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Ok.

Do I have a right to know what the WH talks about in his IC?

Just wondering. I do not trust him.

I do not have much faith in the MC/ either.

WH lied and charmed his way thru two MC's. Cheating the entire time, then hiding secret contact, and pictures with the whore.

Over a year and a half, wasted.

So, he is going tomorrow. I want to send him in with my iPhone and tell him to record it.

He'll fudge his way thru, dodge issues, talk about ANYTHING to waste time, and avoid anything uncomfortable.

S0, is this a 'over the line' request?

thx…. losing my marbles here...

He has a right to privacy. However, in the interest of establishing trust, and if he wants to truly fix your relationship, tell him you want to be invited to a session with his ic in the near future. There you can ascertain if he is telling the truth about his life and yours.
Don't be too concerned about "your side of the story." That is going to be an issue in any relationship, imo. But basic truths about your marriage should be established.
I hear your frustration. I have been there. The process is always too slow for those of us who have been trying to fix a marriage that was damaged because a spouse checked out without telling us. Sadly, there isn't a way to speed this up. Those same spouses take awhile to really defog.

there is a poster here, Sisoon, who required his wife agree to him talking to her IC occasionally, to see if things were being addressed that should be. I think i have that right? Maybe he'll weigh in here.

My husband is going to see my IC today. She wants to get his angle on things. I asked to see his IC. I want to ask her one question that I think she can answer without betraying his confidence. So, I'll let ya know on that one. I think in some instances, it can be good.

I recall a WS who provided the IC in writing a statement that everything should be shared with BS and apparently it was actually being done.

You don't have a legal right, I don't think, even if you're paying for it. But you can control what you are willing to accept and not accept, for example, if you want him to share what goes on and he won't you can react to that however you want, you can give him the old heave-ho.

Based only on what you posted here, I'm a little surprised you didn't dump him already.

Legally and ethically, an IC cannot disclose to anyone else what a client says in confidence. My WH and I got around this my seeing two different Cs in the same larger practice. We both signed disclosure agreements, giving the ICs permission to occasionally consult with each other. Knowing the other IC can check up on us keeps us both truthful and grounded in reality.

I think the most important part of IC is to address those things which led to this nightmare.

I think that knowing what you say is private in IC will lead to more honesty. Honesty will lead to recovery.

We see the same counselor but don't go together. We've been seeing the same counselor for years. Yes Bh lied to counselor for 10 years.

I would never consent to recording my sessions and I'm not even a cheater. All counseling is about intimacy and feeling comfortable, vulnerable etc. You can't make your bs tell the truth but you can decide what you'll live with and what you won't. Ws have emotional intimacy problems by definition. I think forcing him to report on everything will not achieve your desired result. I think it's reasonable to see the counselor a few times yourself to lay the background. Would you go to this ic yourself? Our situation is spendy bc it's 2x per week but it works for us. Rarely do I spend time talking about my wh....work on myself . If there's something I need to tell him, I do (see my post about googling former ap) .

If your ws us going to cheat and lie to the ic there isn't much you can do about it. My ic (his ic too) said I could put a private eye on him 24/7 and still not know if he has cheated.

Also, we picked a mc who is committed to marriage. He said only I could make the decision to d or not but he will always help us to make it work, as long as I want. Separate if necessary, but r is the goal.

But I get the sentiment completely. This is so hard.

In the states I know about, IC sessions are basically confidential. A client can, however, sign releases that allow the IC to share what goes on in sessions with people/organizations of the client's choice.

My W had been in IC before she started her A, but she lied to her IC as well as to me. I insisted she sign a release allowing her IC to talk to me if I requested it. The release also directed her IC to call me if my W rescinded the release or revealed another A (that was her IC's suggestion).

W's IC became our MC, so the release also allows our C to bring anything from an IC session to an MC session.

The release provides a lot of protection against more lies from my W, since the C can confront my W if she says one thing in IC and another in MC.

(If we weren't in MC with W's IC, I'd meet with her IC periodically to make sure the IC was aware of any issues or disconnects between what W told me vs. what she told her IC.)

Your H's IC owes a duty to your H, not to you or your M. I firmly believe the BS needs some visibility into the WS's IC, especially WRT the WS's goals and progress. After all, the WS can tell you he wants R while using IC to prepare to separate. Worse, your WS can lie to his IC, never mentioning his A, for example.

Without a release, the C cannot legally or ethically tell you that your WS is lying, even if the C knows about the lies. With a release the C can tell you, if you ask or if the release tells the C to call you under specific conditions.

BS visibility into the WS's IC is obviously something I feel very strongly about. The visibility I recommend is at a high level though - again, goals and progress and basic information about M issues. A lot of the content of the WS's IC probably should be kept private, because it's a work in progress about doubts.

I know a lot of my W's IC is about her self-doubt about her worth as a human being, fear that she can't fix herself, etc. Really, that stuff depresses me, and it doesn't help heal either me or our M.

What does help is knowing she tells both me and our C that she's committed to R and knowing that the changes I see outside MC are related to things she's trying to change via IC.

If your WS isn't willing to sign a release allowing her IC to share at least very basic info with you, she's still essentially lying to you, not fully committed to R, IMO, and therefore not a good candidate for R.

[This message edited by sisoon at 10:25 AM, August 8th (Friday)]

I will add that my wh c

I will add that my wh confessed to our ic that his disclosure was a lie. He told me one of his affairs was a one night stand but it was actually over /2 years. The agreement was my wh would tell me soon. I think he waited 2 months but did tell me. The mc said he would not tell me himself but expectation was always that my Wh would.

And if my wh were to keep having affairs then our mc says he could not help him until he agreed to end them.

I invited my BS to my IC sessions. My IC who was also our MC, agreed to it. I had/have nothing to hide from my BS. I do not see an issue with it. I see it as a trust builder.

just one WS opinion.

no kidding, DrJekyll. My IC can tell my husband anything about me. I really have no need for privacy. Plus, really? Another person to have secrets with? No secrets from hubby anymore.

I just mentioned this to someone else and they said it would be highly unethical...

I think it is over the line, but not for the reasons asked.

You cannot will your WS into wanting to be truthful. You cannot will him to want to fix himself. if the only way he's going to be truthful is because your'e holding a recorder over him... then no, he wont' get anything out of it.

Is he in IC because you asked him to?

You can't bludgeon, threaten, or will someone into looking in the mirror and facing their choices and actions.

If he has to be made to be truthful in IC, then he doesn't need ot be there and hasn't hit his point where he wants to change.

Personally, I'd 180 and tell him I'd (maybe) be interested in talking when he was done with the lies.

My husband shares what they've talked about in IC, that's his choice. I share what I've talked about in IC, that's my choice. That's our efforts to open communication and no more secrets. I'd be fine with my husband coming to an IC, and maybe he'd be ok with me going to his. But if I can't trust my husband to be honest and need a recording or transcript or notes form his IC... I'm not interested in that kind of relationship. I don't want to be a parent to my spouse.