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formerprincess posted 8/19/2014 15:37 PM

I cannot believe that I am here...our two month DDay will be tomorrow. He has been friends with the OW since she began planning their 30th HS reunion a few years ago. I would not call it an EA because it was all one-sided (hers)...he never was emotional with her or even talked about me or our relationship...which I thought was "almost perfect". They texted off & on for those years...mostly nothing, just to say hello...there was about a year when they were not even in contact. Then about last December, he happens to run into her because she is an RN at the clinic that he goes to...they again exchange info. In February they correspond more frequently...and I am knee-deep in planning a fundraiser which consumes a lot of my time. Then you guessed it...the friendship turned into "friends with benefits" in March (he was in a vulnerable place, plus alcohol & she was so very willing to be there with him)...they never had intercourse (he said he could not cross that line), but I still think that oral sex is just as bad. It only happened three times within those two months, but that is three times too much for me. He went to her to specifically end the PA on May 18th and was going to wait until our younger son left for college to confess to me...but I found a text she wrote him on June 20 and BLINDSIDE...we talked all night and all during our week at a pre-planned beach vacation...he called her on the 25th to tell her about NC (This was before I knew about this forum or I would have asked to be there.) and has not contacted her since. He is extremely remorseful and wishes he could take it all back...but of course he cannot, so I am here. I did feel like his princess (he spoiled me & our boys), but now I feel like such a fool. He is being very forthcoming with info...we have not been to a MC yet, but are thinking about one of those retreats for this fall. I have not told anyone because I really do not want anyone to think less of him...or me. So sorry for the length, but I feel like I am safe here...thanks for listening...

momentintime posted 8/19/2014 15:50 PM

It is so sad the damage from infidelity. The truly remorseful ones wish they could take it back. However, as we all know one time or years of cheating, causes such destruction to our self-esteem, sense of security, our loss of feeling in a special R.

You can recovery and rebuild but it is a hard and painful road. Only way is through it, because you never forget it. The pain diminishes over time, you may forgive, but it will be with you the rest of your lives.

[This message edited by momentintime at 3:51 PM, August 19th (Tuesday)]

fromthisdayfwd posted 8/19/2014 16:06 PM

formerprincess ~

You are still a Princess!

His actions do not in any way lessen YOUR VALUE. He wasn't recognizing your value and not respecting you. That is ON HIM.

So very sorry you are here.

IMO oral sex is no less of a betrayal. It may be different ... but in many ways is just as personal and intimate as intercourse.

I can barely give oral sex to my husband anymore because he accepted it from the OW. It makes the 'mind movies' start every time ... and we are 4 years out from Dday.

I am glad your husband seems to be remorseful and wants to reconcile. Maybe he really made a mistake and needs to work on boundaries.

Lots of good resources are out there. Healing Library here, too. (top left of your screen)

You mentioned a retreat.... here are two I know of that help people. and Marriage Today also has a retreat. I am sure you will find their website easily. They are both faith based organizations.

My husband and I went to Retrouvaille and it was very worthwhile. We are still actively involved in the community for over two years; very helpful to be keeping ourselves accountable.

I pray you and your husband find your way.

Gman1 posted 8/19/2014 19:48 PM

I too am sorry you are here. Your story reminds me much of my own and it is true that every marriage could be susceptible to an A. We were very happy and living the so called American dream and she was my princess who wanted for nothing. And yet she turned to another as well.

Please realize that this same scenario affects almost half of all marriages today. It seems like you are all alone but everyone here has been through something very similar to you. You must realize it's not your fault nor is it your secret or burden to carry. You need to find a close friend to talk to about your pain. I wanted to keep it a secret too but I finally told a few people and it helped immensely.

formerprincess posted 8/19/2014 21:17 PM

Thank all of you for your words of wisdom...I know that we have a long way to go on our recovery journey. I forgot to mention that we have been married for 30 years (met & married in college) and have been separated many times due to his job in the military (TDY's, overseas assignments & deployments) and not once was I ever worried about him during that time...that is why this A is such a puzzle to me? It is almost as if this was a "perfect storm"...he was feeling his age, I was probably neglectful and the OW was right there waiting to pounce. Do not get me wrong, I hold him fully responsible for not being strong enough to pull away, but I still view her as being the predator...she did all of the initiating. On a lighter note, I love your quote, momentintime...when I reread my own post, I found two errors which I wish I could change! Thank you for calling me a princess and for the retreat info, fromthisdayfwd...I will look into both of them! I have thought about talking to one of my sisters or friends, gman1...but I really don't think I can yet...maybe I will talk to an IC soon. Thanks again...I do not feel so alone...

ShiningAutumn8 posted 8/19/2014 23:42 PM

It really sucks that victims of infidelity so often keep everything a secret for fear it reflects bad on their own.value as a person. You should not fear for what people think of you. A true friend would support you. Oftentimes people are so caught up in projecting an image of perfection (ie the "perfect couple", the "envy of all our friends") that they isolate themselves. No marriage or relationship is perfect.

Im glad your husband is remorseful. Please be wary of some things:

1. Do not be so quick to come up yourself with his "reasons" or vulnerabilities that led to the affair. That is his job and likely will take alot of digging. Dont fall into the trap of handing him answers or rationales on a platter

2. Be very wary of Trickle Truth. Rarely does a spoyse get the full truth initially. Personally I highly doubt he planned to reveal the A to you when your son left. I just dont buy it. Nor do I buy the no intercourse bit (esp since they met a minimum of 3 times.

3. Has he given you access to all their texts, emails, etc so you can verify his story? Id insist on that, as well as a polygraph. Review detailed call logs too to see if they support his story.

3. Is she married? If so Id tell her spouse.

Im sorry you are hurting. It is truly amazing how a person can do this to another.

NeverAgain2013 posted 8/20/2014 08:06 AM

ShiningAutumn has hit the nail on the head with:

Do not be so quick to come up yourself with his "reasons" or vulnerabilities that led to the affair. That is his job and likely will take alot of digging. Dont fall into the trap of handing him answers or rationales on a platter

2. Be very wary of Trickle Truth. Rarely does a spoyse get the full truth initially. Personally I highly doubt he planned to reveal the A to you when your son left. I just dont buy it. Nor do I buy the no intercourse bit (esp since they met a minimum of 3 times.

I absolutely agree. Don't fall into the trap of making him the 'victim' and the OW the aggressor; very, very rarely is that actually the case. You're giving him all kinds of excuses for a crappy decision HE made - from booze to her being "way too willing." Her willingness is really not an issue - it's his willingness to cross the line whether she was willing or not that you really need to look at. Just read around here for a day and you'll see that just about every cheating husband makes the exact same claim - that he was the innocent lamb being led to slaughter and the OW was the aggressor.

I also agree with ShiningAutumn that I don't believe it stopped at oral sex. One thing you'll come to find out is that cheaters LIE and MINIMIZE. They water down the truth as much as they can in order to make their behavior appear less involved than it really was. If he can claim he 'only' had oral sex instead of full blown sexual intercourse, then he's going to do JUST that. It's simply a cheater creed. Just guard your heart because down the road, you may learn more of the truth as it trickles out.

I like ShiningAutumn's suggestion about a polygraph - suggest one and watch him squirm.

Lastly, if this woman is married or coupled up, you need to tell her husband/SO. Just because it's the right thing to do and he deserves to know his reality as much as you did.

Good luck to you, formerprincess. I'm sorry you find yourself here.

[This message edited by NeverAgain2013 at 8:12 AM, August 20th (Wednesday)]

formerprincess posted 8/20/2014 08:07 AM

Thanks so much for your advice, shiningautumn8...I will take everything under consideration. I do believe that all most my friends would be supportive if I told them about the A, but since we are trying to R I would rather have the advice of someone who can be objective. As for your other thoughts...
1. I actually have not mentioned to him that I thought he was vulnerable...that is my assessment of the A.
2. He has been good about answering all of my questions...I believe that he has been honest...I think that the reason that he wanted to wait until our DS left for college was so that we could talk without our DS hearing and without interruption. It has been difficult talking sometimes, because our conversations get cut off or put off until later when we are alone. Why would you find it hard to believe that there would be no sexual intercourse...even just being together only three times? Like I wrote earlier, I think that this was more of a FWB relationship instead of an EA/PA one. I do think that the OW wanted more, but WH could not cross into a full sexual relationship.
3. Unfortunately, he has not or has ever kept any emails or texts (WH always deleted emails or texts right after he read them...he never kept anything to reread because it was not that type of relationship for him)...I am going by how & what WH says and my gut/instinct...after 30 years of marriage, I would like to think that I know his him well enough. During the A, I was not paying attention...I knew that he was drinking heavily (& there were other signs), but I was too busy at the time to think about why so much alcohol. I do have full access to his phones, email accounts and computer now. He has given me her info in case I would like to contact her to verify his side of the A.I am considering it.
4. The OW is recently divorced...this was one of the reasons for their friendship...I think that she used him as male point of view for her crumbling M, them wanted more from WH when her M was over...WH did not talk to her about me or our M, so OW probably had no idea that our M was a good one.
Again, thank for your insight...I probably need someone like you so that I remember to "second guess" what WH tells me...although I am not nave or innocent as I once was...unfortunately that girl is lost forever...

ShiningAutumn8 posted 8/20/2014 08:43 AM

The reason I don't think he would have told you about the A on his own, is because: why would he? think about it, he is doing this in secret from you. Its an AFFAIR. So very very rarely do spouses just come clean. He may have thought in his head "I will tell her"...but when it came down to it, dollars to donuts he probably would've "just not been able to bring himself to tell you". Why would he voluntarily devastate you, possibly destroy his marriage, risk divorce and ostrization by his entire family -- when he could easily just keep quiet. No one will ever know if he would've told you had you not discovered, but his claim really does not sit well with me. He's either fooling himself, or you, or both.

As for not believing they didn't have intercourse, well that's what adults do - they have intercourse. Especially when its a long term affair with multiple encounters. When youre in the moment, hot and heavy, plus throw in the taboo nature, the attraction -- c'mon, adults are gonna do the deed. Again, no one will ever know (altho him taking a polygraph would really give you more insight). But its very unlikely that 2 consenting adults with a mutual physical attraction, and multiple opportunities, would have the wherewithal to stop short of intercourse. His boundaries weren't in place during this affair, what makes you think he'd somehow miraculously keep the "intercourse boundary" when all others had been blazenly broken?

Its hard b/c we WANT to believe these things, b/c they help us process and accept and forgive and reconciles. but I feel if you don't press for the hard answers and make sure what he's feeding you is really plausible, then down the road the reconciliation may not go as well as hoped.

Have you personally gone through all his email folders? Often there are emails that were missed in the deleting sprees. Id also carefully review detailed cell logs to get a picture of when the communication started, and how often. Finally, Id tell him that you would like him to take a polygraph. One of the questions would be did you have intercourse. Then follow through and do it.

Finally, I wouldn't bother talking with the OW. She probably knows his "story" and has been told to match hers up to it. Plus it will probably bring you pain b/c she will not be looking out for your interest (obviously).

[This message edited by ShiningAutumn8 at 8:46 AM, August 20th (Wednesday)]

formerprincess posted 8/20/2014 09:20 AM

Thanks for your insight, neveragain2013...but believe me, I am not making excused for WH...nor is he making excuses for himself. He beats himself up over this A daily, is truly remorseful and is supportive of my healing from his stupidity. WH knows he was entirely in the wrong, but it was OW that asked him over, sat right next to him, leaned into kiss him, groped him and then began the OS...he was stunned and then too weak (not physically, but as a man) to pull away...and then the fog kicks in for two more occurrences...he awoke to end it, but will have to live with the fallout forever. Thanks for posting again, shiningautumn8...I will definitely ask WH for a polygraph. But I still believe it was a FWB not an EA/PA...they only met three times, the fourth time was when he ended the physical part. And he was not attracted to her face or her was her happy personality which was the attraction for him, plus the fact that she had a willing (excuse me for being so blunt) mouth. He was and still is very much attracted to me (all of me), but during those weeks I was just not there for him (no excuse, I know!). I believe that the "intercourse boundary" was absolutely the last line...WH knew that I probably would have found that unforgivable and he never, ever in the thickest fog wanted to lose me. I do not believe that he could have kept this to himself forever because it would have eaten him up inside, plus I think I would have eventually seen that something was very wrong with him (the excessive drinking).

[This message edited by formerprincess at 9:30 AM, August 20th (Wednesday)]

ShiningAutumn8 posted 8/20/2014 10:15 AM

Im sorry but I just don't buy all the lines he is feeding you. You are taking what he tells you and accepting it as fact, as if you have somehow verified it. For example: He didn't talk about you or the marriage; she asked him out; she initiated all physical contact; he wasn't attracted to her physically...etc etc

The problem is, he is now proven to be a liar. That we know without a doubt. So I feel it is unwise of you to accept at complete face value all these things he is telling you as 100% true. I really fear this will come back to bite you. There will be more discovery, more trickle truth. Unless of course you just ignore the issues and "rug sweep".

Gently, it was not a "fog" that caused him to go back 2 more times (so he says, altho I suspect more). That was a conscious choice on his behalf. He was not possessed by aliens. Hell, he didn't even have feeling for her - usually the "IN LOVE" feelings creates the "fog". No -- he did this on his own accord.

I really do not mean to be harsh on you, I just want you to perhaps see things objectively and without he veil of SO wanting to believe your husband is a better man that perhaps his true actions would indicate.

Keep digging. Keep questioning. Do not believe anything he says until he can somehow show you evidence and you can confirm some of these things.

lovesobroken posted 8/20/2014 10:46 AM

Every decision he made was planned and totally his. He has to own it. One thing that happens when this kind of this thing happens to you is that its hard to see past the emotions, we have all been there. SI helps to get a logical perspective and more true picture of the A. I would question everything and ask him to provide proof that it was only oral sex (this is very common here BTW, claiming only oral sex happened). Talk to the OW if you wish and suggest polygraph for sure.

cantbelieve posted 8/20/2014 10:55 AM

I too, find it hard to believe that he stopped himself. He just can't bring himself to tell you. There is also a good chance that there is a lot more to the A. When I confronted my FWS, he told me it was just 3 or 4 out of town trips. It took another 6 months of TT and continuing the A for me to confront him again only to find out it lasted 4 years.

Just don't be so easy to believe that he has told you everything. He's seen what pain he has caused and doesn't want to make it worse.

ShiningAutumn8 posted 8/20/2014 10:57 AM

Also, I want to make sure you know Im not saying recocilliation is a bad idea or futile. My point is that in order to truly recover you need to demand more honesty and the complete truth. Id tell him you dont at all believe the shpiel he is giving you, and demand he be completely fortright if he wants to recocile. Tell him you deserve 100% truth - not the watered down, sugar coated version he's feeding you now, no matter how painful that truth is.

I am certain there is more he is not telling you. He is painting this affair in the nicest colors possible to minimize fallout. His story is straight from the "cheaters handbook", dont fall for it if you are truly wanting to recover from this.

lovesobroken posted 8/20/2014 11:11 AM

Also very gently when you say you've know him for thirty years and you trust his words because you know him, please realize that the man you knew probably wouldn't have had the A in the first place. This is a different man. (()) I guess we just want you to go into self preservation mode here.

confused615 posted 8/20/2014 11:23 AM

You want to believe him because he is your husband. You have loved and trusted him for 30 years. We understand that.

But this man has shown you he is not who you thought he was...he has shown you he is capable of great deception and cruelty.

An affair is an act of abuse. And this is/was an affair. He may not have loved her, but she was filling an emotional need in him. And oral sex is a PA. There is no such thing as a FWB when you are's called cheating.

Have you been tested for STD's? Has he? This needs to be done asap.

The OW is at fault for her part..but she never would have been an issue had your WH not allowed her to be.

I think you should call her exhusband. Your husband and his wife were engaged in an affair during the time they were married, and it lead to a divorce. Im wondering if he has information/evidence that could give you a much more accurate view as to what really happened between your WH and OW. But don't bother contacting OW. Your WH has already talked to her..she knows it's possible you will call..and they have decided together what you deserve to know. It would be a waste of time. Contact her exhusband..THAT would benefit you.

He deleted everything? No worry. There are many programs available to help you get deleted texts and emails. Ask him for his phone. Then put it somewhere safe, and don't tell him where it is. Tell him you're going to run a program on it to retrieve all deleted texts,pics, and emails. He will flip out on you..because he knows you are about to discover the truth.

I also don't believe they didn't have sex. Many WS's have told their BS *that* is a line they wouldn't cross. And it's almost always a lie.

You deserve to know what has happened in your marriage. A polygraph would help you with this.

Gman1 posted 8/20/2014 11:34 AM

Please understand that the vast majority of BS's have been lied to or TT'd or both. Infidelity changes everything. Before the A, we all believed all was good and it was an impossibility that our spouse could ever even consider betraying us must less carry out the dirty deed. Our situations are very similar and you used the very words in your post "Perfect Storm" that our MC used when describing to me how and why my WW had her EA/PA.

It is possible that your WH was going to tell you about the A. It could have been that he could not stand the guilt and would have eventually told you. My WW did confess to me and I had no idea. I was glad that she did but the fact is that it is a rare occurrence for a WS to confess on their own. Also, it is possible that he did not have full blown intercourse with her. Maybe he did realize it was wrong and did not cross that bridge. But to me, this is highly unlikely although a possibility. Many WS's only admit to kissing their APs and then weeks or months later they TT and the truth comes out that they were getting it on five times a week in a parked car or a break room at work like two high school kids in heat.

Just be wary of what he says right now. I would suggest asking him questions and getting his response. Then maybe a week later ask the same question slightly re-phrased. If you get the same answers consistently he is most likely telling the truth. Unfortunately, there is likely more to the story than you know right now.

lovesobroken posted 8/20/2014 11:59 AM

I like the idea of talking to her ex husband too. But in case you talk to the OW, please play your WH against her, you will get more out of it then. Tell her that your WH said she was the aggressor for example. But the confidence with which he said that you could speak to her made me think that they've preplanned what to say. Its also scary what he was going to tell you afyrt your child left. What if he wanted a D then? Maybe that's what they decided and he's lying low. Just don't be caught off guard.

ShiningAutumn8 posted 8/20/2014 12:16 PM

In re-reading the initial timeline you presented, my concern is that it is very likely this affair actually started back when the reunion happened. Please accept that is a possibility. It is also very possible that if such was the case, the A could have contributed to her divorce. I also suggest you contact her ExH and ask him if he knows anything.

Also, how do you know he ended it on May 18th? Did you see evidence or emails of this? Or is this just what he tells you? Did you review call logs to see if the contact stopped. My concern is if he "ended it", why was she texting him a month later in June?

Finally, you mention he "beats himself up over the A daily". My question is this: in the days and weeks proceeding your discovery, how was he? Was he anxious, tormented, sleepless, not eating, crying? Or was he fine? Reason being, oftentimes it is not until the A is discovered that the cheating spouse is all of a sudden consumed with guilt and devastation at what they have done. That doesn't sit right with me, as clearly they were getting along just fine before discovery.

Please keep reading and educating yourself on infidelity, and please know there is nothing YOU DID to cause this!!

formerprincess posted 8/20/2014 12:53 PM

Whew...I leave for an hour and see y'all have been busy! I thank all of you for your time in posting your views, advice and thoughts about my WH...I will take everything in consideration.

First let me clarify: the OW was already separated when she & WH were not in contact, she divorced last year...maybe she wanted a new relationship with WH?

The polygraph is a definite would definitely alleviate any question of everything WH has told me. Yes, we have both been tested and cleared of STDs.

Great point on the "fog" since WH was not in love with the OW...that might have been a slip on my part...was not sure what to call that time period, so I mistakenly call it that.

His main reason for the A during our "talks" was that "he felt like he was doing everything and I was treating him like a second-class citizen". Even though this would and should not condone or excuse his behavior, he probably has a point. My username is apt...I am really spoiled by him...he does give me everything I could ever want and I never have to lift a finger unless I want to do so. Of course, I would give everything back if I could erase these last few months.

Divorce has never been an issue with him...the one thing he keeps repeating is that he cannot lose me and the life we have built together these 30 years. Plus the boys and I have been his life (until this year)...should I discount all of those great years together?

He and the OW are not "plotting", he does not love her and has not contacted her since he called her on June 25 to end everything and issue NC with OW. No emails, no texts and I can keep "watch" on WH at work through his secretary and staff...even though none of them are aware of's probably more honest that way. The easiest thing WH did was to end it with the OW, the hardest part for him was to see the pain he put me in and the look that I give him now whenever our eyes meet. I can see the pain in his eyes, too...ironically he has aged visibly during these past months...and I look the same (friends have always called me his trophy wife even though I am his first and only wife).

We are definitely working towards a reconciliation. I am sure that everyone thinks I am a "Pollyanna" and there is some truth to that, but I believe in the good of every person...and I believe in the good in my hubby who, except for this aberration, has been wonderful to me for 30 years.

But keep it coming...there are always questions that I can ask him...BTW, all of you would make great private investigators...

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