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User Topic: Affair season and anti-versary coming up...help
peoplepleaser
♀ 41535
Member # 41535
Default  Posted: 9:12 PM, August 17th (Sunday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I hadno idea what my emotions would do during this time. It's almost like DDay all over again. And WS seems less compassionate, more defensive and increasingly hopeless about our relationship, saying I'll never get over it. Some of the things she says are similar to what she said during and in defense of the EAs. Then when I say it seems like she might be cheating again, she's flabbergasted. I'm not paying enough attention to what she is doing, she believes. Shouldn't she understand that I would think that? Am I crazy to think that it seems more likely that she is given her response?

A month or two ago she would respond by holding me and reassuring me and saying she's sorry. Now she responds by trying to tell me how to move past it, or how it's not what I think about the present or it wasn't what I'm thinking about the past. I need validation and compassion, not to be told I'm wrong. I hurt so bad. This is like going through DDay all over again, as I navigate through thoughts of what was happening right now last year. It's so painful. And I'm so lonely.

How did you get through it?

[This message edited by peoplepleaser at 9:14 PM, August 17th (Sunday)]


WS: 39
BS: 39
DS: 6
9 year relationship
DDay #1: September 6, 2013 EA for 5 weeks August 2013 with TT
DDay #2: January 2, 2014 EA for 6 weeks summer 2011 with TT
"I am still learning." -Michelangelo

Posts: 938 | Registered: Dec 2013 | From: Midwest
brkn_heartd
♀ 30396
Member # 30396
Default  Posted: 9:26 PM, August 17th (Sunday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I am sorry you are hurting. A season is hard to navigate, the first one is the hardest. Have the two of you sat down and discussed this when you are not having triggers? If not, I would suggest that you do. Is she on SI? or has she been reading? It is important that she knows it takes 2-5 years to heal from an A. The A season is so incredibly hard at times....there are certain triggers that will always be there.

Having the conversation with her is very important especially if she is pushing back. If she continues to push back on your healing and your time line, I would question if she is truly remorseful. Each of us are unique in our time to heal, I believe our partners help or slow down that process. If she continues to slow down your process you may need to re-evaluate your situation. With you mentioning the way she is acting....does your gut feel like she is having another affair?

Sending strength to you.


Me-52 BS
Him 59-WS
Married 32 yrs, together 35
Affair Aug-Dec 09
official D-12/14/09
broke NC 1/31/10
second D 3/19/10

Posts: 1918 | Registered: Dec 2010 | From: Northwesten US
peoplepleaser
♀ 41535
Member # 41535
Default  Posted: 9:37 PM, August 17th (Sunday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Thank you for the response. We haven't. I'm having triggers constantly. I'm not communicating them well either. She says I'm attacking her, and I know it seems that way. What I'm trying to do is let her know what's going through my head. But the response is that I'm thinking about it wrong, which doesn't help. Then she's frustrated that something she did caused me concern, and rattles off a bunch of things she's been doing that I had no idea about--as if I should have seen them because then I wouldn't have had to trouble her with the concerns I mentioned.

I don't think she is, but I will never say that 100% again. However, her words tell me she's ripe for it right now. She's regressed to telling me she's sorry but not showing it, if that makes sense. I feel like my emotions are an inconvenience tat are in the way of her life and happiness. That if I just listened to what she tells me to do then I would be fine. But her coping skills aren't so good or we wouldn't be here. Plus, she's proven she's a liar. A good one.


WS: 39
BS: 39
DS: 6
9 year relationship
DDay #1: September 6, 2013 EA for 5 weeks August 2013 with TT
DDay #2: January 2, 2014 EA for 6 weeks summer 2011 with TT
"I am still learning." -Michelangelo

Posts: 938 | Registered: Dec 2013 | From: Midwest
lucy17
♀ 40187
Member # 40187
Default  Posted: 9:43 PM, August 17th (Sunday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Peoplepleaser,
I am so sorry for what you are going through. I wouldn't wish it on anyone. I am almost through my first affair season.
For me it seems like the days I am least prepared for hit me hardest. I thought D-day 1 would be more difficult than D-day 2 so I had a plan for my H and I to be together, out of town, for D-day 1, but no plan such plan for D-day 2. It hit me hard.
My H also was acting defensive and continued to ask me if I thought I would ever be able to move on or if I even wanted to---which influenced me to feel like I wasn't doing enough.
We are still going to MC once a month and MC told WH to figure out some different coping skills other than getting defensive with me---After what he did to our relationship and what I am having to go through WH is going to have to make some difficult changes and sometimes "take my anger and sadness and do whatever it is at the time to help me get through if he wants our marriage to survive--and that it's not going away anytime soon--3-5 years---WH's choices sentenced us to three to five years of hard, hard work before he can even think about asking me if I am able to move on....
Sorry, a little rambly there at the end while trying to explain MC's words to WH. I agree with brkn-heard that it sounds like you need to know you are absolutely within reason and your wife doesn't seem to know that. If she's not reading on SI or seeing a counselor or reading books, she may need to do more to help you and your marriage make it through.
Wishing you strength.


The world breaks everyone and afterward many are strong at the broken places." Hemingway
Me- BS 35
Him- WS 40
1 child- 9 years old
together 17 years, married 14 years
Dday1- 7/7/13
Dday2- 8/12/13
The rollercoaster of R

Posts: 148 | Registered: Aug 2013
peoplepleaser
♀ 41535
Member # 41535
Default  Posted: 10:06 PM, August 17th (Sunday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Thanks. She was seeing a counselor. Intermittently, though she had excuses for why. Recently she let her IC tell get she could go down to once a month. Still hasn't followed up (it's been two weeks now) even though she said she would. She's too busy. She reads on here, but doesn't post. She says the right things, but later and later in conversations. It's like I have to fight to get a validating and compassionate response for my feelings. First she's got reasons why I shouldn't feel that way, then talks about how it hurts her. Then she wants to counsel me about how I should handle my feelings. Then after a back and forth and me reduced to audible sobbing, she says she's sorry and just wants to help. It's maddening. Something has to give. This is too painful on top of already too painful stuff. E can't survive this as it is.


WS: 39
BS: 39
DS: 6
9 year relationship
DDay #1: September 6, 2013 EA for 5 weeks August 2013 with TT
DDay #2: January 2, 2014 EA for 6 weeks summer 2011 with TT
"I am still learning." -Michelangelo

Posts: 938 | Registered: Dec 2013 | From: Midwest
sisoon
♂ 31240
Member # 31240
Default  Posted: 11:48 AM, August 18th (Monday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

We're going through our 5th A season, the 4th since d-day. I was a wreck during the A and the 1st antiversary (from just before 8/8, when the sex started through 12/22, d-day), and I've felt like a wreck during this period ever since. (My W says I'm less effed up each year, though.)

It IS like d-day all over again for many (most? all?) of us. Feel your feelings. When you're on an even keel, explain the sitch, if you haven't already. Ask your WS for the support you want each time. Give her opportunities to step up.

You need to heal - that's your top priority, though it's not your only priority. When your priorities conflict, the quickest way to survival is to honor your need to heal.

If your WS can't handle that, do you really need her? (I haven't been able to figure out a gentle way to say that....)

[This message edited by sisoon at 11:56 AM, August 18th (Monday)]


fBH (me) - 70 (22 in my head), fWW (plainsong) - 70 (22 in my head), Married 45+, together since 1965, same sex ap
DDay - 12/22/2010
Recover'd and R'ed
I'm not an exemplar. I share my own experience because it's all I know.

Posts: 11972 | Registered: Feb 2011 | From: Chicago area
veronique12
♀ 42185
Member # 42185
Default  Posted: 12:42 PM, August 18th (Monday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I'm sorry peoplepleaser. I'm in first A season right now too and it sucks. Emotions are different daily--sometimes really happy, sometimes really mad, sometimes suspicious, sometimes so in love with H, sometimes numb.

I did talk to my H and told him that the next few months are probably going to be bumpy and I need his support. Like sisoon mentioned, you should really sit down and have a heart to heart with WS when you're calm to let her know you will need her support as you face this super traumatic time. She should know that your relationship will be so much stronger if she can offer you that support.

Sending strength.


BW: me (39)
WH: 44
OW: false "friend"
D-Day: 11/29/13 (4 month EA discovered); 12/19/13 (discovered was also PA); TT thru 2/14
Married: 2001; Together for 20 years
2 beautiful young kids

Posts: 865 | Registered: Jan 2014
brkn_heartd
♀ 30396
Member # 30396
Default  Posted: 8:51 PM, August 18th (Monday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

PP,
When my H and I were navigating through the communication land mines, one of the things we did that helped was set time to talk. We would sit on the couch and face each other. We would touch or hold hands when we talked. If one of us became upset it became obvious because one of us would withdraw and pull back our hands. We were able to respond with "I am feeling what I said upset you. Lets talk about that." That actually gave each of us an opportunity to talk and feeling safe to acknowledge the perceived problem. We didn't plan to use that tactic, but we did and it really worked.

I suggest maybe you could set some time up to talk with your W and try that method. Talk with her about the triggers and what those triggers are. Ask her about her triggers. Talk with her about challenges you both are having through the healing process. That conversation will give you a lot of input on where she is. It does sound like she is reverting back to old habits (not meaning an A) but as you said she is getting ripe for it again. If she does not have the commitment to work with you for the several years it takes, you may need to re-evaluate your long term plan. Her decision to drop IC to monthly is concerning....especially if she fails to follow through.

Sending you support.


Me-52 BS
Him 59-WS
Married 32 yrs, together 35
Affair Aug-Dec 09
official D-12/14/09
broke NC 1/31/10
second D 3/19/10

Posts: 1918 | Registered: Dec 2010 | From: Northwesten US
peoplepleaser
♀ 41535
Member # 41535
Default  Posted: 10:17 AM, August 19th (Tuesday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Thank you all. We were doing ok I thought. Now that I look back I have to wonder if there has been some rugsweeping or at least denial of the pain. Over the course of the past 6 months in R she didn't come totally clean (?still not completely sure because she still doesn't remember) until a month ago, has attended IC regularly for two months total and is still in limbo with that, lied to me three months ago about a dating site visit during separation, still argues in circular logic at times (maybe not outright lying but still running around the truth), is regressing with regard to her "intent", and is now regressing and expecting me to field her emotions during A season when I need comfort, compassion, validation and support for the hourly onslaught of intrusive reminders. This isn't working.

Our weekly talks are no longer scheduled, and though she learned to validate my feelings before and is now set on sharing her perspective first (defensive). I'm reeling from my emotions and feeling totally unsafe and insecure. She's also regressing back to pre-A behavior and acting on my anticipated needs, which means that when I voice them or bring attention to other concerns I'm asking too much, am too needy and will never accept what she's doing as enough. I feel that our MC is not educated enough on affairs, so she is working on getting me to see what WS is doing rather than pressuring WS into processing her reactions to my pain. It's maddening. My IC feels ineffective now, too.

Why can't this be linear? And lately it's nightmarish. How do I live with the knowledge that this person who was the best I've ever known, treated me with more care and love than anyone, could have possibly done anything remotely close to this? To me? To our child? To our family?

I am usually a carefree, fun, spirited person who loves life. I want that back. I'm devastated all over again. And she's begging me to hear her pain right now.


WS: 39
BS: 39
DS: 6
9 year relationship
DDay #1: September 6, 2013 EA for 5 weeks August 2013 with TT
DDay #2: January 2, 2014 EA for 6 weeks summer 2011 with TT
"I am still learning." -Michelangelo

Posts: 938 | Registered: Dec 2013 | From: Midwest
brkn_heartd
♀ 30396
Member # 30396
Default  Posted: 8:50 PM, August 19th (Tuesday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

First...find a new IC. If your IC is ineffective, it is time to find another one. When you have done that, find another MC. If the one you have isn't helping....get a new one. If you do not, your pain will be just as bad 2 years from now. Your wife probably needs a different IC too. You are not going down the path of a true R until you get those issues resolved. Period. The unresolved pain will drag with you and your spouse.


Me-52 BS
Him 59-WS
Married 32 yrs, together 35
Affair Aug-Dec 09
official D-12/14/09
broke NC 1/31/10
second D 3/19/10

Posts: 1918 | Registered: Dec 2010 | From: Northwesten US
peoplepleaser
♀ 41535
Member # 41535
Default  Posted: 11:40 PM, August 19th (Tuesday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Thank you for the support, brkn_heartd. I know you are right. I plan on finding a new IC as soon as I can. There are a lot if factors that make that difficult right now, including no insurance coverage.


WS: 39
BS: 39
DS: 6
9 year relationship
DDay #1: September 6, 2013 EA for 5 weeks August 2013 with TT
DDay #2: January 2, 2014 EA for 6 weeks summer 2011 with TT
"I am still learning." -Michelangelo

Posts: 938 | Registered: Dec 2013 | From: Midwest
wheredoigo
♀ 42327
Member # 42327
Default  Posted: 12:21 AM, August 20th (Wednesday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

((peoplepleaser))

I hope you don't mind if I post (I'm a WW). I could be projecting, but a lot of these things that you are saying remind me of myself last year and something tells me that I might be able to provide you some insight from the "other" side. My BH is currently trying to process his anger, but I've found that it's most helpful when I do make him feel safe enough to share his angry thoughts. He's a very kind and gentle soul, so it's nearly impossible for him to share anger towards me. I'm actually on the opposite side now, wanting him to express these emotions. We are finally moving forward rather than digressing. Why? Because I'm not hiding anything and I've found empathy.

I found them these two ways:
1. Self reflection on what lead me to my A
(both FOO and a pyramid of terrible coping techniques) This helped me realized how I was able to minimize my poor boundaries and what lead to my A's, thus realizing everything I blamed my BS for was truly my own decisions.
2. Giving my BS the entire truth and letting go of our relationship. I had to realize that he needed to know everything in order to heal. Either with or without me.

Do you think she would take a polygraph? All of these signs (after reading this post and your profile) lead me to believe that she is not telling you everything.

I was regretful at first and then remorseful. I think your WS is probably that, but I think she's lacking the empathy part.

My BH discovered my first A. After being led to SI, I read many posts and realized that, while I was remorseful, I was not empathetic to his situation. I thought that I was protecting him from further hurt by not disclosing the entire truth by not disclosing my second A (which happened before the first A he discovered).

It wasn't until I really started to take a look at what I was doing that I realized I needed to tell my BH. Otherwise, I would continue to keep him in limbo-hell, continue to destroy him further and most importantly I could never change who I was by continuing to live a lie. I knew I needed hell and that it was going to get worse before any of it had a chance to get better.

I was scared to tell the truth. Terrified, actually. I knew the damage it would cause, but the truth was that I had already done the damage. The only right thing to do was to let my BS know the entire truth so he could make the decision. It was no longer up to me. I could no longer push blame around. It was all on me.

Do you think this could possibly be why she's so quick to move along? To rugsweep it all?

Even if I'm wrong (which I very well could be--and hope so), at the very least you must explain to her that if she remotely wants you guys to move forward, you need to see empathy from her. You need her to know the pain and feel it, even if pushing past the pain has been her way of dealing with it before, this is not the case for you. The healthy way is to process it. For not only you, but for her too. You both have to process these emotions to move forward and if you are able to show yours to her, then she should know that this is progress, not attacks or steps backwards. There is no reason to be defensive. The best thing is to listen, and fully reflect on what you are telling her. The truth hurts and there are many times that a WW thinks, "that's not me! I'd never do that." Only to self-reflect and figure out that it was precisely what happened.

I truly hope that she can find her way onto SI. It's been a tremendous help in my life and truly changing the very base of who I am.

I can only hope that she will find safety here so you guys can hopefully move forward. R is such a special gift, I'd hate to see her loose the chance and it would be awful for you to have to continue to hurt.


1st marriage BS to xSAWH (36)
WW-2nd marriage (me) 34 to BS(Jt8d) 36
I will face what hurts me and my actions that have hurt myself and others rather than hiding behind fearful justifications of why I should never heal or grow.

Posts: 267 | Registered: Feb 2014 | From: Midwest
peoplepleaser
♀ 41535
Member # 41535
Default  Posted: 10:32 AM, August 20th (Wednesday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Wheredoigo, thank you so much for your post. I read your profile too. There is much in common and I'm grateful for your insight. You give me hope...and validate some if the dread I still carry.

I'll try to be simple here, because I'm interested in more of what you might share that will help. After discovering AP2 on DDay 1 I got months of TT. We read Not Just Friends and she reported understanding the damage caused by both the EA and TT. During that time I often confronted her that there was more, and at one point she openly cried saying she wished she had more to tell me so I would trust her again. And I specifically asked her about AP1 and she outright lied. Four months later I discovered AP1 on Dday2. I separated. She came back a month later promising the truth, remorse, IC, MC, and total transparency. I think I posted that I had to push for all of that, except MC. She would argue against that, citing circumstance, ignorance of technology and misunderstanding. There have been times since then that she has been totally humble and compassionate with great remorse. Getting her truth just a month ago after fighting for it was damaging. Being the one to investigate and find a way to monitor her phone was damaging. Watching her put off and drag her feet about consistent IC has been damaging. Her insistence that I meet her level of vulnerability and put my pain aside (particularly during times of intense pain) has been damaging.

The truth I fought for up to this point is still spotty. She says she can't remember what exchanges happened between them, mainly the one from three years ago now. It trickled from it was all AP, to I probably engaged, to I did engage, to remembering AP tried to kiss her once, to admitting she told her she wanted to f$&@ her but wouldn't because it was all fantasy and she loved me and wouldn't leave me. To date I was told by two sources that WS engaged in discussions about them having a life together and even initiated acts they would do, and WS says she probably did but can't remember. I find that hard to believe. I fear she did kiss AP1, if not more. I fear she attempted to meet AP2 at least once. As I understand more about the compulsion (and she's admitted that she tried to stop several times but couldn't) I fear that there is more she's hiding. She knew the day we got together that I had no tolerance for infidelity. I told her DDay1 that I would leave if she had a PA. I told her at R that I came in with the belief that there was some physical exchange. While I believe she maintained the idea she wasn't cheating as long as she didn't touch until DDay1, I fear that attempts were made. I know, even though she won't admit it, that it is extremely likely she would have had a PA (if it hadn't already happened) if she hadn't gotten caught (by OBS from first EA--I was never told the truth). At times she has agreed she was susceptible, and other times she emphatically denies she would have been capable. She also maintains that she wasn't physically attracted to or sexually excited by either of them and was disgusted the whole time but wanted/needed the attention. With first EA the texts she doesn't remember were ones in which she was asking AP1 to get rid of OBS for the weekend so she could come over and f$&@ her. Them WS said they would have to have a quickie in the closet instead since AP couldn't get rid of her (I was out of town and our friends were all getting together at their house that night). That was the night OBS found the texts and confronted them both. Who plans quickies when no other physical boundary was broken?

The lack of total disclosure (remembering?) is very difficult for me given the nature of how information has been shared up to this point. It's worse that she is focusing on sharing her perspective when I share my thoughts and feelings, changes the nuance of personal insight in a seeming effort to defend her intentions at the time, and is interjecting her thoughts and feelings about what I was capable or not capable of doing to meet her needs at those times. I distinctly fear that there is more. Every time I push I get just a little more and then she says that's everything she can remember right now but will come to me with more if are remembers. Yet, she doesn't come to me with more until I push. She has agreed several times to do a poly, except the last time, saying we shouldn't have to spend that kind of money. We don't really have the money. I would get one in a heartbeat if we did.

I also find it hard to believe that I discovered the only two that happened given her pattern of behavior and coping mechanisms. I submit that it's possible, but believe there have to have at least been near misses that she's keeping from me.

She reads SI. A few months back I was so happy and relieved that she was sharing what she learned from it. In the beginning, between DDays, she was angry about SI and blamed it for causing problems in our recovery. But, and she agreed to this, every inconvenience was related to her continued lies or inability to gain personal insight. She's read my recent threads, though, and got angry about it last night. Responses from others are attacking her without knowing her. She is accusing me of being heavily influenced in my thoughts, feelings and actions rather than respecting them as my truth. And now she's saying she won't come back. It feels the same as before again. Which, to me, reads as more defensiveness and an unwillingness to understand my thoughts and feelings while ignoring valuable experience that might help her gain some insight into her own actions and how they are both affecting me and providing constructive feedback for her.

So what do I believe? How do I move forward? I believe I have to trust my gut. It's been right all along. What can I trust? Her actions. I can't trust her word. I have little reason to at this point. Her actions tell me she's not being fully honest with me, that she's hiding something, and that she's not in a place to help me heal right now.

I will admit that I've become increasingly aggressive (angry) in my responses to her. When she says she feels the same, I get angry and tell her (at worst) that she can't possibly feel the same because I didn't phone f$&@ anyone and lie about it for three years only to do it again. In the interest of total disclosure I'm embarrassed to admit that I threw a ceramic bowl on the floor the other night when she got in my face to tell me I would feel better if I attacked her. Apparently a shard hit her leg and cut it. I reached a place in which I trusted that she would at least be able to provide some comfort, compassion, and validation for my thoughts and feelings, especially in A season. The disappointment is devastating. But beyond the disappointment is the question of why there is so much resistance. If she wants this, if she's remorseful, if she loves me, if she understands how painful the wake of her deception and level of it is, then why is she creating barriers? She claims she's defensive because I've become less mindful about how I share my thoughts and feelings. I know that my breakdown in compassion for her as I share them is a result and an indication of her failure to meet my need for support and reassurance. And she's drawn a line in the sand requiring that I need to show her some compassion so that she knows it's worth it to continue to be vulnerable.

So yes. I have plenty of reason to fear there is more I don't know. Plenty of reason to fear this won't work.

What are the odds she's telling the truth? Isn't this behavior more than an indication she's protecting herself from the pain if what I already know?


WS: 39
BS: 39
DS: 6
9 year relationship
DDay #1: September 6, 2013 EA for 5 weeks August 2013 with TT
DDay #2: January 2, 2014 EA for 6 weeks summer 2011 with TT
"I am still learning." -Michelangelo

Posts: 938 | Registered: Dec 2013 | From: Midwest
wheredoigo
♀ 42327
Member # 42327
Default  Posted: 12:59 AM, August 21st (Thursday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

To be honest, the odds are that she--just like me thinks she will loose you if you know the truth. If you've told her that you will leave her then she won't be honest. It's weird and messed up, I know.

So here's the question I think that might help you decide where you want to go from here:

Would you truly want to leave her if PA's are the case?

If you think you could even remotely consider staying (which I'm not saying you should, it's a personal choice of your own boundaries, love and happiness with her), then you provide her a week to bring every truth written in a timeline on anything you need to know that she's ever done and if she's honest then you'll be able to find some peace by having her do a polygraph. It's expensive and scary as hell, but worth every penny if you decide after the results you want to attempt R.

If she tells the truth, even though the pain is immense, you will feel a slight release together that the lies have ended, and with that the limbo-hell.

I will warn you that it will be the next step of hell and you may feel completely distant and numb, but with hard work on her part you will begin to feel like a person again.

If she continues to be angry and refuses to do a poly, I highly recommend that you protect yourself emotionally with a 180 until she gets her act together and agrees to give you safety or until you find strength to end it. Remember, 180's are not just for when you first find out, they are for your emotional protection and to bring strength and clarity for you.

I'll leave with the best advice someone gave my BS, that truly helped me: the key to her truth-telling, unfortunately is hard stuff and not fair to you, but it lies in your ability to give grace and offer her a time period to feel safe enough to tell you without worry that you are leaving her.

Feel free to ask any questions, I'm so sorry for your pain. Please ask your WS to read my profile and my past posts, maybe that will help to know I've been there and that she will never be happy until she faces herself and what is causing her to make these terrible decisions. The result of the hard work is life-altering. Everyday I wish I would of made the leap sooner than later.


1st marriage BS to xSAWH (36)
WW-2nd marriage (me) 34 to BS(Jt8d) 36
I will face what hurts me and my actions that have hurt myself and others rather than hiding behind fearful justifications of why I should never heal or grow.

Posts: 267 | Registered: Feb 2014 | From: Midwest
Blasphemist
♂ 43282
Member # 43282
Default  Posted: 2:40 AM, August 21st (Thursday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

This is our affair season too, and it just is horrible. I (WH) self-loathe on a daily basis anyways, and project on to my darling wife a hatred of me. It is ridiculous, because that lack of communication is part of what landed me here in the first place. Not trusting my wife enough to be able to handle how broken I was, and not reaching out to her, and only her, for help when I needed it most. It's the second most awful feeling in the world, and it replays even stronger now. I don't know what tomorrow will bring, but what I have to do is be there, be supportive, and put my "self" aside. I made my "self" front and center a year ago, and that can't happen again.
Communication still isn't easy, and I'm still learning how to empathize and think "how does this affect my wife" before everything. EVERYTHING. Our relationship depends on that, and reconciling is something I very very much want. But I need her to be happy, and I'm willing to accept the consequences of my actions.

Posts: 11 | Registered: Apr 2014 | From: PNW
sisoon
♂ 31240
Member # 31240
Default  Posted: 9:34 AM, August 21st (Thursday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I think wheredoigo raised a valid point.

You probably won't get your WS to come clean unless it becomes a true requirement.

But you don't know what she will say, and you don't know how you'll respond. Guaranteeing to stay could trap you.

My own way was to emphasize that if my W lied, our M was over, but if she came clean, there was a chance I would choose to stay.

One reason your WS is holding out could be that she wants to avoid dealing with the mess she made - and the mess is. I just don't see what you can do about that other than live with it (rugsweep - please don't do that to yourself) or issue an ultimatum.

Another is that she's afraid of how you'll respond. She shouldn't be, but if she is, giving her hope, but not a blank check, could get her to open up.

I hate to see you in misery, pp. Unfortunately, only you can take the action needed to get you to a better place.


fBH (me) - 70 (22 in my head), fWW (plainsong) - 70 (22 in my head), Married 45+, together since 1965, same sex ap
DDay - 12/22/2010
Recover'd and R'ed
I'm not an exemplar. I share my own experience because it's all I know.

Posts: 11972 | Registered: Feb 2011 | From: Chicago area
peoplepleaser
♀ 41535
Member # 41535
Default  Posted: 10:07 AM, August 21st (Thursday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Yeah. So after a year and multiple opportunities to come clean, it seems the consensus is that forgetting is not believable, the defensiveness slowly rearing it's ugly head from time to time is a bad sign, and her continued TT (that she denies
as TT, calling it "remembering") is likely what it feels like--just enough to appease me.

I hate this. So much. I love her. She really is a wonderful person with a huge heart who wants the best for others. It's do very heartbreaking that she thinks she knows better what I need to heal and what we need to survive as a couple. That facing her worst is more fearful than losing me because she can't be genuine. I can't move, focus, care about what I should be doing...nothing. At least I'm nowhere close to suicidal. Just a blob. Feeling stupid all over again.

I called our local poly service this morning to get a price. Waiting for the return call. Hate to spend that much money, but when you are in love with a liar what else can you do?


WS: 39
BS: 39
DS: 6
9 year relationship
DDay #1: September 6, 2013 EA for 5 weeks August 2013 with TT
DDay #2: January 2, 2014 EA for 6 weeks summer 2011 with TT
"I am still learning." -Michelangelo

Posts: 938 | Registered: Dec 2013 | From: Midwest
sisoon
♂ 31240
Member # 31240
Default  Posted: 11:27 AM, August 21st (Thursday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Feeling stupid all over again.

Call your IC. You're not in touch with reality.

...when you are in love with a liar what else can you do?

You can require that she change or lose you. Offer support, but if she's unwilling to do the work of becoming honest, why subject yourself to a life of not knowing what's going on?

That's obviously my opinion. Sometimes I think I'm as hooked on my W as Emil Jannings was on Dietrich in The Blue Angel; maybe you're that hooked on your WS.

Please, though, please talk with your IC - someone - about your unwillingness to make lack of honesty a deal breaker.


fBH (me) - 70 (22 in my head), fWW (plainsong) - 70 (22 in my head), Married 45+, together since 1965, same sex ap
DDay - 12/22/2010
Recover'd and R'ed
I'm not an exemplar. I share my own experience because it's all I know.

Posts: 11972 | Registered: Feb 2011 | From: Chicago area
peoplepleaser
♀ 41535
Member # 41535
Default  Posted: 11:48 AM, August 21st (Thursday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Oh no, sisoon. Is that what's happening? I'm rugsweeping (with the influence of our MC and WS) and ignoring that she's not being honest? I'm sure it's because I want desperately to believe her. Maybe because I can't take much more pain. And I want every reason to stay. It is likely I will leave, because it is likely I will not be able to live with myself if I stayed with someone who started, lied, strayed again, lied five more times and then revealed physical betrayal later. But I know in the long run the pain will be much much worse when the truth is finally fully out there.

And it turns out a ploy isn't as expensive as I thought. We will be scheduling that in the next two weeks. Regardless of what she decides to disclose between then and now, the poly is now a necessity.

Send thoughts if emotional strength and personal empowerment my way. I have a string feeling I'm about to shatter into a million pieces.

Thank you for your support.


WS: 39
BS: 39
DS: 6
9 year relationship
DDay #1: September 6, 2013 EA for 5 weeks August 2013 with TT
DDay #2: January 2, 2014 EA for 6 weeks summer 2011 with TT
"I am still learning." -Michelangelo

Posts: 938 | Registered: Dec 2013 | From: Midwest
sisoon
♂ 31240
Member # 31240
Default  Posted: 2:56 PM, August 21st (Thursday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

But I know in the long run the pain will be much much worse when the truth is finally fully out there.

Very gently, you don't know that. I think this is just fear taking over.

The truth may be as bad as you think. I guess it could be worse, too, but it could also be not as bad as you fear. More important, I think you'll find that in some important ways you already feel as bad as you can feel. And I think you'll feel some real relief once you pin your WS down to choose lies or honesty.

And if she chooses honesty, you both come out big winners.

My thinking is that not forcing your WS to choose keeps you feeling awful, but if you force her to choose, there's a possibility of feeling great - either with her, if she becomes honest, or without her (and perhaps with someone else) if she continues to lie.

One member has a tagline that goes something like, 'The truth may hurt, but not as bad as the lies.'

(BTW, I think you know this, but I hope your WS chooses honesty - for her sake and for yours.)


fBH (me) - 70 (22 in my head), fWW (plainsong) - 70 (22 in my head), Married 45+, together since 1965, same sex ap
DDay - 12/22/2010
Recover'd and R'ed
I'm not an exemplar. I share my own experience because it's all I know.

Posts: 11972 | Registered: Feb 2011 | From: Chicago area
Topic Posts: 28
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