SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

I don't know how to explain the problem but I know there is one (or maybe two). This will probably sound a bit disjointed but maybe I can make more sense of this if I write it down and talk it thru with you guys.

He is usually good at making me feel like I am a priority, but sometimes he is not. Mostly when his other friends are around.

Like, he shares his place with his best buddy. We only have 1 or 2 nights together per week. We do see each other most days because we carpool to school. But we don't have a lot of quality or alone time....sometimes an hour or two.

We usually spend Sat nights together (last 7 or 8 at least). Last night we couldn't, I had my dd and I am not bringing him around her yet. He called once early in the day to vent about something his buddy had done and I was there for him. He texted at 10:00 p.m. he missed me and was I coming over (my dd was thinking about spending the night at her friends but did not). I was missing him also, so I called him. He was a bit abrupt on the phone and didn't contribute to conversation. I felt like I was bothering him. He was busy watching a TV show with his buddy. So it seemed like since I wasn't able to come over, he was done thinking about me.

This happens a fair amount of time. When he is lonely or he has a problem and he calls me, I always talk to him, or if I can't at that moment, I always call him back (even when we were just friends I did this). When it is the other way around though many times he just makes me feel like I am bothering him and he doesn't offer to call me back, especially if his buddy is home.

A couple of times I have called and he answered it very grumpily (he was sleepy) and he did apologize for those afterwards because he realized he was pretty rude. He told me to call him out on it because he doesn't want to be that way with me but he said if I allow it, he will get it in his head that it is okay to vent his irritations on me. So he is aware of it, and it kind of goes with the saying that you teach people how to treat you.

He is almost 30 and he hasn't been married but he has been engaged before. I kind of feel like I am training him how to be a good bf and I don't want to do this again.

There is more but I can't figure out how to put it into words just yet....

ETA: Okay, part of it is the relationship with his buddy. My guy is fairly mature (for the most part) but his buddy has a drinking problem, entitlement issues, and is somewhat narcissistic. My guy is finding this out about his buddy as they are living together. They have been friends most of their life, but he said he didn't realize this stuff until recently.

My guy is a child of an alcoholic and I do see some of the attributes you expect from this (he is a people pleaser and was the one in his family that always tried to smooth things over. He does this now in his relationships with others.) I had been working with him to stand up more for himself when we were just buddies. This was one reason besides his age that I did not date him when we were just friends, but he has gotten so much better about standing up for his own rights. I still see room for improvement though, and he does let his buddy walk on him a bit. Although also, it is his buddy's place and he is afraid of getting kicked out because he has nowhere else to go right now and we are nowhere NEAR ready to move in together. So I know some of it is him playing nice until he can get a decent job to support himself on his own (why he is going to school, but he has another year for his degree).

His buddy is manipulative and likes having my guy at his beck and call. He says he is happy for him that he found me, but his actions speak otherwise. My guy is starting to see this but I don't think he has fully come to terms with it just yet. He is starting to realize though that this is not a healthy environment for him and is trying to look into other living options.

Ugh.

[This message edited by NaiveAgain at 10:10 AM, March 17th (Sunday)]

Sounds to me like you've got yourself a project. It also seems to me like you are drawn to people that need to be fixed. You're a nurturer.

It's not up to you to help him fix himself. Step back, and see if he comes to you or not.

Sounds to me like you've got yourself a project.

Again?

I was just wondering if I am being too needy, or if this is normal behavior....I know no one can be totally available 100% of the time.....

Or does this sound like he isn't quite getting it?

And I know he will come to me. He always does. This relationship has been him reaching out to me most of the time, coming to see me, and if I don't call or text, he will at some point during the day. He doesn't let a day go by without some type of contact. I just don't know how much is normal or what and it seems the times I DO reach out, he isn't quite there....but that is just sometimes.....

[This message edited by NaiveAgain at 7:30 AM, March 17th (Sunday)]

I think everyone has times when they're distracted and perhaps don't give their partner 100%.

Regardless of whether it's "normal" it's bother you. Us telling you that it shouldn't bother you will probably make no difference (I'm not saying it shouldn't bother you, I'm saying you feel how you feel).

Have you talked to him about it? I think you should and then see what happens.

[This message edited by notmeanymore at 9:35 AM, March 17th (Sunday)]

Honestly, 30, unmarried, lives with a partying roommate? He may be nice, but it doesn't sound like he's finished growing yet.

(((((NA)))))

[This message edited by willowiris at 9:27 AM, March 17th (Sunday)]

Thanks for the replies and hugs, they are appreciated and needed. This is scary stuff to work thru for me.

I think everyone has times when they're distracted and perhaps don't give their partner 100%.

Yes, that is it. He called this morning, we talked for over an hour.

He was in his head last night. (Kind of like a mental "man cave".) He was decompressing, there has been a lot of stress on both of us past 3 weeks. So he was kind of escaping and decompressing and we were both in different worlds last night. I understand this. I go to my own little "safe" place sometimes inside myself too, and it can be difficult to pull me out of it quickly.

He did tell me though that if I really need him, to just work with him a bit to pull him out and he will be there for me.

I'm so glad we can talk these things through like this, honestly. This is what gives me hope for this relationship. I have to watch my own tendency to put the wall up quickly and mentally run. That is my escape for when I get scared or think that there is some pain coming. He knows about my tendencies to run so he works with me on that. That is what I wanted to do last night, and that would have been disastrous. Him in his "man cave" and me getting hurt and running .....bad tendencies for both of us. We are trying to learn to go to each other with our fears and insecurities, but it takes time. But like he says, we are building a strong foundation brick by brick by working thru each of our issues as they come up.

Honestly, 30, unmarried, lives with a partying roommate? He may be nice, but it doesn't sound like he's finished growing yet.

Thing is, he is so different from his roommate. He IS maturing and growing, and won't go along with a lot of the partying stuff. He is working hard to deal with his issues and learn, instead of hide from them like his buddy. He doesn't have anywhere else to live right now....we have both looked into other options, so he is kind of stuck for the time being, but he is wanting a place of his own at some point soon....

[This message edited by NaiveAgain at 10:13 AM, March 17th (Sunday)]

So it seemed like since I wasn't able to come over, he was done thinking about me.

I am like this. I would be pretty turned off if a guy expected me to be pining over him whenever we weren't able to spend time together. I also think its very healthy to maintain outside friendships while in a relationship, and to focus ones attention on the people physically present. (although this particular friend doesn't sound ideal, even in his perspective).

It sounds like you may want a more serious or structured relationship than he wants, at least from this brief description.

I agree that reading what you wrote about his friend and FOO makes him sound a bit like a project, or almost more of a parental/mentor role more than an equal romantic partner. It reads like you are waiting for him to figure out what you already have, or are guiding him to that conclusion. I would base that more on the difference in life experiences than the age difference, although some assume the two are synonymous.

I'm sorry you two are hitting this bump so soon. I know he has been really great for you, and hope you can work through it together to positive resolution.

I would be pretty turned off if a guy expected me to be pining over him whenever we weren't able to spend time together. I also think its very healthy to maintain outside friendships while in a relationship, and to focus ones attention on the people physically present.

I totally agree. We are both keeping up our friendships, although we try to go out as a couple with our friends more, but he still has "his" friends and I have "mine." I'm good with this, and I think it is healthy. But I do think, that if we aren't together for a while, a 15 minute phone call with the attention focused on each other is healthy also to keep a good connection. I feel that if we are going for a serious relationship (and this is what he wanted and pushed for before I was ready for it), that a short daily connection really is a necessity.

almost more of a parental/mentor role more than an equal romantic partner.

which is what I was thinking a couple years ago when I friend-zoned him. I can't be romantic with someone that I feel I am mentoring ...there is just an ick factor to it, regardless of the age. But the thing is, I am guiding him (or mentoring or whatever) on a couple of issues that I have already dealt with on my own and learned how to overcome. AND......he is helping me with a couple of issues of my own that I haven't worked out just yet. I am learning from him also, and he has been the voice of reason several times for me. So it seems more a give and take....we each have our strengths and weaknesses. He has had the insight to point out (lovingly and gently) a few of my issues and given his take on those, and he has been correct a few times. I feel we are helping each other to grow.

I'm sorry you two are hitting this bump so soon. I know he has been really great for you, and hope you can work through it together to positive resolution.

Thanks! I think we are working thru this one pretty good. I feel much better after talking with him, and I think working thru this type of stuff helps to make us stronger in the long run.

He is almost 30 and he hasn't been married but he has been engaged before. I kind of feel like I am training him how to be a good bf and I don't want to do this again.

No one, no matter how much experience, knows how to be a good bf for you. Like it or not, you will have to guide him a bit.

My policy with calling when my SO seems otherwise engaged, keep it short. If I'm just calling to chat, oh well we can catch up later. If it is something I really want to discuss, I ask that he call me back when he is available to talk.

I'm actually guilty of having half convos myself, sometimes you get it in your head that it is more considerate to take a call while busy than to put the call off until you aren't. It isn't, neither party enjoys it. I would prefer to be called on it and give my full attention.

a 15 minute phone call with the attention focused on each other is healthy

I'm not good on the phone. Part of that is that I am not good with interruptions. If my attention is on something, I have trouble re-focusing. I do better with scheduled calls, or if I am the one calling, because then I can finish one activity and then redirect my attention to the call. Is it possible he is the same way? If so, something as simple as a text saying, are you free to talk? as a five minute heads up, or a, call me when you have a chance tonight, I'd like to say hello since we can't see each other might make it easier for him to remove himself from something else which has engaged his attention (roommate, movie, etc) and focus on you. I know it helps me.

sometimes you get it in your head that it is more considerate to take a call while busy than to put the call off until you aren't.

Yes, and I have done that myself too.

No one, no matter how much experience, knows how to be a good bf for you. Like it or not, you will have to guide him a bit.

Thank you for that. You are absolutely correct on that, and I think it is helpful to see that in print. Everyone has their own quirks and issues. We are working hard on being there for each other based on that person's "actual" needs and not what we "think" they need.

If so, something as simple as a text saying, are you free to talk?

That will work if he is mostly cognizant, but if he is in his "escape" mode....I don't think he will retain it. He told me next time to please be patient and work with him on getting him out of his "escape" mode thinking. He wants to be there for me, but has not had to do this in the past and isn't used to it. He says he will get used to it though.

Ok... Let me look at this through the view of a younger guy (me 53) and an older woman (KD 63) and dating...

KD and I do see each other more than you two do but we each pretty much do what we each want to do when we aren't together...

We keep in touch via texts and very short phone calls although neither of us are phone people... 10 minute phone calls are real long to us...

When we first started dating the "keep in touch" communication thing was "different" compared to what I was used to with the ex... There were times I percieved she was disinterested but it is her way of "keep in touch" communicating... It is just her way... I ain't going to change that at this age...

The big thing to me was recognizing that just because she was doing things with someone else or alone I shouldn't "percieve" it to be diss to me... Most of the time I can't even call her because unless she's on call she doesn't know where her phone is...

I was missing him also, so I called him. He was a bit abrupt on the phone and didn't contribute to conversation. I felt like I was bothering him. So it seemed like since I wasn't able to come over, he was done thinking about me.

Gentle 2x4... That seems like a rather high schoolish assumption...

He is usually good at making me feel like I am a priority, but sometimes he is not. Mostly when his other friends are around.

When he's with friends or doing other things... Why shouldn't he be fully engaged with them? If KD felt slighted because I'm not pining for her when I'm with friends she'd wear me out on that attitude quickly... As when she's with me and my friends I'm not going to be as engaged with her as if we were alone together... I'm not walking a fine line of it either being her or them... It's all of us, friends, me and KD...

Him being cranky or short is something I'm not familiar with... To me, being pleasant is one of the simplest and easiest things to do even if I'm distracted or absorbed in something else... There's a difference between short and sweet and just simply short...

Ok, now onto his lifestyle... He's only 30... I was very mature at 30 but my lifestyle was completely different than it is now 30+ years later... Similar to KD and me... My lifestyle now at 53 is different to hers at 63... Similar in a couple of ways but different in far more...

His friends and acquaintences are his and were his before you... Doesn't mean you have to like them but you have to accept them as part of his current life... What his roommate or friends do or don't do isn't for you to judge... He's a big boy and doesn't need "training" about right, wrong or indifferent...

I remember being thirty and never married and being around formerly married older women... There was a chasm between lifestyles, wants and expectations in relationships...

One thing that's been interesting with KD and I is the process of finding if the differences of time, lifestyles, families, histories, expectations, wants and needs are compatible...

These age different relationships are unique in some ways I wouldn't have thought of... It's all a process of learning what I can live with and live without...

Maybe I got a bit wordy but simply put... Maybe your percieved "thoughts" or "feelings" he may or may not be having are in your mind and not in his...

WB

WB took the words out of my mouth. Read it carefully and see if you can work with this. If not, perhaps this is not the relationship for you.

Thanks WB. I appreciate your insight on this.

The big thing to me was recognizing that just because she was doing things with someone else or alone I shouldn't "percieve" it to be diss to me..

I do understand this. When I am busy at school, with my friends, or at work, he knows I am busy and will get back later with him. Same for him....I don't care that he hangs with his friends and I don't expect his undivided attention at the drop of a hat when I call.

I guess also, I failed to mention that we usually call each other at night to talk for a few and wish each other goodnight. That is basically what I was trying to do last night. He had just texted me, told me he missed me, and I was getting ready for bed. So I called him to say I miss him too, catch up with each other, and say goodnight. I also told him on the phone that it sounded like he was busy with his buddy (and this isn't a friend he sees once in a while, it is his roomie. He can take a few minutes away from his roomie to talk to me from time to time. He is there every day and 5 to 6 nights a week. Giving me 15 minutes an evening to talk and say goodnight is not an unreasonable request. And if he is "into" his show, I told him he could call me back later if he wanted.)

It would be entirely different if he was spending an evening playing cards or going to a game with his buddies. I wouldn't even bother him then except in an emergency, but it is routine for us to call each other in the evenings and talk....

So it seemed like since I wasn't able to come over, he was done thinking about me.

Gentle 2x4... That seems like a rather high schoolish assumption...

Yes, that was. That was more about my feelings than logic. We did talk about that this morning. I know I am prone to making judgment errors sometimes myself. He said basically that was when he was in his "escape mode" in his head. He said he wasn't really thinking about anyone or anything. He wasn't even really watching TV. He was half paying attention, half talking to his friend, half talking to me, but mostly just decompressing and trying NOT to think for a bit.

If KD felt slighted because I'm not pining for her when I'm with friends she'd wear me out on that attitude quickly

Yeah, that would wear me out too. I don't need him (or want him) to "pine" for me. I want him to talk to me for a few minutes every day and I want his attention on me for that short amount of time. I don't care when it is. I don't care if he wakes me up at 1:00 for it. I just want a little time to connect every day.

What his roommate or friends do or don't do isn't for you to judge

Nope, and I don't try to say anything to him about his buddy, but I do let him vent about his buddy. He feels his buddy is immature, narcissistic, and self-centered. Those are HIS words. I won't try to come between them either, however...I will not allow his buddy to treat ME the way he treats him. I am not walking on eggshells for anyone at this point in my life. He has to deal with his buddy but I also have my own boundaries and I do state those calmly. If his buddy disrespects me, I am not going to hang out over there with them. New guy will just have to hang with me outside of the house at that point. But as far as his drinking and crap, it is not my deal and I don't care what he does. Don't affect me.

One thing that's been interesting with KD and I is the process of finding if the differences of time, lifestyles, families, histories, expectations, wants and needs are compatible...

We talked extensively about what we both want in a partner and relationship before dating. We are on the same page with it, so that is very good here. We both want the same things in a partner and a relationship.

I don't mind your post being wordy. There is a lot there for me to consider. I appreciate it.

he doesn't want to be that way with me but he said if I allow it, he will get it in his head that it is okay to vent his irritations on me.

To me, this is the most concerning part of your post. It's kind of like saying, "I know I'm being a jerk, but you're LETTING me be a jerk, so it's okay." He's putting the onus on YOU for HIM to act properly. That doesn't sit well with me.

The rest of it? Not horrible, but it does sound like he's a lot of work. What is HE doing in this relationship? It sounds like you're doing all the work.

"I know I'm being a jerk, but you're LETTING me be a jerk, so it's okay." He's putting the onus on YOU for HIM to act properly. That doesn't sit well with me.

Yeah. You are right. Let me think on that one a bit.

What is HE doing in this relationship? It sounds like you're doing all the work.

Actually, he works very hard with me to talk things thru, he will spend hours explaining or working on insight into problems or issues; sometimes he will think for a few days on a problem until he can figure it out. He will keep talking to me until I am satisfied with the answer, and if he hears a question in my voice, he will pursue it until I have the answer I need. He has never gotten defensive with me and he doesn't blame others for his problems. He will look at himself on what he is doing to cause the problem and what he can do to fix the problem. He can tell by my silence or my voice when something is bothering me and he works very hard to help me with whatever it is, whether it is him or something else.

He does all the nice little things that makes me feel special, like opening doors, carrying my things (especially if they are heavy), taking care of me and waiting on me when I'm sick, running to the store to get me juice, calling on me to check on me when the roads are bad (or actually driving for me) and when I'm not feeling well.

He always pays for our meals out and he helps me with gas when he can. And if I tell him I have a problem with something, he will fix it, whatever it takes. He respects me and my wishes and my feelings. He lets me cry and holds me and comforts me (that is a big one for me...the WS got angry if I cried and my psychoX just didn't care--he ignored me.)

[This message edited by NaiveAgain at 6:08 AM, March 18th (Monday)]

The whole time I have been dating SO, we have only gotten to see each other 1-2 days a week. Because he works nights and I work days. Sometimes it is torture not getting to spend more time with him! But we have made it through in part because we talk a lot. Mostly on instant messenger, but also on the phone. SO calls me every night before work.

When you have limited time to spend, I don't think wanting regular talk time is a lot to ask.

"I know I'm being a jerk, but you're LETTING me be a jerk, so it's okay." He's putting the onus on YOU for HIM to act properly. That doesn't sit well with me.

Yeah. You are right. Let me think on that one a bit.

Ok. Thinking on that, he doesn't usually ask me to help him fix his problems. He will tell me "that isn't your problem to fix, it is mine."

In this particular instance, the two times he has been kind of grumpy, I had awoken him. And this is why he told me that even though he is sleepy and not thinking well at this point, I need to call him on his grumpy voice right away. And he did say that being half-asleep is no excuse to be grumpy with me, but he may not be as aware of it at that time so that is why he asked me to call him out on it.

When you have limited time to spend, I don't think wanting regular talk time is a lot to ask.

I agree. I think a regular connection between two people in a relationship is very important. And so does he. He usually works very hard to text me throughout the day "I miss u" or "I luv u" or "how r u doing?" And the days we don't see each other, he does miss me and makes sure I know it. We talked extensively yesterday about this incident and more. We have figured out what the problem is here and we are trying to figure out a solution to it. Together. We work on our problems and issues honestly and together. I like this and even though he may need some work, so do I, and what is most important to me at this point is the fact he is trying to better himself and work thru his issues. And he would be doing that with or without me, so I feel he is doing it for the right reasons.

[This message edited by NaiveAgain at 1:36 PM, March 19th (Tuesday)]

Why do you have to call him out for being a jerk, doesn't he KNOW already?

and YOU need to let him know when he is being X way so you can "pull him out" and he can be there for you?

No.

He is either there for you or he is not. You should not have to beg him to be nice and be available.

I think this guy needs some more time in the oven! He is not fully baked.

Wow, am I the only one who thinks being grumpy upon being woken up does not equate to being a jerk?

I'm a big jerk if it does.