, here are the flights that keep the decree. I expect them back on mm/dd/2014 flight xxx and I'll meet them at the airport. Let me know which airline you've booked for the kids to return to our vacation.

Then let it go, but wait for the explosion to come.

YOU can take them on your time AND let him take them on his time (at his cost) and return them to you.

Hugs,
K

hummingbird8 posted 8/1/2014 19:46 PM

Would you give ex extra time if he wanted to take the kids on your time? How would you react if he didn't bring them home when he was supposed to?

I don't condone doing to others what you wouldn't want done to you, even if they have wronged us.

So I would explain to the kids about the vacation this year, and stop arguing with ex. Then get the decree changed for the future.

gonnabe2016 posted 8/1/2014 19:59 PM

Sometimes, I think it is beneficial for us to take a page out of the WS "How to be a dick in regards to court proceedings" handbook.

I agree with Tes.
Take your vacation.
Let him file his motion.
By the time it gets to court, the vacation will be a distant memory and you will have had your annual vaca with the kids.
Go into court with all of the info about how the trip had been scheduled since *forever*....and just zip your lip, let your L do his/her L thing, and let the chips fall where they may.

Honestly, sometimes the *litigious* one just needs a big fat "*fuck you*, <whatever>--take me to court" message.

HE always always "has something" on me - usually something made up

Amen. ^^^This is *my* life right now.....

homewrecked2011 posted 8/1/2014 20:03 PM

Kajem is right.

Go!

The minute you leave the city, forget about him!

It's you, the kids, your Dad and just for a week believe that WS is dead - in mexico- anywhere...

You already had the trip planned.

If you get called into court for the contempt charge, you have a first hearing called a rule to show cause. You have to appear to that first, and show the judge the trip was already planned for and paid for. IF you are in contempt -- in our city its a 1500 fine. You can make payment arrangements on it...

Got the picture? Just go. He won't know until it's pickup time,, then text him,,,"Remember we are with my Dad on our annual vacation, be home xyz date". AND LET HIM FUME!!!! You don't have to listen to it,,, you go right back on with your family..

You and I have tried so hard to play nice,, that it's time to stop trying to keep the peace.

Let him have an angry outburst,, you won't be there to see it....

Amazonia posted 8/1/2014 22:03 PM

Is this a fly-across-the-country vacation or a drive-to-the-coast vacation? Is it remotely possible to go but come back for his visitation? It's just one evening, correct?

badd posted 8/1/2014 22:58 PM

if you offer him the right to fly them home, be prepared for him to fly HIMSELF to your vacation spot and invade it...just sayin' I agree with the others you are NOT taking them without notice and have been very reasonable. GO have fun let the judge decide if you need to pay a fine or not but GO you BOTH should have vacation time! enjoy your babies and your family time. also is ther a clause discussing swapping time? Usually that says such permission shall not be unreasonably with held...if you have that clause, counter sue just a thought because this is surely "unreasonably witholding"

BtraydWife posted 8/1/2014 23:01 PM

Have a great time with your kids on vacation.

ChoosingHope posted 8/1/2014 23:08 PM

Sorry, double post!
-Hope

[This message edited by ChoosingHope at 11:12 PM, August 1st (Friday)]

ChoosingHope posted 8/1/2014 23:11 PM

Hi everyone,
Thank you. As of now, I'm going. Ama, it's an airplane trip across the country.

The attorney said there's nothing in the Order that says I can't go. However, I would be in contempt of the order, technically, because I'm taking his time: one evening and one weekend. They believe that even though I've offered him makeup time and given him options, they anticipate that he will file a motion "alleging this violation. How the judge will handle it in light of your offers of makeup time we cannot predict."

I am not crazy about this answer. I will email them tomorrow AGAIN and ask about what it really means in practical terms. A "we cannot predict" answer doesn't help much. I would like to know the worst thing that the judge can do to me - and the second worst thing, etc.!

I also need to confirm that I will get the same judge as my trial. As I've posted here before, he saw right through Genius. In fact, he yelled for a long time at Genius at the end of my trial, telling him "I don't believe anything you say. You would lie about anything." In our Divorce Order, he wrote that Genius lied throughout the trail without remorse or any apparent consciousness of guilt. He also wrote that I have tried to accommodate Genius every year for this trip, offering make-up time, etc., while Genius has been unaccommodating and obstructionist.

And lastly, I guess I need to ask how the process works here where I live. If it takes as long as you say, Tesla, I am doubly willing to risk it. Really, only God knows how much Genius will fuck up in the next several months. So far, he's had two weekends with the kids. He declined to take the first one. He forced my children to spend half of the second one with SA OW, against their wishes. He's had three weekday overnights, one of which he's had to reschedule.

Okay. You've all helped me so much. I know what I need to ask the attorneys. And I think I've made my decision.

It is the kids who will suffer here if you don't go. Is he so fricking cruel he would rather see his own kids hurt over trying to hurt you?

This really struck home. Not because he's so cruel. But because I keep thinking he's NOT so cruel!!!! It strikes home because I believe he will give in at the end so his kids can have an annual vacation (free to him) in paradise. But he won't. He doesn't care. I keep forgetting he's a sociopath. And not only that, but he knows I won't tell the children why they can't go - because I don't want to hurt my children further.

We are locked into this dance, and I don't know how to break it without hurting my kids. But for now, I just need to solve this immediate problem.

deena posted 8/2/2014 00:03 AM

(((((((((ChoosingHope))))))))))

Have a great trip. Enjoy every moment of it

homewrecked2011 posted 8/2/2014 03:47 AM

If this helps you any,,,,


When my H and I were separated, he had the kids around OW in violation of the restraining order.

I asked my atty about a contempt hearing. He said the most we would get would be a $1,000 fine and maybe community service. He simply sent a letter to WS atty stating what happened and it needed to be stopped....

The only hold our WS have on us is to keep threatening to take us to court. It is a game they play. They believe they are the puppetter and we are the puppet. But this isn't the reality I choose to live. I try to lay very low, and stay out of the circus. It is work, but it is so worth it. I have decided until I am called to court, I will block them out of my mind, emotions, life. I pretend I have never met XWH.

Please go and have a great time. Let go of the results with regard to your X. You are a strong woman and he is a maggot on the floor. Ignore him and enjoy your life!

When/if I am called to court, then I will simply tell the truth. - in your case the trip was already planned.

Compartmented posted 8/2/2014 06:48 AM

I also need to confirm that I will get the same judge as my trial. As I've posted here before, he saw right through Genius. In fact, he yelled for a long time at Genius at the end of my trial, telling him "I don't believe anything you say. You would lie about anything." In our Divorce Order, he wrote that Genius lied throughout the trail without remorse or any apparent consciousness of guilt.
If you don't get the same judge, can your lawyers use what that judge wrote, in their arguments? If you can, get a transcript of what the judge said in court, as well.
He also wrote that I have tried to accommodate Genius every year for this trip, offering make-up time, etc., while Genius has been unaccommodating and obstructionist.
This makes me happy - the trip has already been brought up in court and cast in this light!!!

It is the kids who will suffer here if you don't go. Is he so fricking cruel he would rather see his own kids hurt over trying to hurt you?

This really struck home. Not because he's so cruel. But because I keep thinking he's NOT so cruel!!!! It strikes home because I believe he will give in at the end so his kids can have an annual vacation (free to him) in paradise. But he won't. He doesn't care. I keep forgetting he's a sociopath.

I believe my X would allow his children to be hurt in order to hurt me, yes. His actions show me that over and over. Hope, at some point I began to see how abusive my X was to everyone, not just me. As it became clear he was abusive to my children, I was able to let go of any hope that he'd ever do the right or kind thing. When this happened, I wanted to control the outcome for them (ever the co-dependent one!). I wanted them to know the truth so they could protect themselves. I transitioned from trying to keep the knowledge of how monstrous he was (so they wouldn't be hurt knowing what their father was) to trying to teach them to protect themselves from him. Somewhere in the middle of this I began to let his truth alone. I didn't shine a spotlight on it, but I do speak up for myself and truth. I was hiding how awful he was for years, and so...they basically don't know. He still messes with them, and they don't have the knowledge and skills I wish they did! It's a shit sandwich....
And not only that, but he knows I won't tell the children why they can't go - because I don't want to hurt my children further.
I think at some point, maybe when they are much older, I dunno, you are going to have to tell the truth. What if he is able to stop the vacation now, through the courts? If he does, and your children are not allowed to go, the truth is, he stopped it. I don't think you should keep that secret. My X sets up situations, predicts my reaction, and has a story all set with the children to "explain" the reaction he caused. It's a game to him, and I don't play. Mine would say something to the children like he couldn't believe I would cancel the trip on them, how irresponsible or mean I was. His campaign to turn the children away from me was huge.

Part of the power my X had over me was that he knew I'd keep his secrets. When I stopped? The power shifted a bit.

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