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Another challenge as the BS in R

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Hatemyhusband posted 8/15/2014 09:18 AM

The reason a WS has an A is due to his/her sides and own insecurities. Well H is in IC. We are in MC. I'm in IC. His IC advises him not to bottle things up and start verbalizing concerns. He feels my H suppressing his thoughts and feelings contributed to his "issues" and helped his decision to have A

So now, here I am, the BW. I learn my H has two year A w my friend. A hot heavy texting, talking daily and seeing each other often. A fantasy relationship. He wants to R. His family and I am impt to him. He's so remorseful.
Now, I'm sooooooo lucky 9 months out he's verbaliZing his displeasure w certain things to me. Ex: the shorts u wore yest don't look good. U look much better in those ur wearing today
Ex: he waits to go to gym. He gets home bw 3-4 and he waits until bw 5-7pm to go. It's been an issue bc he would arrange to meet her then. Since A, she doesn't attend the gym but he still goes 5-7. He says he changes the time to make me more secure. Sometimes 5,6,7. Well, I say to him two days ago when he has day off "why don't u go to gym early since ur home". He says "it bothers me that u tell me what to do. I'll go when to go. I'm a big boy. I'll go when I want. X tells me I should express what upsets me and that's one"

I then say "I don't understand y u can't go early when it will least impact family time. It frustrates me". Then he says I'm mad at him for expressing his feelings, like he's advised to do.
He likes to go tht time bc it's part of his routine and he's used to that time period. He's invited me to attend with him at that time to show he has nothing to hide.
I don't thk he has anythg to hide but it is a sucky time. Why nt help me make dinner? Clean up after dinner? Sit and talk while I make dinner?

My point is I'm feeling like boy did I luck out. My H rips my heart out bc he screws my friend for 2 yrs, I can't sleep peacefully bc I have PTSD and NOW he is expressing HIS concerns and annoyances so he doesn't bottle thgs up and have another damn A. Lucky me

I'm ready to say to do me a favor, bottle it up and go have fantasy. I don't need this

devasted30 posted 8/15/2014 09:44 AM

Nothing is as cut and dried as it looks, is it. There are so many issue even in a good marriage where spouses don't say things, hold back or just keep it under their hat. If people would be gently honest from the beginning, then things would have never festered to the point of an A. Now, with the pain we are in, we have to understand that we were partially responsible for the breakdown of our marriage (not the cheating part, that is ALL on them) but we have to put up with their healing and realizations. I feel it is damn hard to be on their side when they are finally venting about all the little things that bothered them B4 and knowing that we wouldn't be where we are if they had just spoken up. Any perceived criticism from my WS rubs me the wrong way. I am an open wound and it feels like he is pouring salt into it. I know it's all part of the healing process and I need to understand that it really isn't meant the way I take it but still.....
This R thing is not for the faint of heart. It's a difficult thing to do when you are still reeling from everything else.

bionicgal posted 8/15/2014 09:45 AM

Are you guys in MC? Because yes, he needs to express true needs, but talking about your attire and not negotiating on gym time are not what his IC has in mind, I am sure.

It is true that waywards need to be able to express themselves, but he needs some skills in this area, apparently.

sisoon posted 8/15/2014 10:09 AM

Gently, I read indirect communications in both of you. Changing as much as possible to direct communication and specific requests will almost definitely help.

For example, instead of 'why don't you...,' something like, 'Will you go to the gym early today so we can have more family time?' will probably get a better result. Similarly, 'Will you do ______ to help with dinner?' This gives your H a choice, and the choices he make will give you good indications of how committed he is to building the M you both want.

Besides, if you ask him to do things, and he can say 'no', he'll probably realize he can't whine about being treated like a little boy.

As for him, request mode would stop the stupidity and ineffectiveness of things like 'I didn't like what you wore yesterday.' OTOH, suppose he says, 'Will you wear this pair of shorts, because I like how you look in them?' Wouldn't that make you want to wear those shorts at least a little bit?

Funny you should mention shorts. I really dislike one pair of my W's shorts on her, and she knows it. She says, 'I like them,' and wears them when she wants to. It's OK to disagree on some things....

I think your H (and you) need to be straight about your wants and needs with each other, to paraphrase his IC. From the sound of it, your H has made a start but has a way to go.

I recommend using MC sessions to work out ways to communicate thoughts, feelings, wants, and needs to each other in ways that you both can say and hear.

I imagine request mode sounds very uncomfortable. My bet is that, if R is working for you, you'll be surprised and gratified at how often you'll say 'yes' to each other and how rarely you'll say 'no'.

TheIrishGirl posted 8/15/2014 10:13 AM

It sounds like he can express his feelings (I like to go to the gym at this time), but hearing your feelings on the issue (that time makes my life harder) is not okay. Sounds like he's still a bit self centered in this whole thing. Next time he expresses his feelings, and then disregards yours, you should say, "I heard your feelings and don't deny them as yours and valid. Did you hear my response, my feelings, in the same way?"

Would he work to find a solution with you if you felt like your preference was to get your workout in at the same time? Or would the fact that he comes home hungry and would like you to have dinner in the table trump your feeling that working out at 6 is nice?

notanavrageangel posted 8/15/2014 10:17 AM

I agree with bionicgal.

We are only 6 weeks from our DDay, but when I discovered his A, WH cracked open, and a flood of pain and emotions came out of him from his childhood. His "why" for the A is deep fear of disappointment (he felt he was disappointing everyone including me) and a very low self esteem. It all stems from emotional abuse and neglect as a child. He had never opened up about any of this to me before, so it's difficult to be supportive of him coming out and sharing his feelings, while I am in so much pain too. We are trying to strike a balance, and kind of tie everything together. I ask a lot of questions to try to understand him deep within.

But it seems like your WH is using what his IC said as an excuse of sorts to be a bit of a bully. I am saying this gently, obviously we don't know the whole story, but telling you he doesn't like your shorts is just kinda rude, and not being able to compromise on gym times seems selfish to me. In order for it to work you both have to strike a balance and be able to express yourselves while keeping the others feelings in mind as well.

Hatemyhusband posted 8/15/2014 10:17 AM

Sisoon. Interesting. I see ur point.
We are in MC. It was frustrating bc he was seeing me asking y he won't go earlier as me TELLING him what to do. It took a while but I got across that I'm not doing it to control him, but to spend more time together. I shared that I'm wondering "gee when will he go to gym tonite so I can suggest maybe a movie or walk"

I'm always hoping he makes the choice himself which I now see is a lose lose situation from the start for him. I'm going with the ask method for now on. I'm also going to suggest the next MC session he do the same. It's not hurtful that way and achieves same results as saying "those shirts don't look good on u. I like the others"

Hatemyhusband posted 8/15/2014 10:21 AM

It doesn't bother me he dislikes a pair of shorts. They are frumpy. Not a problem as he doesn't express desire for my clothes to change often at all. It's the way it was said

I dislike certain articles of clothing on him. I also dislike facial hair. It's ok to feel certain things are more attractive than others.

It's way it's said.

sisoon posted 8/15/2014 11:48 AM

he was seeing me asking y he won't go earlier as me TELLING him what to do.

Just for the record, IMO, a reasonably healthy person would not do that. An indirect request should work and could work. It's just that a direct request works more often.

It's way it's said.

Exactly. Body language, tone of voice, timing all can screw up communication.

My reaction was based on when he said it. That is, instead of saying it early yesterday, when you could change, he said it today (I may have the actual days wrong), when you couldn't. It sounds like he saved up his dissatisfaction and criticized you unfairly.

His IC probably wants him to get this stuff out when he feels/thinks it, so he doesn't save it up and get resentful or criticize you when you can't do anything about it.

sinsof thefather posted 8/15/2014 13:20 PM

I then say "I don't understand y u can't go early when it will least impact family time. It frustrates me". Then he says I'm mad at him for expressing his feelings, like he's advised to do.
To me, this is just a distraction technique he's using. He's changing the argument from him not compromising about when he chooses to go to the gym to him 'not being allowed to express his feelings'. Those are two different things. Him being able to express his feelings is different to him stubbornly refusing to compromise on the time he goes to the gym. It wasn't him expressing his feelings that you were angry with - it was him refusing to compromise on his actions. Different things altogether.

Hatemyhusband posted 8/15/2014 13:39 PM

His statement was that he "routinely goes after he comes home, eats a bit and settles down. Shifting times so I don't feel like he has to be there at a certain time"

My point- I understand. I like to go in am as soon as I wake up, but y would he NOT consider going before the "after work" crowd, to get it in so he could hang w family.

He said "what makes it ok for u to tell me when to go to gym? I don't tell u. And u even tell me to take ur car over and over and I don't want to"

( I have a new car. He has work trucks. I tell him bc parking is easier than a huge truck & I want him to know I don't plan on going out so won't be inconvenienced He doesn't want to take my car bc it gets dinged in lot. )
So he assumes I'm telling him what to do, when I'm simply offering or suggesting.

And I'm not worried abt AP, but as far as I know there could be some chick he's sitting there watching and fantasizing about. How do I know? He asks me to attend when he goes, but it could be a distraction technique. He used to ask my sons to "take ride to store w him" and they'd opt to stay home then he'd meet ap.
It's all so screwed up and range of issues we deal w in As

He could honestly just like the time to unwind then go when he's used to going but it seems it's always about him. When I go even to get nails done, I'm going when I know it's least impacting on kids and him. That's my first priority, with him, I feel it is not

tushnurse posted 8/15/2014 14:37 PM

Ok I get Sissoon's point to a degree, but come the fuck on. He is a grown ass man that sees she is busting her ass to get dinner on the table, and get things picked up, and do the whole evening routine, which if it's anything like my house is hectic, and he chooses to go to the gym during this time, even though he knows it's a trigger, and he knows he should be helping.

I'm sorry but it seems very selfish of him. Now that being said we all know that WS's are a bit emotionally stunted, that's why they made the crappy choices they made. And it does take some work on learning to communicate a bit more effectively. However I don't think I have to mollycoddle my H because he has crappy coping skills..... See my point. I should be able to say I need help, can you defer the gym until the kids are in bed, or go early tomorrow, and he should say yes. If he doesn't he is being selfish, and I need to call him out on it, saying "You are being selfish, and you can go ahead and go, but I need you to figure out a better way to do this." Put it on him to come up with a solution.

sinsof thefather posted 8/15/2014 15:11 PM

My point- I understand. I like to go in am as soon as I wake up, but y would he NOT consider going before the "after work" crowd, to get it in so he could hang w family.

He said "what makes it ok for u to tell me when to go to gym? I don't tell u. And u even tell me to take ur car over and over and I don't want to"

Here, he deflects again. He completely ignores the 'hanging with the family' question altogether and makes it about you being at fault. I think tushnurse nails it here:
I'm sorry but it seems very selfish of him. Now that being said we all know that WS's are a bit emotionally stunted, that's why they made the crappy choices they made. And it does take some work on learning to communicate a bit more effectively. However I don't think I have to mollycoddle my H because he has crappy coping skills..... See my point. I should be able to say I need help, can you defer the gym until the kids are in bed, or go early tomorrow, and he should say yes. If he doesn't he is being selfish, and I need to call him out on it, saying "You are being selfish, and you can go ahead and go, but I need you to figure out a better way to do this." Put it on him to come up with a solution.
Don't let him get away with distraction and deflections.

BtraydWife posted 8/15/2014 19:58 PM

Um...yeah. He doesn't sound quite as remorseful as you described him as. That's twisting things to suit himself. That's very asshole of him. He's been missing the point in counseling.

This is a big issue. Red flags are going off all over the place.

Next time in MC ask for help with your wh's shame. It's blocking his ability to show empathy for how his A has hurt you.

What he's doing isn't right and him using the justification of it being part of him getting better is a load of bullshit.

Has he made any remarks like "you are the one that wanted me to go to IC"? Or "I'm trying to avoid bottling up my feelings so I don't cheat again"?

Because that's a sign of an unremorseful asshole twisting IC in attempt to make you responsible for his actions. Do you see what I mean?

[This message edited by BtraydWife at 8:04 PM, August 15th (Friday)]

Hatemyhusband posted 8/24/2014 00:05 AM

Mentioned this to my IC, who has met w him a few times early DD sessions. She explained that for a man with NO communication skills, he's trying. He's taking advice literally. His IC isn't asking him to express feeling if dislike in wardrobe, hair, etc but he's using the easiest way to express any feelings to show he is listening to IC

We talked. I explained to H that he's barely afloat here in our R process, communicating dislikes in wardrobe etc is not the best thing to do at this point. I shared my happiness with his communicating his frustration at work, w his disappointment in his sister who got him to pay for her ticket, etc

He understood and our MC also restated the same

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