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Hoosierbuckeye posted 8/17/2014 20:17 PM

New here, as at the moment I don't know where else to turn. So please forgive me upfront for not using abbreviations.

Been married for 14 years. We have one child (11 yo). For the majority of the past 11 years (after child) my wife has been in and out of affairs, mainly emotional. Each time there was an excuse. Each time I did what I could to better myself to correct the reason that "caused" her to seek someone else. Five years ago, I took a new job that caused us to relocate. Because at the time, that was the excuse, my job was taking too much of me. We were unable to sell our home in a timely manner for what I wanted for it, so we held into it. When school was out, wife wanted to move back and wanted me to get a job where we lived. So I agreed, to this and sent her and child back to original city in our home. At that time I learned that she was on a dating website. She had herself listed as divorced. I had access to her email account because during a prior affair, I told her that there would be no more secrecy and part of us staying married was she had lost all trust. I began preparation for the inevitable at this time. But there was one problem. We were dead broke, penniless. She had cleaned out our bank accounts and gambled it all away. (+$20k). I was stupid, I know. She had made all of the bills like cell phone and bank statements paperless and they all went to her and I never saw them. I worked as hard as I could at that point to try and figure it all out and make sense of it. For the next 9 months we lived 200 miles apart, I drove "home" every Friday and back every Sunday. I forgave her AGAIN, she said she wanted the marriage. So, I then made probably another stupid move, I stopped paying the mortgage. She had no where to go, except moving back. She did move back and things seemed to get better.

Fast forward to one year ago. I got another job offer in a more desirable location. We moved a year ago and I have now found yet another dating profile of hers. Complete with pictures (which could be quite embarrassing because we live in a town of less than 25k). The profile is full of fabrication. She states she is separated. She lied about her job. She lied about her age. She lied about her education. She does not know I know about the dating profile. I confronted her a few months ago because I saw a text that was sexual I nature and she said I was crazy. It started a big fight. At that time I tried to find a way to just ignore this until I got my head on straight. I found an old cell phone that is still logged in to her email account and I have seen emails to OM. At least once a week she goes out and does not come home until 2-3 in the morning, always drunk. Two months ago she told me and child she was going with friends on a shopping trip. This was a Sunday and my child had a pool party for one of her sports teams. Wife told child she would be there. Well she never came home at all. In fact she texted me late in the night telling me she wanted a divorce. So once again, I made up my mind to pull the plug on it. I got up the following morning and got child ready for the nanny. Child asked for mother and I said nothing. Child is smart and questions late nights and has been acting out lately. I later got an email asking for my help to get counseling for addiction, etc.and she asked what I wanted. I asked her if she wanted out and she said no. I said ok, then the crap must stop.

Confronted her again Friday and she said she had no reason to be unfaithful. Today at church, had a conversation she told me she is a grown woman and she can do what she wants. I said, you are a wife and mother, stop making us an option. She later said she wants to go to counseling and a marriage boot camp. She teaches a Sunday school class and one time a while back, I threw that in her face of how she is able to stand in front of children and talk about God. So obviously our church is not a safe place for me right now, because she is active and has everyone there fooled. I have seen emails to other church members making me out to be a bad guy because our child had a conflict between church camp and sports and I didn't care either way, but the email made me out to be a sports freak parent that didn't care about church.

Now, tonight (Sunday) she went out with a mutual friend (female) but I don't believe her. I don't know when she will be home and she has been texting me throughout the night. I know this is sometimes a tactic to throw me off.

I am a pretty strong person and I started a journal in June logging every night she is gone, where she is and who she says she is with. I have saved emails and text messages to me stating she is depressed, she is suicidal, she is an alcoholic, etc. I so have been taking screen shots if the emails that I have seen between her and OM.

She blames her actions and behavior on menopause. She says I am the only one she wants. Sex is not lacking. On the surface we seem normal. I just try to ignore the behavior and she does not know I know.

I am prepared to see a lawyer. I am going to fight for custody of child. But I am really scared being a M and trying to win a custody fight with a lying narcissist. I am confused between words and actions. Child would be devastated. That is the only reason i stay for now, to keep some type of normalcy for child. I have lost all fight in me. I don't have any desire confronting her anymore. I simply try to focus on my child and my job and try not to fear each night she comes home drunk.

Am I an idiot?

Sorry for the long story, thanks for reading. I hope someone can shed some light because I really have no where to turn at the moment. I am not involving any family at the moment, although I think they know. My parents do not care for my wife and I think it's because they see right through her.

[This message edited by Hoosierbuckeye at 9:37 PM, August 17th (Sunday)]

hardtimesinlife posted 8/17/2014 20:36 PM

Welcome Hoosierbuckeye

I'm so sorry for the reason you joined but you found the best place to find help.

First, I hope you have been or plan to get std testing. It sounds like your WW (wayward wife) has been unfaithful for a while.

Have the two of you ever gone to counseling? Has she gone alone to figure out her issues?

Read some of the articles in the healing library (above left box). Keep posting and reading on here and you will navigate this and find your footing.

Hoosierbuckeye posted 8/17/2014 20:55 PM

Thank you hardtimesinlife.

I have edited my post that you replied too because I far fingered while typing and it posted before I was done.

brkn_heartd posted 8/17/2014 21:17 PM

Welcome. I am sorry you are here, but glad you found us. Make sure you are taking care of yourself and your child. It is obvious that your wife is only concerned about herself.

A couple of thoughts, you have no ownership into her actions.She is a broken woman. Regardless of anything in your marriage, you have no responsibility in her actions. She has done this. She will also continue to do this because she has had no consequences. You have let her come back, you have allowed her to continue the behavior. With that said...know that many of us have also done that...myself included! It is hard to finally get to the point that we say no more.

Only you can decide when that point is. I do advise talking to a lawyer. Find out your rights. You know she is having an affair(s). Your gut is telling you, her actions are telling you. Depending on your location, your laws may or may not be in your favor. However, you will know. You will know what you need to do, evidence to collect etc. You might also consider an individual counselor if you are struggling to pull the plug. They may be able to help you navigate through this. Your wife is not going to change..marriage boot camp is only to appease you....she has some serious work on HER. She also needs IC if not sexual addiction therapy.

This is a wonderful place for support. Keep posting!

Hoosierbuckeye posted 8/17/2014 22:09 PM


Thank you, I do appreciate those words.

I know what I need to do, I just need to get the strength and courage to do it. I only fear being a M going against what I have seen the past years. I know her well enough, that if the dating profile was placed in front of her in court, she would lie and say that someone stole pictures off FB and made it up. I know because I have seen the absurdity of her lies.

I am and have been a very faithful man. Of late, my faith is being tested and I have asked many times what i have done in this life to get this hell handed too me. There are days I cannot believe it myself. I am living proof that truth is stranger than fiction. I cannot imagine any person being so callused and cruel and lie to their own child and not think twice about it. Never mind my feelings, if it weren't for child this would have been over 11 years ago. But, as I stated previously, I stay for the child only. Because the child is a precious kid, so sweet and smart and would be devastated. It crushes me to see the mother so cruel and the innocent child so unaware of what is happening.

I don't have a support system whatsoever, that is why I came here.

As for counseling, many things that seem normal are not easy. My two full time jobs (9-5 & Dad) take everything I have. For the past 9 months, I get off work, pick up child at after school sitter (during school year), come home, help with homework, prepare meal for child, do laundry, play with child, take child to sports practice or games or whatever child is doing, get child ready for bed. Wife "works" until 7-8 each night. 1-2 times per week she is out partying, so every bit of my free time is spent with child. I called a babysitter one night and because the babysitter was a friends daughter, wife got wind of it and blew a gasket and asked what I was up too. I had a potential employee in town and I was going to take him to dinner the night before his interview. What would be laughable, if not so tragic, daughter had two mid week sleepovers earlier in the year while I was in Europe on business.

Thank you again for reading and listening. It is already helpful to know that I am not alone.

GotPlayed posted 8/17/2014 23:35 PM

Brother, don't let this shake your faith. This is when we use our faith. But it doesn't run out. Ask God to replenish it.

Things are hard because of the decisions of the sinner. Whatever you decide to do, S/D or R, know that you did not start this, so it is not your fault.

The damage to DS11, although tragic, has already been done. He just doesn't know it yet. Pretty much like the damage she did you. They think if they hide it or compartmentalize it there's no damage. Nothing could be further from the truth. What we don't know can and does hurt.

Many WWs make dad the babysitter while they go philandering. It's a way to "trap you" and control you, leaving you in the dark about what she is doing and adding another level of shame (because you're not going to go confront her with kid in tow). Same thing happened to me.

Pray, and talk to your men's pastor at your place of worship. Find an IC to help you through this. You're going to need to at least put her on notice, and set some serious conditions (which would include IC for her) before even considering offering R. And be prepared to follow through this time. She has heard it before from you, probably. And she went back to it. She also committed fraud against the marital estate by getting you into debt, etc. Before you continue having things blow up you probably want to talk to a L. Not about what she already spent, but about what she can and likely will do if there's another blowup, and how to preempt it.

You can't nice her into it. There is nothing you could do better. I hope you don't think it sounds sacrilegious, but she could have married Jesus and she would have still cheated and found some fault.

stronger08 posted 8/18/2014 03:06 AM

Bro, your situation is never going to change while you allow her to drive the proverbial bus. Thus far she has been able to emotionally terrorize you with her illicit behaviors and multiple affairs. With no repercussions I might add. Stop waiting for her to magically see the light and change her ways. That's never going to happen my friend because she has no fear of you. She is used to simply blowing you off and doing what she wants because YOU have never enforced a consequence on her. If you want change you must change things yourself. You do not have any control over how you WW acts. However, you do have control over how you react to her. I think its time you man up and put your foot down. Consult with an attorney and find out your rights and responsibilities if you need to D. Lay down the law and INSIST on certain criteria for R of you so desire to R. Enforce strict consequences should she balk or break on your R conditions, up to and including D. Don't make shallow threats, back up everything you say with direct and hard action. Trust me, there is nothing you can do to change her. She must change herself if you want any chance of a successful R. And she is never going to change herself unless you motivate her to.

Stop sitting there being reactive to her bullshit. I think its time you go on the offensive and don't stop until your in the end zone. Words right now just ain't gonna cut it, you must take control over the situation yourself. Personally I'd kick her ass to the curb and cut her off financially, emotionally etc. Take control over your life and protect it. Be proactive in your healing and make sure the kids are protected as well. You must assume that D is the only alternative and she must be made aware of that. After all, it is the only card to have in your hand that might motivate her to change. This does not mean she will change as that entails a lot of hard work. And lets face it your WW has made a life out of cheating and blaming you. Change is not going to be easy for her and she might say fuck it at first. The important thing is to allow her to experience life without you in it. I suggest you read up in the healing library about the 180, NC and preparing for the D. There is much knowledge and great advice there.

Ten years ago I came here broken and confused. My XWW had cheated and as it turned out the cheating was multiple. She also had run up tens of thousands in debt that I knew nothing of. If you read the other members stories you will find many parallels between them and yourself. Affairs are not unique and surprisingly follow the same script. Follow the advice of the others, keep reading and posting. The one undisputed fact is that nothing will change unless YOU change them. Hang in the brother, this is going to get worse before it gets better. But it does get better, I promise you that. The length of time it takes to heal varies and depends on how you proceed. So I suggest you proceed wisely.

2married2quit posted 8/18/2014 09:07 AM

I'm here so obviously I'm the last person to give any marital advice, but your wife (according to your story) has some SERIOUS issues. Persuade her to go to counseling. Perhaps first together and later her individually. As far as you, be strong friend. This maybe quite the ride. I'm so sorry for your situation. Hugs.

Badhurt posted 8/18/2014 10:01 AM

know what I need to do, I just need to get the strength and courage to do it.

The above is a quote from you. Nothing will change until you do what is in that statement.

Right now, MC is a waste of your money and time. Either you take control of your life or NOTHING will change. If you do not get rid of her, you may as well learn to be content in an open marriage because that is what you are now in.

only you can change that. She will not.

[This message edited by Badhurt at 10:02 AM, August 18th (Monday)]

million tears posted 8/18/2014 10:35 AM

I agree with others. She WILL NOT change right now. She has no reason to. She has no consequences. She has you to do everything while she parties. You need to lay down the law and follow through. No amount of niceness or love or caring on your part will change the way she acts. No amount is enough. I don't think MC or marriage boot camp or anything else will help at this point. She needs a slap in the face with reality. IC could be beneficial for her but if she is lying to you, she can easily lie and manipulate her counselor, so I doubt it. I would suggest IC for you.

Stay strong for yourself and your child. Your child deserves more than this as do you.

Hoosierbuckeye posted 8/18/2014 11:10 AM

Update: it has been less than 16 hours since I came here because I truly have no where else to turn. WW came home last night sometime between 1:30-3:00. Asked me to stay home to talk. I did. She said she wanted a separation. I said sure, I told her she can move out and I geared everything toward her moving out, to the point of encouraging it. I did that because she thinks this is going to be some handshake separation and she will be able to come back at will. Well it is not going to happen that way. During the conversation I told her that the lying to the child was the worst anyone could do. She admitted her life is full of lies. She admitted to lying to child constantly. As I type this I am preparing for D and I am scheduling an appointment with 2 attorneys to interview. I am hopeful that by her leaving, that will play in my favor in custody. She is a messed up individual and the thought of her having our child in her care sickens me. I am also going to get bank records for the past 6 months and hard copies of the cell phone bill (that is in my name).

She continued to try to get a rise out if me the entire conversation. I had such a wall up, I simply sat and listened. I told her there was nothing left, she had taken all that I had and it was no longer fair of her to treat me and child as she did. She got madder and madder at my no emotion to the situation at one point telling me she was going to take me for everything I had and make me suffer. I simply said, "ok, good luck".

I have held all cards close to my vest this go around. In her mind, she thinks that I am clueless to the dating website, the OM, her whereabouts each night, etc, etc. Through many of the words shared in this thread, I have gained some of the strength I need to carry on. I have come to the reality that there would not be much change if any for me and child once she is gone.

She then asked me for some professional advice, to which to I told her she no longer has the privilege of my expertise. "Figure it out on your own, that's what you want to be on your own, right?" As I left the house, she wanted to know where I was going. No answer. She asked if I would be home when child gets home. To which I replied, I am always home for child, you are the one that's never around. Then I got the angry/sad "oh sure, that's right, kick me while I'm down". To which I said nothing and left.

This individual had it handed to her on a silver platter. The only option left is D. I have re-channeled hurt and anger toward doing what is right for me and child.

Thank you all for listening and thank you who posted to this thread.

sisoon posted 8/18/2014 12:47 PM

It looks like you've found what is called 'the 180'. I suggest reading something about it - is a start.

If R is even a remote possibility for you (i.e. if it's something you could want if a number of requirements were met), I suggest starting with a requirement of IC for your W, with the provisos that you start with a joint session to make sure the IC gets the truths and that you have regular joint sessions to make sure the IC keeps getting the truth.

I'm very sorry you have to go through this. Don't be ashamed or afraid to ask for help resolving the feelings that come along with being betrayed.

stronger08 posted 8/18/2014 17:03 PM

I also suggest you read up on NC. NC = No new hurt !!!!! Now is the time for you and your child to heal. She is nothing but a lost cause who has no remorse and only thinks of herself. What kind of mother puts her needs above those of her kids ? The ones we M my friend. Like a cancer, they must be removed from your being. Please keep posting and reading.

Hoosierbuckeye posted 8/19/2014 10:48 AM

Latest update: Yesterday after our morning conversation, I left the house to TCB. I went to the bank and got hard copies of the bank statements over the past 4 months. No surprises. I matched up my journal entries of where she said she was to trips to the casino. I schedule an appointment with an attorney for later that afternoon, then basically stayed away. Later got a text from WW "I don't think I can do this". I did not reply. More texts from her, "are you playing golf?", "what's going on?", no replies. I was at a park gathering my thoughts.

I retuned home and just kind of hung out in the living room. She came into the living room and I got up and went outside and sat on the deck. Ignoring her.

My phone consultation with the attorney was later in the afternoon. I left the house and had my phone consultation. I have emails and text messages dave from WW stating depression, thoughts of suicide and stating she is a drunk. I told the attorney and she told me "put those someplace and back them up, do not, I repeat, do not lose them". She was very confident in my chances as custodial parent and is big on best interest for the child.

Retuned home and WW wanted to talk. I did not. She got really angry because I would not engage her. She kept asking if I spoke to an attorney, over and over and over. Finally I said, "thinking about it". She said, well if you are, then there's no need for us both to incur that expense. She has it in her mind that there is some equal way this is going to lay out and she has nothing to fear. Well, I have reached the point of, once this starts, it's all out war!

This morning I got up, went to work and on the way out the door, she says "have a great day". Are you f'ing kidding me? She sent me an email later in the morning telling me how she has been reading up on stuff. Like a bad spouse does not equal a bad parent. She's never been witness to a good marriage or good parenting because her parents were neither. She says she sees what mistakes she has made and she needs to be proactive in communication. Then asked where I was in it today. I said I don't know. She now wants to meet for lunch.

More to come.


Hoosierbuckeye posted 8/19/2014 12:02 PM

Update. Well that went south fast. Because I would not engage her we didn't even make it inside for lunch. She said that if I was going to be a jackass about this then there was no sense in going further. So I said fine and went and got in my car to leave. Not that I was going to be a jackass, I just wasn't going to get trapped by her little games. She followed me across the street because I decided I was going full steam ahead with D, so I went to make some phone calls. She followed me and a he flipped out when I wouldn't roll down my window and talk to her. She totally flipped and was banging on my windows and kicking my car. She was screaming through the windows "what kind of secretive bullshit are you up to?" I had to literally laugh. This coming from the queen of a secretive living. My laughing at her was like throwing gasoline on a fire.

At this point she believes she has done nothing wrong and has threatened removing child from home. To which I said no you won't. She then continued on and on how she has rights and she was not leaving until forced out. I have never told her she didn't have any rights to child, she has concocted in her mind that this is all about me and revenge. I am looking out for the interest of my child. I will not have my child living on the presence of her loose morals. If I wanted revenge I would have taken some in the past 11 years. I am filing the paperwork tomorrow for D based on adultery and habitual drunkeness. I'm sure with the gambling the lawyer will advise more causes.

I may have to go to another forum (divorce support) as I think that the infidelity is only a part of the problem now.

I appreciate the words that were given here and I appreciate those who have read. I have learned here is that I am not alone!!!!

[This message edited by Hoosierbuckeye at 12:48 PM, August 19th (Tuesday)]

SpecialK posted 8/19/2014 12:44 PM

Private Investigator

cashflow posted 8/19/2014 13:33 PM

Having been through a brutal custody and divorce with my currant partner I can tell you one of THE most important things for him winning his case in a similar situation, was keeping a daily journal of everything that happened in the day. From what the children ate, their activities, who took care of them before and after school, bedtime etc.. and obviously and craziness that happened in between. You need to establish that you are an important caregiver in your child's life. Unfortunately, otherwise it is assumed that the mother does all of this and should automatically get primary custody.

cashflow posted 8/19/2014 13:47 PM

Oh, and one more crucial thing-whatever happens, DO NOT leave the family home!! The courts want to see that you can provide a stable home life for the child involved. Make her leave the home. Even if it starts out with her on the couch. Let her eventually leave the home. Don't you do it no matter how bad things get between the two of you!

Hoosierbuckeye posted 8/19/2014 14:47 PM

Cashflow, thank you for the advice. I will take all advice I can get here, because this is so out of the norm for anything I had to deal with in 45+ years on this earth, I didn't know where to turn a few days ago.

I have been doing research, etc and I have no intention of leaving the home. I almost made that mistake one other time when there was a big blow up over her extra curricular activities. She has no problem leaving and staying away, she's done it multiple times since child was born, all times whereabouts, unknown. Except the latest two, because I took the bull by the horns and decided the crap is going to end once and for all! One time she just never came home, mentioned in initial post and two weeks ago, she said she was visiting friends in one city, but she was at the casino in another city. To make it worse, our child served communion at church that day, which she missed and showed no remorse whatsoever. She has also used the church as a tool to lie as well, saying she was doing things for church and she was actually out partying. Who would question someone when they say they are at church? I'm dealing with a real piece of work here. I feel so stupid at times because I married her. The only consultation is our child and I intend to fight tooth and nail to get custody. If I were on the outside looking in, I would swear this was a Lifetime movie.

I learned to keep the journal, I have all of her psychotic rants in emails and texts and I am not leaving the home. I also learned to keep my cool and allow her to bury herself. She keeps emailing me at work, because I won't acknowledge her and she is now trying to profess that I was a horrible father for the previous 9 years. Which isn't true and she has no grounds for the divorce. I was never abusive to her or the child, I gave her every opportunity available above and beyond. I never made her do anything she didn't want to do and too a fault, look what that got me. The only thing she goes back to is that I held her captive by lying to her about wanting to keep the marriage together. She is pushing for dissolution or separation because that's easy, there is no cause needed other than incompatibility. I am going to pursue divorce on grounds because there are grounds and I am going to fight for custody. She keeps emailing me asking me to be civil, for child's sake. I am being civil, I'm just not speaking to her. She has to "work late" tonight, to which I say GOOD, SO WHAT! My attorney has advised me to let her have her late night fun. Which at this point I don't care because I have established a separate bank account and I am moving on, she will be dead broke by Friday and she will be begging for gas money. I will venture a guess that she will get it from one of the OM, because she has done that before. I saw an email a few years ago where one if these losers (loser because he knew she was married) was wanting his money back because his car needed repaired.

The cherry on top for me would be if she got pulled over and arrested for OWI.

cashflow posted 8/19/2014 15:14 PM

A DUI would be great for you in this case. You also need to establish a date of separation, meaning the date you last decided the marriage was going to work and one of you moved out of the marital bedroom. This will then be used in all the court documents going forward. It's very important in a divorce case because you have to be separated for XX amount of days before a judge will make a ruling, so there has to be a clear date of separation. Another thing, you do need to be careful since you are still residing together that you remain civil. I totally understand that you do not wish to engage in conversation with her, but if there are basic questions that need answering and can be answered without an altercation ensuing, you need to respond, otherwise she could use it against you by telling her attorney (now or in the future) that you are creating a hostile environment for your child and actually get a PFA forcing you out of the home-this is a worst case scenario but unfortunately, woman have a LOT of power in custody cases and when they play victim, bad things happen. She sounds like a great manipulator so just be very careful with all you say and do. Do not ever resort to a physical shoving match because then all bets are off/game over. She will have won. I know I seem like I am rambling on here but I saw this all firsthand from inside and it took 5 years/$60,000 in attorney fees to win the case. The worst is that the children suffer through all the courts and craziness.

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