I've never had patience to rely on others. I'm a combat veteran, I like controlling what I can in my life. The first timeiI got married I informed the man I was marrying his daughter. Over the years I've had a tingle of guilt about that. I wanted to do things the right way.
I asked him and he said no. He said I already made a mockery of marriage once and I'm not Christian Enough. I asked him how many men his wife had brought to their bed? I forgave her twice before Ithrew her out. I told him he was lucky he never had to deal with infidelity. I told him I was a great husband and will be again.
I drove across two states to talk to him face to face, and now I'm on my way back home and don't know what my next move is. Only a few times in my life have I not known my next move.
What an ignorant reaction. I hope this doesn't cause you to change course, if your GF is the right match for you then her father's opinion is irrelevant. But I'm so sorry that he acted in this way. My understanding of Christianity is that it involves love and forgiveness for our fellow humans, NOT judgement or self-righteousness.
He said I already made a mockery of marriage once and I'm not Christian Enough.
This sounds very judgemental to me.
Yes, he is entitled to his opinion but this sounds really holier than thou and not very Christian.
Don't keep dancing with the Devil and wonder why you are still in Hell.
It's all shits and giggles until someone giggles and shits.
Will his opinion matter to your GF?
“The most difficult times for many of us are the ones we give ourselves.”
― Pema Chödrön
"Mom, does Sam have to ask Dad if he marries me?"
I said "No, that is an antiquated custom dating back to when women had no rights and were thought of as possessions. Men asked the father for permission because she was her father's property and if permission was given, she would become her husband's property. The woman was left completely out of the loop like her opinion didn't matter. There is no way I would raise my daughters that way, so, no, Sam does not have to ask your father's permission. He has to ask yours. And only you have a say in whether or not you marry him, as it should be."
I'm not sure where it says in the Bible that a woman shouldn't have a say in her own marriage but that custom of asking someone else for permission to marry needs to go.
I'm sorry that he acted in such a manner. Daughters aren't chattel and a woman needs no one's "permission" to marry. Although your "asking for her hand in marriage" is a nice tradition, it really doesn't amount to a hill of beans.
You say you don't know your next move? This:
I told him I was a great husband and will be again.
Be polite to your soon to be father in law when you next see him, and remember that although his approval would have been nice, he can go suck eggs.
[This message edited by better4me at 1:32 PM, August 18th (Monday)]
Did she know you were asking her father?
Had you asked her already?
How does she think you should proceed?
Did you have a plan, together, for how you would proceed, if the wild card did not play as you'd hoped?
My inclination is that Dad doesn't get a vote--and that your daughter can navigate her relationship with him on this topic. But you did invite him into the decision-making process, which does complicate things.
If you proceed, I'd suggest that she tell him--with you present, so there's a united front, "Dad, I respect and love you, but I am marrying Run. He's a good man and I love him."
I don't know what "Christian enough" means, but I do know that one of the top Ten Commandments is Thou Shalt Not Commit Adultery, and that adultery is one of the church-sanctioned causes for divorce. So he doesn't really have a Christian leg to stand on, there.
[This message edited by solus sto at 4:41 PM, August 18th (Monday)]
Can I have your daughter for the rest of my life? (Say yes, say yes)
'Cause I need to know
You say I'll never get your blessing till the day I die
Tough luck my friend but no still means no!
Why you gotta be so rude?
Don't you know I'm human too
Why you gotta be so rude
I'm gonna marry her anyway
(excerpt from Rude by Magic)
[This message edited by gonnabe2016 at 2:40 AM, August 19th (Tuesday)]
In my effort to be *concise*, I often come off as blunt and harsh. Sorry, don't mean to be offensive.
That said, this is her father. You want to spend holidays with this family? You don't marry in a vacumm - he just gave you a glimpse at one aspect of your future with this woman you may have overlooked. Tread carefully
So while I don't know what "not Christian enough" means (I go to church very often and believe, does that count?), I know (because I talked to the men's pastor at my church and there were sermons about it at our church) that infidelity (and Satanism) are the only two reasons for which "til death do us part" is justified in ending. The actual quote from our pastor (at sermon) is (and he said it loudly) "if your spouse was unfaithful to you you are under no obligation to take them back"
So actually a mockery of marriage would have been to stay with an un-remorseful adulteress.
You may want to bring this up to your father in law. If he's going to be legalistic enough to call you a "not Christian enough", he will then agree with:
Proverbs 5 (the whole thing)
Proverbs 6:24-35 (which actually compares prostitutes favorably to WWs, in that at least a hooker can be had for some money, but an adulteress wife "preys upon your very life"
Matthew 5:31 (which specifically adds "except on the ground of sexual immorality".
I could go on.
But diplomatically speaking,
It is very important to know when you're in a pissing match. And it's very important to get out of it as quickly as possible.
So you may want to talk to the pastor at his church (maybe go with your GF, to introduce yourself). He will likely set him straight. Better yet, consider marrying it at his (and your GF's?) church, or at least going through a marriage prep course there. The pastor will love you for attempting to do the right thing, and if he's such a "good Christian" as he says, the pastor will have a couple chats with him and cool him down.
If he brings up forgiveness, point him to "The Gift of Forgiveness", by Charles Stanley. It deftly and with scripture outlines the difference between forgiving and staying in a toxic environment. It's all on the true remorsefulness of the person who hurt you. You can forgive and still divorce. And he could use a bit of forgiveness himself.
He's just protecting what he considers his turf IMO. Christianity has nothing to do with it, and you both are free to marry each other.
Please don't let goons like this give you a bad view on Christianity. They give me the willies too.
[This message edited by GotPlayed at 12:30 PM, August 19th, 2014 (Tuesday)]
If I were your girlfriend (beyond being upset that he would say that to you period) I would be offended for *me*.
In the vain of what TearsofLove said -- My XWH asked my father for "permission" to marry me. Neither of my parents liked XWH (actually they pretty much hated him) -- but his response was "I raised my girls to think for themselves, and exercise good judgment. You don't need my permission, you just need her agreement."
That is the attitude of a parent that trust their child. My parents were upfront with my about not being fond of my EX, but they would never have presumed to not give their "permission" - since it wasn't there's to give.
Me - 36 BS
Him - doesn't matter
FYI, there are some churches who teach that divorce is never allowed, no matter what. No matter if there is infidelity, no matter if there is abuse. No divorce.
It's also going to be a hard sell if her parents have a history of infidelity and are the rug-sweeping sort where remorse isn't a requirement for reconciliation.
It would be better to stay true to your own values and reevaluate if her father's permission is necessary for you to move forward with your bride to be. If asking permission was just a nice gesture/courtesy, then proceed as you will.
I'm not Christian Enough.
Wow just Wow!! I think my response might have been - Right back atcha Dad!