Cheating Hurt by Infidelity
Betrayal Wayward Donations lying
Welcome

Forums

Guidelines

Find a Local Counselor

The Healing Library

Media

Contact Us
lies
cover
In Association with Amazon.com
Support
Infidelity -
-

SurvivingInfidelity.com Forum Archives

like us on facebook
You are not logged in. Login here or register.
[Register]
Newest Member: Remember (46025)

User Topic: Giving up citizenship?
cdnmommy
♀ 30182
Member # 30182
Default  Posted: 11:30 PM, August 5th (Tuesday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I don't know how to condense this, but I'll do my best.

I was born in the United States to Canadian parents as my dad was finishing up his studies and my mom was too pregnant to travel. I came to Canada when I was 8 days old. I have never lived in the U.S. or earned any income there. However, I still have citizenship. I am also a Canadian citizen.

A few years ago I learned that I was obligated to file income tax returns in the United States. So, I got caught up on 6 years' worth of returns and have filed diligently every year since. It is a major PITA. The forms are far more complicated than what I am used to (and I have been doing our taxes and H's business tax for years) and it takes me a long, long time to complete. This year I had to submit no less than 13 forms, plus what I had to do online, just to prove that I don't owe anything to the IRS. In fact, I have never owed anything, as I reside exclusively in Canada and pay plenty of income tax here. Today I received a notice from the IRS claiming I owe them almost $6000 from last year. I am positive it is an error, although I haven't yet figured out if it is mine or theirs, and they didn't explain in the notice how they calculated the tax owing. I will get it straightened out, but not before spending time and effort to do so before we leave on vacation.

The past couple of years I have been contemplating whether it is time to give up my U.S. citizenship. I had maintained it thinking at some point I might want the option of living there, but I think that is very unlikely now. I can't imagine living anywhere else. Plus, I know very little about things like estate tax, and worry about whether that would come into play if anything happened to me.

Frankly, I have always been proud of my ties to the U.S., however brief, but every year it is a struggle to complete all of the documentation, and it is incredibly frustrating and time consuming.

Does anyone have any experience with a scenario like this? Are there any concerns about renouncing citizenship? From what I've read, it can't affect my ability to vacation in the U.S., and since I am completely up to date on my tax filings, I am pretty sure there are no issues that way. I just don't know if there are any risks to doing this. I keep hearing that tax laws might change, but so far that hasn't happened.


Me: BW
DDay: Oct 2010 + 6 weeks false R
2.5 (+?) year A with married coworker/my "friend"
1 great kid.
Reconciling and healing

Posts: 1787 | Registered: Nov 2010
suckstobeme
♀ 30853
Member # 30853
Default  Posted: 1:40 AM, August 6th (Wednesday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I have experience with this. I can tell you that it is considered a ground of inadmissibility if you renounce your citizenship for tax purposes. That means that you would not be able to even visit the U.S as a Canadian citizen if you are found in admissible for this reason.

I can't tell you what to do but I would suggest speaking to a cross border accountant and an immigration lawyer. You need to be well aware of the harsh and permanent consequences of giving up citizenship if that's what you ultimately choose to do.


BW - me
ExWH - "that one"
D - 2011
You get what you put in, and people get what they deserve.
Hard as it may be, try to never give the OP any of your power or head space.

Posts: 2907 | Registered: Jan 2011
cdnmommy
♀ 30182
Member # 30182
Default  Posted: 1:54 AM, August 6th (Wednesday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

That means that you would not be able to even visit the U.S as a Canadian citizen if you are found in admissible for this reason.

My understanding is that this has never been enforced, even when dealing with people who legitimately gave up their citizenship to avoid large tax bills, though it certainly is one of the concerns I have.
I am not even sure what I would say with regard to my reasons other than just being honest. The simple truth is that while it is unlikely I will ever need to pay a dime in taxes, the cost of keeping compliant in terms of time (or money if I hire someone to do it for me) is just not worth it for potential future benefits of citizenship that I will probably never take advantage of. :(


Me: BW
DDay: Oct 2010 + 6 weeks false R
2.5 (+?) year A with married coworker/my "friend"
1 great kid.
Reconciling and healing

Posts: 1787 | Registered: Nov 2010
Nature_Girl
♀ 32554
Member # 32554
Default  Posted: 3:01 AM, August 6th (Wednesday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

What a huge pain in the ass. I am dumbfounded you need to file a return every year to claim that you essentially don't need to file a return. What a colossal waste of not just your time & effort, what a waste of American time, effort & tax dollars to process your unnecessary return. I had no idea we did that kind of thing.

I don't blame you one bit for thinking of giving up citizenship. Do you get any benefit at all from being a citizen?


Me = BS (Stay-at-home-mom)
Him = EX-d out (abusive troglodyte NPD SA)
3 tween-aged kids
Together 20 years
D-Day: Memorial Weekend 2011
2013 - DIVORCED!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wJgjyDFfJuU

Posts: 10137 | Registered: Jun 2011 | From: USA
cdnmommy
♀ 30182
Member # 30182
Default  Posted: 3:17 AM, August 6th (Wednesday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

what a waste of American time, effort & tax dollars to process your unnecessary return.

Amen to that. My sister's colleague indicated that it is made worse because as difficult as it is for me to figure out what I do and don't need to file, and where certain things need to go (like my foreign exemptions), it is also challenging for the IRS since there are so many flavours of expat. Therefore, they make a lot of errors and, as is probably the case here, send out notices that are actually mistakes. Then even more time is spent while they review my submission to correct their error. It is baffling. I would think that if the intent is to prevent people who legitimately owe taxes from evading them, there would be a simple way to identify those of us who don't fall into that category.

Do you get any benefit at all from being a citizen?

At this point in my life, not really in any way that I can think of. When I was younger and considering different employment options it certainly would have made things easier if I wanted to pursue something in the U.S., but now that I'm a parent I am staying put. I suppose that being able to enter the U.S. at will is a benefit, but given that I'm a law-abiding Canadian who only visits the U.S. once or twice a year for vacation and to spend my money, I don't think they would typically turn me away.


Me: BW
DDay: Oct 2010 + 6 weeks false R
2.5 (+?) year A with married coworker/my "friend"
1 great kid.
Reconciling and healing

Posts: 1787 | Registered: Nov 2010
suckstobeme
♀ 30853
Member # 30853
Default  Posted: 4:39 AM, August 6th (Wednesday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I'm a lawyer and live in a border town. My understanding from trusted colleagues in this field is that the U.S. Is increasingly starting to enforcie this ground of inadmissibility if they make the connection. The number of people renouncing has gone up considerably since the tax laws started being enforced. Since you have to renounce at a consular post, I have no idea if they put your name and passport info into a database to be consulted when you attempt to make an entry. If they make the determination, you won't be allowed in without a special waiver that is expensive and can be difficult to obtain. You don't necessarily have to say you are giving up citizenship for tax reasons for them to make that determination. They look at all the circumstances and if there is no other sensical reason to give it up, they can make the tax conclusion.

I see from your profile that you have a child. Does your child also have dual citizenship? Even if you still want to renounce, I would first determine whether your child could obtain citizenship through you. If so, you may want to wait. Your child having dual citizenship can open up possibilities for college - foreign students have to obtain student status and pay full tuition; citizens have opportunities for financial aid and scholarships.


BW - me
ExWH - "that one"
D - 2011
You get what you put in, and people get what they deserve.
Hard as it may be, try to never give the OP any of your power or head space.

Posts: 2907 | Registered: Jan 2011
cdnmommy
♀ 30182
Member # 30182
Default  Posted: 8:56 AM, August 6th (Wednesday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I am pretty sure my son doesn't qualify for citizenship. His dad is Canadian and from what I have read, the requirement when only one parent is a citizen is for that parent to have resided in the U.S. for a certain number of years as an adult.

Sigh. I have no idea why this has to be so difficult. I will deal with this issue first and then I guess I will have to weigh the options of consulting a lawyer to look into renunciation or hiring someone to start doing my U.S. tax for me each year.


Me: BW
DDay: Oct 2010 + 6 weeks false R
2.5 (+?) year A with married coworker/my "friend"
1 great kid.
Reconciling and healing

Posts: 1787 | Registered: Nov 2010
Amazonia
♀ 32810
Member # 32810
Default  Posted: 11:08 AM, August 6th (Wednesday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Do you live near a US Consulate? Before you hire a lawyer, why not make an appointment to talk with american citizen services at the consulate nearby? They might be able to point you in the right direction at least.


"You yourself deserve your love and affection as much as anybody in the universe." -Buddha
"Let's face it, life is a crap shoot." -Sad in AZ

Posts: 13928 | Registered: Jul 2011
Lucky2HaveMe
♀ 13333
Member # 13333
Default  Posted: 2:35 PM, August 6th (Wednesday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I live in the US and do not have CA citizenship, but I have gotten this type of letter from the IRS twice. Both times it was an easy fix of a mistake.

It should tell you somewhere on that form the reason they believe you owe money. Start there. Once it was simply I had forgotten to file for a Schedule B from investments. Once I filed the correct form, ta-da no more $ was due.

So look closer at that form. There may even be someone here that can help decipher it for you.


Love isn't what you say, it's what you do.

Posts: 6732 | Registered: Jan 2007 | From: WNY
FaithFool
♀ 20150
Member # 20150
Default  Posted: 2:37 PM, August 6th (Wednesday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

My x is American, landed in Canada. We spent a small fortune every year on a specialist to do his taxes. They are extra complicated because he travels the world and makes income wherever he goes, so every penny has to be taxed in the state where he earned it at the per diem going rate for that state.

Nightmare.

If you hold RRSPs ( retirement funds not taxed until you cash out), they'll be coming for capital gains on those as well apparently.


If you own a house with a Canadian, they'll be wanting a piece of your capital gain on a sale even though principal residence is tax exempt in Canada.

I didn't know about the rule regarding giving up citizenship. That's messed up.

Like Hotel California. You can check out any time you want but you can never leave.

[This message edited by FaithFool at 2:40 PM, August 6th (Wednesday)]


DDay: June 15, 2008
Mistakenly married Mr. Superfreak
20 years of OWs, WTF?
Divorced Dec 26, 2011
"Life is a shipwreck, but we must not forget
to sing in the lifeboats". -- Voltaire

Posts: 17787 | Registered: Jul 2008 | From: Canada
Cally60
♀ 23437
Member # 23437
Default  Posted: 9:05 PM, August 6th (Wednesday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I see from your profile that you have a child. Does your child also have dual citizenship? Even if you still want to renounce, I would first determine whether your child could obtain citizenship through you. If so, you may want to wait. Your child having dual citizenship can open up possibilities for college - foreign students have to obtain student status and pay full tuition; citizens have opportunities for financial aid and scholarships.

Might it also make it easier for him to get a green card, should HE ever wish to work in the USA? I'd take the talk of more strictly enforced inadmissibility rules as mere threats, intended as a disincentive to those contemplating it. However, I doubt whether the US ever takes kindly to any citizens renouncing their citizenship. And if I were in your position, I'd be concerned that my having renounced it might adversely affect any future visa, green card, etc. application, on the part of my child, or grandchildren. Given population movement nowadays, and the proximity of Canada to the USA, I'd definitely consider the impact on your child(ren) or grandchildren.

I think dual citizenship of any countries is something well worth having. I'd see the tax hassle as well worth it, just for the benefit of the dual citizenship, free movement, etc.

By the way had anyone told me before I'd ever set foot in the USA, that in five years' time I'd be living there, I wouldn't have believed a word of it!

[This message edited by Cally60 at 9:06 PM, August 6th (Wednesday)]


Posts: 2206 | Registered: Mar 2009
cayc
♀ 21964
Member # 21964
Default  Posted: 10:14 PM, August 6th (Wednesday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

It's harder than you think to renounce US citizenship but it can be done. And then undone if you change your mind later.

In terms of inadmissibility, that's going to come into play if you are someone who travels to the US often, have family there, have ties there. Because then as a "tourist" you aren't really overcoming immigrant intent. And it really comes into play if you are applying for a visa.

Presenting yourself at the border once in a blue moon, as a CN citizen, CBP will likely let you in. Show up every day, and you're back to concerns about immigrant intent etc.



"I'm not afraid of storms, for I'm learning how to sail my ship." - Louisa May Alcott

Posts: 3203 | Registered: Dec 2008 | From: Mexico
Topic Posts: 12

Return to Forum This Topic is Archived
adultry
madness  
© 2002 - 2014 SurvivingInfidelity.com. All Rights Reserved.