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FUBAR858 posted 8/10/2014 10:04 AM

So this is a gripe session - everyone feel free to comment, just read, 2x4 or support
So my love language is physical - shocking I know lol, just a typical guy. But here's the thing, I need to feel wanted by WW, she wanted another man, how come not me. The last two mornings our DD has been at my parents. The first morning was great. We went out to have breakfast and just talked. It was very nice just having time together cause our time is limited due to my work. This morning, had coffee and that was about it before getting DD. We both needed to get ready so I suggested taking a shower together which was shot down. I told her I was a bit disappointed that here we are with an opportunity cause DD wasn't there and nothing happens. She claims that she's trying to get better about being spontaneous and adventitious but sometimes I just don't see it. This might be TMI but whatever, majority of the time it's done in the shower or tub and almost always when I initiate it. We have a whole house damnit! Lol. My buddy ask about buying lingerie, I told him she had a whole box full but mainly wears it after I buy it and then stays in the box. He asked about her sending NSFW or just sexy pics and I told him that I always need to initiate that too. There are several other things too but maybe in another post.
Back to the main reason for the post. Am I the only one to see the opportunity here? Why can't/ won't she seize the moments? I thought it it was great to seize the moment the first morning and spend time together but she also knows how I feel and what I'd like. I'm tired of trying to make her see what she's not doing. I'm getting to the point to never expecting anything so that way I can't get disappointed. -end gripe session-

Pass posted 8/10/2014 10:39 AM

I don't know your situation, but will tell you about mine, in case you can read something from the similarities.

The Princess also never initiated anything. Never. And not just sex: Hugs, kisses, hand-holding, I-love-yous, smiles, anything! One time I got pissed off and decided not to initiate sex again. After eight months without, I finally initiated. Then, of course, I was disgusted with myself for being so weak, and went for another four months or so without initiating. So, yep, we had sex twice that year.

Another time, I decided to talk to her about it. I told her that I understand that every time I initiate sex, she wouldn't be in the mood, and I might get shot down. I told her I was okay with that, but since I was the only one who ever initiated, I was also the only one who was ever rejected, and that felt shitty. I thought that might turn on the light bulb for her. Nope.

Now that I know she is a NPD who non-stop emotionally abused me, it all makes sense. That was how she felt attractive and powerful: She kept me "begging" for love, affection, sex, and plain old pleasantness.

saturnpatrick posted 8/10/2014 10:40 AM

That's not a gripe. That is totally valid. Sex is an incredibly important part of a relationship and nothing says "You're the one I want and you're the one I'm in love with" quite like a roll in the hay with your spouse.

My wife and I are working through the same thing.

About a year ago, like you, my wife often said she was working on it. But I didn't really believe her. It got really bad. Sex is a huge need for me, and the fact that she wanted/desired OM and not me is a major blast to my self esteem. If she had cancer or something I would understand. But in the absence of any medical issue, what the hell stops a person from having sex with their spouse? What kind of loser am I, especially since OM got that kind of attention. How the hell do I not make that about me?

I don't think she really understood how this affected me. But for me, it was slowly killing what was left of our M. I finally decided that this is not the married life I had hoped for (and what she had promised we would have). I told her that if we couldn't figure this out, I didn't see myself staying in the M. I said it might be a year, maybe two, but this would not last.

She accused me of giving up. I said yes, I'm giving up.

Well, that changed things. Holy affection fest. Not just sex but hugs and kisses and back rubs and everything.

Maybe your wife doesn't get the seriousness of the situation? Do you see yourself being happy in this M? Because if a physical relationship is important to you (and you are not a bad person if it is), and it doesn't improve with the effort she is currently putting forth (and yes, one of the shockers for my FWW was when MC called this out as her problem and not mine), then it is time for you to move on and seek a marriage that is physical and better suits you.

FUBAR858 posted 8/10/2014 11:11 AM

Thank you for the responses. You're right, I feel shitty cause she did things she said she'd never do (having nooners). When we were first together it was amazing! All the time, trying new things and very spontaneous. I understand that when we get older things will die down a bit but not like this. I'm only 31 and feel like we should still be a bit crazy. Sometimes she gets her period more than we have sex. Lol. The last time we had sex a lot was when we were trying to get pregnant - 5 years ago. I just miss the spontaneous, the feeling young but most importantly, the feeling wanted! I work a job where I can have my phone with me due to security reasons. I would love having something on it when I turn it on from her that showing that she was thinking about me other than just I love you and hope you day a safe night. I got tired of asking for it.

FUBAR858 posted 8/10/2014 11:31 AM

Sorry meant to write *can't have my phone with me

FUBAR858 posted 8/10/2014 11:38 AM

I know this my sound shitty but its crossed my mind a few times, why can't I go off and get what I want/ need? That's what she did. I know I'll never actually act on it but it just something that's come up. Am I wrong for having those thoughts? I'm not looking for sex all the time but just want that wanted feeling without having to ask for it. Almost like she doesn't want me and is just putting up with it

saturnpatrick posted 8/10/2014 11:44 AM

I'm not looking for sex all the time but just want that wanted feeling without having to ask for it. Almost like she doesn't want me and is just putting up with it

This is an absolutely valid reason for D. You just are not getting your needs met.

But it is still not a valid reason for an A. There is no such thing as a valid reason for an A.

FoggedIn posted 8/10/2014 12:44 PM

This is not awesome!! It's like double rejection (triple, quadruple.... Whatever!)
She should be seeking you out & on the regular! Especially since she's aware that's what you want & need. Sounds to me like it's part of a health R step for you.
Her inability to follow through with initiating or even accepting your advances doesn't sound like she's as fully invested in R or the M.

Pre A, WH rejected me on the regular, I came to him often & expressed my needs. I'm younger than him & may have sexual desires that exceed his, however he knew what he was getting into when he married me. And sex every 6 weeks at best is not ok, I don't care how old you are, certainly not for someone in their 30's, who WANTS to be intimate with their SO.

Post A, he said it terrifies & 'triggers' him to have sex with me because often I have an emotional response. Which is accurate. However the emotional response is never anger or hatred, usually pain & disappointment expressed in a few tears that I handle the best I know how. I always assure him that I want to be there with him in that moment & work through the fear & pain. However he's said he avoids sex to avoid that reaction.
At the moment (since May) sex is not an option. I finally got wise enough to stop putting my health at risk until he could put his pride & ego aside to go get tested for std's. He put it off until 6 days ago & finally went. No results yet.

However if I made/make advances at him, although I'm not sure I'm at a place where I can, even if his results are clean, & he blew me off, it would be a game changer.

While he was turning me down for sex before DDay, he was taking care of his needs elsewhere. Porn, escorts, chats, etc.

confused615 posted 8/10/2014 12:55 PM

My husband has the same complaint..about me. He wants more sex..and Im usually not in the mood.

What helps, for us, is how much effort he puts into getting me in the mood. It starts in the morning, he may bring me a drink, give me a little kiss...then throughout the day he texts me sweet things..when he comes home, he will help me with the kids, and other such things that may need to be taken care I am not stressed and exhausted by the end of the day.

It may sound silly, but the easier he makes my day, the more relaxed I am, and the more open I am to having sex.

Do you regularly complain about your sex life and your FWW's lack of libido with your buddies?

[This message edited by confused615 at 12:55 PM, August 10th (Sunday)]

Uhtred posted 8/10/2014 16:14 PM

I feel you on this. During my wife's affair we had a huge nasty fight and it was me who initiated it. I was getting angry at the lack of sex and told her that things weren't the same anymore and the rejection was getting to me. She told me she was sorry but that she was doing all she could and felt like we were having enough sex. It wasn't just about not enough sex though it was the constant rejection by her.

Fast forward to DDay and I get a hold of her phone. I see she's been speaking with my best friend about our sex life and telling him that she didn't honestly know what to do other than throw me out for a while. This is "friend" was flirting with my wife all the time and they had an inappropriate relationship. No sex but talking about it. She claims that at the time she didn't think her having an affair with another man was to blame for the way things were. It was all me of course and poor little her was trying to do everything she could.

Not only was she talking to my best friend she was carrying on a sexting relationship with a guy that we went to school with and a sexual relationship with a man twice her age. No wonder she was "spent". She blamed all her being "tired" because she was a stay at home mom with our kids even though one was in school and the other went to Mother's Day two days a week. This gave her the chance to go and let off some steam by having sex, talking about sex, or just in general flirting with any man that would give her attention. I saw a text between her and the physical AP with him telling her to keep her legs crossed and she replied "don't worry baby I will, you're the only on I want anyway".

I think your feelings are justified about wanting to have sex with another woman. Just don't act on it if you are still married to her. Keep the moral high ground.

sisoon posted 8/10/2014 18:18 PM

I suspect all men want to be desired by the woman they love. I know I sure do, and I sure didn't want to stay M to my W unless she wanted me.

I suggest making it a requirement for R that your W initiate sex sometimes. That worked for us, and my W hadn't initiated for years before the A.

tushnurse posted 8/10/2014 18:36 PM

If she isn't doing her work in R then this just goes hand in hand with that. However if she is and she still isn't wanting to be intimate then there are issues to iron out.
Have you tried discussing it when you aren't wanting to have sex right then? Is she resistant to even discussing it? What are her reasons for not being interested?
If this is just being exhausted from working full time and having little ones and trying to do it all then I get it. I used to tell H the biggest turn on was him cleaning and Making dinner.
If it is something she can't explain then please consider sex therapy. A M without a healthy sex life is not a healthy M.

WhatsRight posted 8/10/2014 19:10 PM

In response to the question

"Who would not want to have sex with their own spouse?"

Me. Not only did my husband participate in something that was morally repugnant to me but he has never been willing to be fully accountable and remorseful for it. The thought of sex at this point is disgusting to me. I believe that he is equally uninterested.

I agree that a marriage without a healthy sex life is not a healthy marriage. But I do know from experience that there are things that can negate any desire for sex even with a spouse that you love.

Echelon61 posted 8/10/2014 20:58 PM

My wife shut down on me physically as well during the last two years that we were living together & I've never gotten an honest answer out of her as to why.
Even more than that, during the two years now that we've been separated, she's occasionally dropped ideas like the two of us arranging "sex dates", the idea that reconciliation isn't far away should I desire it & other similar things just to keep my thoughts, emotions, desires pointed in her direction... which, have led to absolutely nothing.
The last time that the two of us had sex was in October of 2010. Since that time, she's had at least three relationships that I know of. Two while we were still together & then she spent from November of 2012 until April of this year actually living with another guy.
Me? Nothing.
I've wasted almost four full years worrying about what she's been up to, while I've been celibate waiting around for her. Insane, right?
Don't I know it.
But, when you have someone totally playing with your heart & your head, time F**king flies my friend. And, if you're not careful it gets away from you & then, you find yourself having completely wasted the equivalent of a full Presidential term or the period between the summer Olympics.
And, even as much as it's been the ruination of my self esteem, if I step back & take an impersonal look at myself & the other men that she's cheated on me with & had relationships with during our separations ( oh yeah, this is my second trip to this rodeo! ), they're not better looking than me, they're not more caring than me & they're certainly not more intelligent than me ( And yes, just so it doesn't seem as if I'm being the least bit egotistical here, I've had others, whose opinions I trust, confirm these things including members of her own family ) & yet she STILL chooses them over me.
Who knows why?
I doubt whether even she has a solid reason why, because, honestly, they've been a pretty sorry lot for the most part.
If I run down the list of men that she's had inappropriate relationships/affairs/dated during our separations they've been a next door neighbor with a plethora of missing teeth, Two men twenty years older than her, another one thirty years older than her, two guys that were/are fairly intellectually challenged, two former crack heads & a guy that she met in the psych ward ( no, I'm not denigrating those with psychological issues either because I'm bipolar myself, but this guy suffered from both a VERY borderline personality disorder & was schizophrenic as well ). And not a one of them was even a moderately handsome man by all accounts.
Now who knows? Maybe they were all hung like horses , but I doubt it.
In fact, in my wife's version of the truth, she only ever slept with ONE of them & that was during our initial separation. I have evidence that clearly states otherwise in her own handwriting, but that's another story I suppose...
The point being that sometimes there aren't any answers forthcoming. sometimes whatever REALLY drives a cheating spouse to do what they do is such a well guarded secret that they'll very likely never admit to it. Some of them, not even to themselves.
- Jim

Brandon808 posted 8/10/2014 22:38 PM

You need to ask yourself if you can be ok with this permanently? Why do I say this? Because you cannot control her behavior. You've asked and asked and she doesn't seem to be even humoring you much less taking your concerns seriously. If this is important to you then should be prepared to commit to it. Fix this or end the M. If she truly values the M she should listen. Who knows, maybe seeing how seriously you take it will shock her.

Another point, which I hate to suggest. Have you considered that she may be cheating again? My xwgfs and xww all got to the point where nothing happened unless I initiated it. At some point I stopped initiating because it hurt to feel so passive-aggressively rejected. In retrospect I know they were actively unfaithful. What I suggest is obviously biased by my own experience but I've seen the pattern repeated for many others on SI.

Ostrich80 posted 8/11/2014 00:23 AM

Another point, which I hate to suggest. Have you considered that she may be cheating again?

Ok I didn't want to be the one to say it but....
Being on the opposite end of this subject, I all but threw myself at ws only to face rejection. He would talk it up but then when it cane time to go to bed, it was like he had fucking narcolepsy.Within 5 minutes of me getting out of the shower and a trip to the kitchen for a drink of water, he would be sawing logs. I know he wasn't really asleep. For the first time in our m, I was no longer sleeping in my littke nook next to him, nope I was looking at his back because he FACED THE WALL...WTF??
He was balls deep in ow, that's what the issue was.
I hope that's not the case here but it sure stirs up some old feelings reading your post.

mike7 posted 8/11/2014 00:46 AM


I saw a text between her and the physical AP with him telling her to keep her legs crossed and she replied "don't worry baby I will, you're the only one I want anyway".

uhtred, Man, that is just brutal. I'm impressed with your strength. i'm sorry my friend.

end t/j

fwiw - i've told my wife that if she ever turns me down, even one more time, we're done. i'm just really tired of it.

[This message edited by mike7 at 7:28 AM, August 11th (Monday)]

blakesteele posted 8/11/2014 02:31 AM

But here's the thing, I need to feel wanted by WW, she wanted another man, how come not me.

Check up this assumption. Did she want another man or did she want to escape and avoid?

2 years and $11k worth of therapy and it is crystal clear to both of us that the AP could have been anyone. My wife decided to take her pain outside of our marriage and get it medicated by using the drug called "adultery". HE was just a man that said "yes" to her advances. Period. End of story. That took my wife over a year to express and own for herself. HE found another woman within 2 months of dumping my wife.

Adultery, like all other sin, is at the heart of it...selfish in nature. It really is just about the single person choosing it. Not sure if you are still jealous or not....I was for 6 months....but if you are, keep this post in your archive and read it in the future. You will come to this same truth. I know its hard to accept...but you are using logic to solve an illogical choice. It will NOT compute.

"Adultery is crazy making shit!"--first therapist.

My wife made up her mind very early on into winking at him that she was going to escape from reality....and it happened very fast after that.

BEFORE that she denied reality. Wasn't authentic with herself, certainly was not with me or any of her friends. She hid within walls, put on very good shows for me and all of her other friends of being content and nice.

How did I not see this while it was going on.

Painful truth?

I did.

But I had my own desire to escape and hide from pain. I enlisted what has since been labled CoD traits and tendencies. I minimized my own needs, my own pain of having a wife withdrawn and just going through the motions of being in a relationship with me, agreeing to have children with me, etc.. Add to my brokenness of having serious abandonment issues and, just like I can plainly see my wifes journey to adultery, I can see my own choices that helped me avoid MY reality in my pre-A M.

You ask why your wife can't seize the moments NOW to interconnect with you? Why she rejects your attempts at this?

Short answer....she is not choosing to. She is avoiding and denying...keeping her distance from you.

Why? Lots of reasons, the least of which has to do with your physcial attractiveness or desireability. Just like her A was not about you, her actions right now are not about you either. They remain about HER. Why???

Maybe still holding onto the fantasy that Mr. AP was "the one"?...would help her feel less pain about her choices, as if HE were in control and responsible for HER choices.

Maybe she just doesn't want to do the work and is choosing to stay at the "relationship level" she was at when she choose to have an A?...would help her feel less pain as she is use to "dealing" with this, set level of pain.

Its scary and unknown?...she is more content to sit with the known pain than to chance taking on new pain.

She likes the devil she knows vs the devil that is awaiting?....she avoids looking deeper into herself because she doesn't want to feel pain that her Dad caused her, or some other relational event in her life.

Her support network supports socieitys view of seeking happiness above all else? Her lack of support network has her stuck in her own mind, trying to find a solution from the source of the problem (which Einstein said is impossible)? Maybe she is using another false intimacy to medicate the pain needed for change (work, kids, hobbies)?

Change only occurs when the pain of same is greater than the pain of change. Otherwise, where is the motivation? So if a wayward continues to find ways to medicate and deny the painful consequences of their change really an option? (for the record, I think it could always happen...I do believe God COULD change the heart of a person...but I also believe that person must ask for it to happen most of the time. I'll let you know what the truth of that is when I pass into heaven....just one of many questions that I have for Him!)

Our current therapist continues to work with me...instructs me to lead my M. I am trying, but it is more so than with regards to sexual intimacy.

I am one man that has trouble initiating sex with my wife now. I am NOT the sex-at-all-cost type of guy. However, I did go through a phase you mentioned that I can relate to.

The "she had her fun, its my turn now!" phase. Weekly IC sessions, a strong Pastor and solid group of marriage friendly RL men helped me get through this. Left to my own accord.....not sure I could have grown through that phase.

I am glad I didn't choose to go have fun.....this shit is tough enough without my own, complete moral failure. KWIM?

Keep posting.

I welcome PM from male SI members....PM anytime.

Keep the faith.

God is with us all.

[This message edited by blakesteele at 2:42 AM, August 11th (Monday)]

still-living posted 8/11/2014 03:39 AM

Short answer....she is not choosing to. She is avoiding and denying...keeping her distance from you.

Why? Lots of reasons, the least of which has to do with your physcial attractiveness or desireability. Just like her A was not about you, her actions right now are not about you either. They remain about HER.

I agree with Blake's statement 100%. To add, my wife didn't enjoy sex emotionally. She didn't enjoy sex with the AP either. She used sex reluctantly as a last resort to string the AP along. Affirmation is what she wanted.

FUBAR858 posted 8/11/2014 07:26 AM

Wow, I go to work and my thread blows up lol. Thanks everyone for your responses and I'll try to answer some of the questions. I don't regularly talk about my sex life with anyone. My one buddy that I do talk to very rarely is someone I've know for 25 years so he's more like a brother. He was very supportive throughout everything. I always have it in the back of my mind that she's cheating again. I hate to say it but this website could give a cheater some ideas to continue - like burner phones, secret accounts and so on. So that always scares me. I will never act on anything with someone else if I'm still with WW. After DDay, I kicked her out for about 9 months. I've told her that I had a few opportunities to have fun with someone else but never did due to still being devoted to her. Ive told her that if I wanted to act on it now, I would first leave her and not put her through what she put me through. I would say shortly after we got married, that's when the sex life started in the downward spiral. After that we've always fought about sex. She thinks that's all I care about and think of. Ive told her numerous times that sex isn't just sex but a connection for me. I guess its the equivalent of words of affirmation. I wouldn't bring it up so many times if she acted on it more. So what do I do, leave it be and she gets what she wants in the relationship and I don't? Or bring it up to make her realize what I need and then we fight over it? Its just a double edged sword.

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