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PenitentMan posted 8/28/2014 09:53 AM

I'm not sure what to do with myself. BW told me last night our M feels like it always has and I may be doing all this internal work and introspection, but to her I seem like the same person and no different. She said she doesn't think we work as a couple, and we have nothing in common, we haven't had sex in over a week, she's been depressed, doesn't initiate conversation with me, plays on facebook and other mindless things. When I suggest doing something together she says she doesn't *want* to do anything with me. I told her that all I can do is tell her how I feel and keeping saying how sorry I am. She said "well, that's not making it better"

It's hard living our lives when we're waiting for the other shoe to drop, and now with our anniversary in a couple days, the other shoe is being waved around. One minute she's telling me what restaurants she wouldn't mind me taking her to, and the next she's asking me if she should move out and how she might just go out by herself that day. She says she was willing to work on things and really forgave me the first time. Now, the second time she feels "I killed it" and she doesn't love me.

I don't know how to get this rollercoaster to go back up again. Each time it goes down I wonder if this is the end. She says she's been increasingly depressed about us and she doesn't want to feel like she's leading me on by staying together.

All this is completely understandable and I know I'm the one who caused all this. I did what I could. I gently told her that if she's "checked out" then there's nothing I can really do, but if there's anything left at all of her feelings for me (I pointed out that she sometimes slips and calls me dear, and other things), that she should stay and let time work its magic and maybe someday she might want to do things together and have date nights etc.

If she needs to detach, I understand that it's for her own sanity. If I truly killed it and it will never get better, then I want her to be happy even if it's without me, and I told her as much. I told her I guess I wouldn't make any restaurant reservations - if she decides she wants to go out with me, we can do so spontaneously, and if she doesn't that's fine too.

I wouldn't go so far as to say I'm having a self-pity party, but I'm definitely sad. It's hard to be cheerful in the face of all this. I wish there was something more I could do for her and for us.
It feels out of my hands, and yet, the things she says makes it seem like I should be doing more.
I'm not sure what though. She thinks our son isn't getting enough exercise and I need to do something with him that has exercise. He doesn't want to sign up for any sports. He does like laser tag, but that's not exactly a lot of exercise, plus that can get expensive.

Our son feels like he doesn't have any friends either and our depression has definitely rubbed off on him. I thought about getting him horseback riding lessons but that doesn't seem like much exercise and I'm not sure he'd be into that. He mentioned archery at one point, but again, that doesn't seem like much exercise.

He hates going for walks and bike rides. He is currently taking drum lessons that I bring him to once a week, and he's not at the level where it would be nearly enough exercise either.

I feel guilty when I play video games or do anything for me that's relaxing. We played rocksmith together for a while, but not lately.

I don't know if she means the things she's said, or if it's just a temporary down on the coaster, or if it's our anniversary in a couple days that's really making it hit home for her lately. Her biggest trigger is me, so I try to give her space. But that doesn't feel like I'm working on anything either, just avoiding each other and making it worse.

We both haven't been sleeping well. A lot of tossing and turning. I still waved goodbye when she left for work and she waved to me.

All I have is my son. I'm here. I'm posting. I'm reading. I'm practicing mindfulness and active listening and being responsible without expecting a pat on the back each time. But it doesn't seem like enough. What am I missing?

I know I'm not responsible for her feelings. I've been working real hard on letting go of the outcome. But it doesn't seem like it. Not from this post anyway. But I'm being honest. These are my feelings and worries.

What do I do? When she gets home, should I already be on the couch? Is she waiting for *me* to say, ok, fine, you're right, lets separate? Because that's not what I want and I'm not going to say it. Is that just me avoiding conflict if I'm the one that waits? Do I just go about my day as though she never said these things to me? Do I say "Hi, how was your day?" when she gets home and climb into our master bed like everything is going to be fine?

This, like, all my other vents, is pointless, doesn't resolve anything and just makes me look like I don't really get the depths of her pain and I'm not remorseful.

She admits that we know each other better than anyone, but says maybe we're just meant to be friends.

I feel very much alone these days though I know I'm in good company here. I told her I know it takes years to heal from what I've done and that I'm willing to do whatever it takes for as long as it takes.

This post is all over the place. I could just delete this. Just having a hard time. So what do I want? Reassurance? A kind word? Someone to say, hang in there? Is that being selfish?

My heart hurts. Her heart hurts. We're all hurting.

[This message edited by SelfishHusband at 9:54 AM, August 28th (Thursday)]

DrJekyll posted 8/28/2014 10:17 AM

I will start with, Hang in there. It isn't over until its over. You can do this.

So what do you do?
You pull yourself up by the bootstraps and get back on the freaking horse. She has said some things that take away your hope. Happens to me too. What are you going to do about it? Is your hope with her? Or is your hope in you? muster down inside of you and find that spark. that piece of sunshine that ray of light. hold onto it. It may get better, it may not.

What you have to decide is, have you given this your all. Your 100% best effort? If not what else can you do? If so than you have done all you can, and then be proud of that.

As far as your anniversary. Play it by ear. Do what she wants. whatever that may be.

tired girl posted 8/28/2014 10:41 AM

Hang in there. Don't separate. If she wants that, she can initiate it. Plan something for your anniversary, if she doesn't want to do it, you can cancel it. This is better than you not planning anything at all. Trust me. Continue doing what you are doing, read books on your issues, continue SI, continue IC, and working on you. She is watching.

As far as your son, talk to him, find out what he could be interested in and find him a group with other kids so he can make some new friends. Get him active in something, it is important.

PenitentMan posted 8/28/2014 11:04 AM

You're both right, of course. I will try to keep it together. I made a reservation and I have a heartfelt card to fill out. Maybe I'll get some flowers as well. If she doesn't love them sitting on the kitchen counter in a vase, then I'll do my best to love them knowing I tried. Get back on the horse is right. I need to have some dignity. If this is how it ends then let me put on a nice suit and face it with my eyes open. And if it doesn't end, then I already have my suit on.

RMarred posted 8/28/2014 12:32 PM

Oh, my heart goes out to you, S.H... That initial post was so well-worded and defined, and man can I relate to that (have before, probably will again)...

If you're still wanting to try, then as it's been mentioned/recommended, keep trying. If you don't want it to end this way, then keep pressing, keep being there, keep loving.

My thoughts are with you, man.

PenitentMan posted 8/28/2014 13:16 PM

Thanks RM

She actually came home for a bit just now since she had to go in for a meeting this morning and now she just left again for her afternoon/night shift.

I told her I made a reservation anyway just in case and she says "Everything I said last night still stands, but I'm gonna be selfish and go with you because I appreciate good food."

Then she asked me how her hair looked and I said it looked great right before I starting crying like an idiot about how I should've complimented her more over the ears. Then I composed myself and apologized for getting all emotional.

She seemed in a good enough mood on her way out the second time. I'm so confused. It's going to be an interesting weekend.

Thanks for all the support. I think I would be in a far darker place right now if this site didn't exist.

veronique12 posted 8/28/2014 13:26 PM

I second the statement that you should keep on trying. A very hurt or scared BS sometimes protects him or herself by pushing away the WS. Given that your anniversary is coming up, I would guess that she's in a lot of pain and conflict. She is most definitely watching to see how you react to her attempts to push you away. Show her that you love her and are willing to do what it takes to keep your M. I love that you bought her the flowers and made the reservation. It's the accumulation of consistently loving and trustworthy behavior over a long period of time that will help rebuild trust for your BW.

[This message edited by veronique12 at 1:26 PM, August 28th (Thursday)]

Forged1 posted 8/28/2014 14:04 PM

BS here. Take what follows for what it's worth.

The recent drinking and staying out very late? Her smiling after you cried this morning? Trouble in the wind, dude. Lots of it.

Your second Dday was April 2014. It's now more or less September. Based on what you've related about her activities and attitude in a few recent postings, plus the time elapsed since DDay 2 (plus whatever's she's stuffed deep, deep down since Dday 1), I'd say she's hitting the anger stage right about now. And after two Ddays and the length of time in question here it's going to be....spectacular.

Man, I genuinely don't mean this in any way unkindly and this isn't a 2 x 4 or meant to hurt or frighten you, but the very Gates of Hell are about to open in your world. We're talking shock and fucking awe here. You'd better sack up and get ready for it, because it's coming.

PenitentMan posted 8/28/2014 15:30 PM

Thank you Forged1. I hope you're wrong, but if you aren't, I will try to take it like a man. I deserve her anger and wrath. I don't mean that in a depressing way, I mean I really do deserve it. I would take anger over nothingness. Anger is an emotion. And her having emotions is better than her feeling empty and without love. Anger can be spent.
Sadness can be cheered up. But if she really no longer feels anything for me, well, that too would be what I deserve.

Let the gates of hell open, for this is purgatory. I will face it with an open mind and an open heart. Let me be judged as worthy or let the fires consume me. I know you don't mean it unkindly and I truly am sorry for each and every BS out there. I truly am. I weep for us all, lost souls and betrayed alike.

Forged1 posted 8/28/2014 21:44 PM

The key to solving half of what's wrong is in the second sentence of your original post. Go back and read it until it makes sense to you. If you don't get it, you're fucked. Permanently. If the woman were to tell you any more clearly what's wrong, she'd be hitting you with a baseball bat marked 'clue'.

Oh, by the way - she knows that she does not yet have the whole story. She can smell it. It's coming out of your pores.

Instead of writing about purgatory and weeping for all the Betrayed Spouses, quit the one-man adaptation of Milton's Paradise Lost, give your wife the whole story and listen to what she's telling you.

PenitentMan posted 8/28/2014 22:00 PM

She has the whole story, and a pretty horrific detailed timeline that I wrote out shortly after..

The second sentence says I don't seem any different to her.
I'm not sure how to be anything other than myself, but I'll certainly be thinking about it...I've tried to do things that I don't normally do for her, in general

Forged1 posted 8/28/2014 22:32 PM

Has that horrific timeline gelled with what somebody else might have told her?

Read the second sentence again. Stop focusing on the part that's about you and read the part that's about both of you.

You keep saying that you don't know how to be anybody except yourself. Well, 'yourself' had at least two As. Perhaps instead of being yourself, you might become whould you should have been and should be.

I'm hearing a lot of "I can't because..." from you. You make a suggestion, she says 'no' and you stop. Your son needs attention, she's made suggestions and you do.....what do you do, exactly?

Introspection and working on yourself is all very well and good, but where are the overt, visible, taken-on-your-own-initiative marriage-centred actions? That's what she's looking for, and it seems to be something that not only are you not doing now, but weren't doing before.

Listen to what your wife is saying to you and stop assuming that everything she's saying us about your affairs. You're not pulling your weight in other areas and she's fed up with it. She can't express that to you because you'll go off into a shame spiral and nothing will get done.

Lowlow posted 8/29/2014 00:07 AM

Have you got you your "why" yet? Why did you have two affairs? Why did you cheat on her a second time? Why with her friend? Even if you don't know the answers now, can you assure her you are working on it and she is worth a truthful and honest answer, even if you can't give it to her now? That would give her some comfort, especially since you aren't currently in IC.

I guarantee the impending anniversary is a big reason she is feeling like shit, and as the gentleman above has stated, your focus on you is not cutting it. The focus needs to be on her and the anger torrent is coming, it is coming. She needs to get that anger out, especially if it didn't happen the first time.

I have seen your posts. I know you are working so hard to make this right, but the second (and double) betrayal has to cut like a knife. I do believe your heart is in this. But maybe she just needs reassurance that although you can't give her answers now, you are working with all your might to make it happen. That much is clear from your posts here, but does she actually 'know' this herself? This is not meant to criticize what you are doing, but it is quite possible that given the considerable hurt and shock she is feeling right now, she isn't sure of how much internal work you are currently doing. KWIM?

DrJekyll posted 8/29/2014 07:25 AM

After reading the above posts, a thought occurred to me. Something for you to consider. You are working hard, you are learning introspection and new coping skills etc. But possibly have not been learning how to show your BS this in her language. Maybe, just maybe the reason that you seem like the same person to her is that you are still communicating it in the old SH way. And are not communicating it in the SH's BS way. Just more food for thought.

PenitentMan posted 8/29/2014 09:06 AM

Yes, OW gave a similar story that BW was satisfied with.
Yes, I'm pretty close to having my why's nailed down.
BW came home last night and we were intimate and she made a statement like "Well, if I'm 'trying' then that includes having sex. And besides it's fun"
So, I consider that a win.

I'm not going to get into all the overt things I've been doing but she does acknowledge that I'm doing things I never used to do that she appreciates.

I think it was just a combination of being down on the rollercoaster and the upcoming anniversary. I haven't had to deal with much anger either, you're right about that.

Alright, well, plenty of food here for thought. I will keep fighting the good fight.

Forged1 posted 8/29/2014 09:12 AM

You're making this about you. Everything you've done, everything you're doing, everything you're being asked to do - you're making it about you, and not about your marriage.

Forget your wife and the dynamic there for a second. You were asked to do something with your son that involved exercise.

What did you do?

Your son mentioned something that interested him - archery. And you both invalidated and didn't listen to him because you dismissed it out of hand and started thinking about getting him horseback riding lessons instead.

He didn't ask about horseback riding. He mentioned archery as something that interested him. You didn't listen to him.

Start listening to what the people you profess to care about are saying to you, and stop being so bloody selfish.

PenitentMan posted 8/29/2014 09:27 AM

Actually, son and I went through a whole list of stuff together two days ago. Sports, gymnastics, archery, horseback riding. He says he changed his mind about the archery. He had brought it up once and then nothing since, so I kept asking him about it for a while. If he wanted to go, I would've taken him, for sure. He currently says he wants to join the boy scouts and earn badges and go camping and hiking etc. I've already been in touch to try to make that happen for him.
He also said he might be interested in learning how to rollerskate/rollerblade, so I might get him a pair of those this weekend and try to do it with him.

I realize it's hard to see/tell everything I'm doing from a couple of posts, and certainly my posts are about my feelings because this is where I feel safe venting them. I do spend a lot of time on my family. BW asks me to research something, or do something, I go research or do. I really don't feel like I'm being selfish in that regard.

somethingremorse posted 8/29/2014 09:33 AM

DrJ nailed it. You have been making the same sorts of gestures that you used to (nice restaurants, flowers, that sort of thing). Don't get me wrong, those are great. But it is pretty obvious that is "your way" of expressing love.

The two of you need to figure out what she wants to see.

but to her I seem like the same person and no different

My BW said the same sort of thing in MC early on. I was always nice to her, did things around the house. Doing those acts of service after DDay was not a change. BW needed to see that I was thinking and reacting differently. She wanted me to bring up things that bothered me. She wanted me to show her something that came up, how I used to handle it, and how I handle it now.

Doing this isn't just for show. If you are fixing your problems, share that with her. No guarantees that it will fix things, but you need to speak her language.

1bigidiot79 posted 8/29/2014 09:45 AM

Selfish, I just wanted to shoot you a word of encouragement. This thread has had a lot of "tough" love in it. As you have said I think your original post was partially a vent and a result of being down on the rollercoaster. I get that. SI is a place where we can come and get stuff off our chest and I know personally it does me good to get that poison out.

Take what has been said and apply it. I am going to do the same as I feel a lot like you do and need to apply these principles myself.

Anyway, just wanted you to know you were not alone and even though some 2x4's have been swung here, we need to feel them sometimes. Keep working. Don't focus on all the bad things. For goodness sake your wife came home and wanted to be intimate with you last night. Do you know how many people on this forum, including myself, would kill for that?

Stay positive and like others have said, keep the focus on your family, not yourself.

[This message edited by 1bigidiot79 at 9:47 AM, August 29th (Friday)]

tired girl posted 8/29/2014 09:55 AM

I think that is good that you are listening to your son on what he wants to do.

Have you read the five love languages book yet?