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My wife and I are in our mid-30s, have been married for about ten years, and have been together for nearly fifteen. We have 2 children who fortunately are young enough to be oblivious to what has been happening. D-day was a week and a half ago. Our marriage hasn't been good over the past couple of years, but I thought things were getting better recently. There are definitely deep-rooted issues that will need to be addressed as we try to reconcile. This experience has stirred up emotions within me that I didn't know existed, and has made realize how much I want our marriage to work and that I need to make changes for that to happen. That being said, it has also been the most difficult period in my life. It has been sheer torture to cope with everything I am feeling while continuing to march through the days taking care of the kids, going to work, pretending everything is fine to those around me including coworkers and family members.

Here is a brief summary. My wife had a months-long affair with a coworker. I became very suspicious when I realized she had changed her email password (I set it up for her and we shared a password). She had been going out "with friends" a lot and coming home late (for her) while I stayed home to watch the kids. She started guarding her phone. Our sex life went to nothing during this period, and she was like a different (happier) person. I pieced all of this together one night and for confirmation I looked at her emails and texts on her phone while she was in another part of the house.

When I confronted her, I didn't reveal my sources. I leveraged the information I had from the emails and texts to determine if she was being truthful with me. As far as I can tell, she is being 100% honest. She and the OM decided mutually to end the affair to focus on their marriages. This happened just days before I found out. Their relationship was built on trying to help each other with their marriages, as strange as that sounds. But in the process things went way too far and they fell "in love".

She tells me it is over with OM and that she is committed to making our marriage work. In the days following D-day we both shed a lot of tears. She appeared to be very remorseful and was having a difficult time seeing how much this had hurt me. Initially I tried to detach myself from her, but I didn't have the strength to push her away. I let her demonstrate her affection for me and make me feel wanted and loved. We had sex frequently and it was better than it had been in years. There have been times that I felt very positive about our chances for R, but at other times it has been an impossible struggle.

Now that we are approaching the 2-week point, her behaviors have changed somewhat. She isn’t reciprocating the affection I show quite as convincingly, and for the most part she isn’t going out of her way to comfort and reassure me (though she might argue otherwise). She is doing much more than she would “normally”, but in my eyes it is not enough. I feel like I need CONSTANT reassurance and support, and when I have communicated this to her it has created severe tension between us. She tells me that she is trying as hard as she can and that nothing she does seems to be good enough for me. She says that she can’t act sad all the time, that she needs things to be somewhat normal to get by. We have argued about this a number of times and it has almost led to one of us spending the night elsewhere.

I am struggling to interpret her actions and words to know if she is truly committed to the R. I have read about the 180 and have been trying to implement it over the past couple of days, but it has been very hard. The more I act “OK”, the less she has to deal with the consequences of what she did, and the more anger and resentment builds within me. How am I supposed to deal with this?

The other major issue I have is trust, and how I can possibly carry out the 180 behaviors while dealing with my paranoia. She goes to work every day and sees the OM. I have demanded and she agreed to limit all contact with him to business only. I told her chances for R will be destroyed if I discover otherwise. She agreed to let me know about any non-business contact. However, I can’t help but wonder if they are carrying on an emotional connection. About a week after D-day I caught her in a lie. She had gone for a run and placed a call to OM’s work phone. It was less than 1 minute and she claims it was strictly work-related voicemail message. But the disheartening part is that I asked her several times if she had tried to call him, and she told me no. She tells me that she didn’t want me to worry about it. The fact that I spied on her by checking the phone records seemed to really bother her, but she acknowledges that her actions have given me a reason to do so.

When it comes to her email password, she insists that she needs a private outlet to be able to communicate her deepest feelings to her best friend (via Google Chat), and doesn’t think it’s fair that I would essentially be taking that away. I’m not sure how to proceed. I think she honestly believes that I’m being paranoid and pathetic by requesting to “spy” on her, and I can sense it has the effect of pushing her away. It does seem to me to be contradictory to the 180 behaviors. In one version of the 180 behaviors, I even read something to the effect of “don’t spy on your spouse”. In other versions it’s written as “trust but verify”. How can I verify without spying?

We have a weekend getaway planned soon. We set it up shortly after D-day and both agreed we needed some time to reconnect. We also both agreed that we needed to set aside more time (date nights) for each other. However, the 180 behaviors suggest not to do this. Am I interpreting that right, or is it basically suggesting not to “force” the WS into spending time with BS?

Any guidance you can provide would be appreciated. It’s comforting to know that so many others have experienced this and emerged successfully.

Welcome to SI PBST2. Very sorry you find yourself here. What you are discovering is that your wife is regretting that she has been caught. She is not truly remorseful. She is showing some positive signs, but truly remorseful...no. How do I know? She wouldn't be complaining about having complete transparency for one. There are no more secrets. Even between her and a friend. That friend may not be a friend to your marriage. You do not know. In a health marriage, complete transparency happens naturally. I have access to everything of my wife's in case of anything were ever to happen. And I mean everything. It's not even something we discussed. It just happens. (I'm not a BS or WS, but rather a betrayed child, now 40, and a long story as to why I'm on SI) She is also now showing true remorse with her sadness comments. Sorry, she's the one that fucked up. She has to heal both you first and herself. That's how this remorse thing works.

Having her maintain contact with OM, even in a working environment is going to be damn near impossible for you. Every time she talks to him/sees him, you yourself will not be at ease. There is not amount of her reassuring you will help with that. This is why people must have NC (no contact) with their AP's. Have you brought up the possibility of her finding another job? If she truly wants to R, she should be looking. That said, with the phone call she made to him...well she's already proven that she's a liar. I wouldn't believe her for a second. I would be more apt that since they are in constant contact they took the A underground. It's up to her to prove to you that they didn't by complete transparency, finding a new job, looking after your well being, etc.

There's no doubt she's still in a fog from the A and IMO most likely still involved in the A. What about her AP's wife? She needs to know asap. The more people that know, the less chance the A has of going underground and carrying on.

Here are some additional threads it you haven't had the chance to read them yet. Please check them out:

more 180 info under the target thread here:

http://www.survivinginfidelity.com/forums.asp?tid=232785

I would also recommend reading these target threads in the Just Found Out forum:

Tactical Primer

http://www.survivinginfidelity.com/forums.asp?tid=235051

Great Posts for Newbies to Read

http://www.survivinginfidelity.com/forums.asp?tid=361740

Boundaries and Consequences 101 for all new BS

http://www.survivinginfidelity.com/forums.asp?tid=385631

Before You Say Reconcile...

http://www.survivinginfidelity.com/forums.asp?tid=406548

For the foggy, unremorseful, cake eaters:

20/20 Hindsight: What I should have done when I J F O

http://www.survivinginfidelity.com/forums.asp?tid=446349

Please read these as well as prep for any sort of upcoming confrontation that you may have with her:

http://www.survivinginfidelity.com/healing_library/confrontation/no_contact.asp

http://www.survivinginfidelity.com/healing_library/confrontation/boundaries.asp

I would also print these out and hand them to her. They may help give her more insight into how much pain you are in.

How much does my BS hurt? ...

http://www.survivinginfidelity.com/forums.asp?tid=327446

Things that every WS needs to know

http://www.survivinginfidelity.com/forums.asp?tid=324250

Also make her read Not Just Friends and How to Make Your Partner Heal After the Affair.

Gently here, have you both been tested for STD's? Unpleasant experience but is a must. You would be surprised at how many times in these forums the BS found out later that there were STD's. In most affairs no protection is used even if they swear up and down that they did. And even then condoms to protect against HPV or herpes.

Next up, mandatory IC for your wife. She needs to get to the bottom of how she thought this was acceptable to her to do this to you and your family. This is not your fault. She is seriously broken in some way and she needs to figure out what that is. Not the excuses/reasons that the marriage was on the rocks or whatever you may or may not have been doing. That's all bullshit.

Keep reading. Keep posting. Sorry you are here, but we are here for you.

yop

Welcome PBST2.

I'm sorry you're here but glad you found us.

I'm sorry to say that your WW sounds exactly like my WH did a year ago. I'm about to divorce him. All the talk about establishing NC with his AP was lies.

The fact that she won't give you her email password is a HUGE red flag. She should be bending over backwards to make you feel safe and secure. She fucked this up, not you.

180 does NOT equal acting as if everything is ok.

Please consult an atty.

Please find an IC (individual counselor).

Then you can start thinking about MC if your WW starts showing true remorse (she isn't right now) or you can start moving on.

It's going to be ok. Focus on YOU and the kids right now. WW can fend for herself.

Your wife is not really remorseful. She needs to give you full transparency to her accounts voluntarily--there is no such thing as privacy for her right now if you are to feel safe. that doesn't mean you police her---but it means she is showing you that she is being open and will do what it takes to make you feel safe. Does the OM's wife know? He needs to be told, and your WW needs to start job-hunting. Please please try to stick to the 180, get into IC, and see a lawyer. That doesn't mean you need to file--but you have to take some steps to give yourself a feeling of control, because right now, she's holding onto all of the power in the relationship, and focusing still on her own needs instead of yours.

PBST

For what it is worth, here is my opinion. There are some who will tell you she needs to either get reassigned or quit her job. From your post, my guess is she would refuse that.

At this point, all you have is her word that they mutually decided to end it, and her word should not mean crap to you right now. She should be sending him a NC communication that you see telling him that he is not to be in communication with her on ANYTHING other than mandatory business.

Next, if he is married, you MUST tell the wife. She deserves the truth, and DO NOT tell you wife you are doing this so that she cannot warn OM to get his story straight.

Third, her "friend" is NOT a friend of your marriage unless you can confirm her friend was telling her to STOP to A and was not cheering her on or encouraging her. And if this friend is someone you know, was she acting as cover for her to lie to you.

Lastly, I would contact the OM and tell him that if he any more conduct with your wife that you consider inappropriate that you will contact HR of their company and file a complaint.

Now, is she going to be pissed at some of this. YOU BET SHE WILL. Tough shit.!!! She is the one who cheated and she needs to understand you are not eating this shit sandwich with no consequences for her.

As far as the 180 is concerned, it has to be adapted to each situation. With her working with OM, I think you are crazy if you detach and give her all the space she needs to rekindle this thing if it has ever stopped.

If she cannot understand it is her responsibility to rebuild your trust, than your M is doomed already. Right now you have nothing but the word of a liar as to what has actually happened.

And finally, as far as the lying. I think she feels that because she has confessed that she can now avoid the consequences. You need to let her know you are seeing an attorney and if there is any more lying by design or omission you are done

If she believes you are AFRAID of pissing her off or afraid of divorcing her, you will lose this battle.

Good luck. Keep posting..

She gets no contact with the AP, for my fWW, it was a condition of me not leaving her then and there. My W's AP got moved on at work, so that sorted that.

Agree on needing an attorney, get your options sorted and show your W you mean business. Then go and get an STD panel done and demand she does the same. 'But we didn't have sex?!?' is a common refrain from the cheater's handbook, and frankly means nothing.

Also, she doesn't get that private email account any longer. Sorry, but that right goes out the window when she decided to use your total trust you had in her as a weapon against you. It sounds like she is still in the fog.

Don't worry about the mad need to have sex again early on, it's called Hysterical Bonding and it is normal. It is not a sign that you both are desperate to R, it's your animal instinct kicking in to 'mark' your territory.

Stay alert in these few weeks and beware of trickle truth (TT)...a lot more will have gone on, I can almost sadly promise you that.

Are you going to tell AP's wife? I recommend it, it will make AP concentrate on his own shit, and not your W. Frankly, they will throw each other under a bus!

It will get better mate, but it takes time. Your situation sounds very similar to mine.

[This message edited by Hurthalo at 9:24 AM, July 2nd (Wednesday)]

PBST

Your wife is still lying to you. Trust your gut.

A. She cannot work with the OM.

B. Expose the OM to his wife. Do not tell your wife you are doing this.

C. Your wife or the OM finds a new job.

D. No passwords are kept from you.

E. All communication is open to you.

Last but not least if her GF knew about the OM then she is not a friend of the marriage. So if she knew she goes too.

Do not be needy. Be strong. Be confident. Let your wife know by your actions that you will be just fine without her.

And if she needs someone to talk to it is either you or her therapist.

It is that very same type of communication that got her into an affair in the first place.

HM

PBST

Your wife is still lying to you. Trust your gut.

HM

Happy man got it exactly right

Thanks for the advice everyone. Just to clarify a couple things, I have do have email proof that they agreed to end their affair (at least the physical part) to focus on their marriages before I found out. I do know they had sex. I do know they said that they loved each other. She admitted the latter two things to me. She has been 100% truthful with me when I cross-reference her answers to me with the emails.

She is holding firm about not giving up the email password. She says that by me taking away that outlet of private communication with her friend, it would "not help our cause". I'm not sure how to proceed. If I force the issue I know she's going to withdraw and be resentful. She discourages me from reading online for advice, saying that it just makes me worry too much. (She doesn't know about this thread, but it wouldn't surprise me if she found it just by searching a bit).

I have a name and address of the OM, but phone number is unlisted. Any tips for me if I were to consider informing OM's wife?

PBST2 it's as plain as day why she won't give you the password and you know it too. If there was nothing to hide it would not be an issue. It just wouldn't. Of course she is hiding something. That is also why she does not want you seeking advice. A HUGE RED FLAG!!! She is hiding more. This is what we refer to as TT (trickle truth) because you do not have it all. You have to force the issue because otherwise, whatever she's doing is going to continue and will be more detrimental to your M that if she doesn't give it up. FWIW, all WSs use this play from their playbook. Seen these same actions hundreds of times here myself now. It's textbook. She's already being withdrawn by being secretive and resentful because now you have caught her and she's not showing you full remorse. In order to save the M, you have to be willing to let go of the outcome. You have to force her off the fence.

Start forcing her to look at the consequences of actions starting with contacting the other BS. You know when OM works right? Either stop by the house yourself during the day, or send your proof via certified registered mail. Do not tell your WW that you are doing so until it's done. She will alert her AP and he will head you off. When you speak with her, be kind. Not sure if you want to as you may want to keep SI as your safe haven, but I have seen others give out SI while breaking the news. There could be complications with that though. Best to be firm direct, and show empathy. Explain how you feel as well.

What about contacting an attorney and learning your rights? That does not mean you have to file for D but will certainly give you a leg up if things head south in a hurry. You should know your rights and what could potentially happen. This includes finding out about child custody, possible living arrangements as far as what you can legally do, etc.

What about IC for her? Did you read the before you can say reconcile thread?

She is holding firm about not giving up the email password. She says that by me taking away that outlet of private communication with her friend, it would "not help our cause". I'm not sure how to proceed. If I force the issue I know she's going to withdraw and be resentful. She discourages me from reading online for advice, saying that it just makes me worry too much.

That's typical wayward script behavior. It's very likley their A went underground. That one call she made to the OM may have been just to tell him "Hey, my new e-mail account is KeepOurAffairAlive@yahoo.com". Her threatening you with the "not help our cause" statement is simply to get you to back off of her cake-eating attempt. She discourages you from getting good advice because it helps you see through her bullshit and doing so helps YOU relinquish control away from her.

I have a name and address of the OM, but phone number is unlisted.

Google peoplefinder for starters. Others may have more effective methods.

If you can, printout those emails and let the OM's wife read through it. Like YOP says, be kind and emphatic to her when breaking the news. Expect any kind of reaction, but remain calm. Leave her a contact number/e-mail if she later needs more info or if she wants to give you info. Defnitely start talking to attorneys now for familiarirty of rights and D process. Knowledge is power.

No remorse. She wants to be in control of what you know and what you don't know. No transparency. Ditto. Still working with OM? Still hiding email,account from you. More red flags than at a 1960's May Day parade in Red Square.

Sure, they want to work on their marriages,

. Sure. You know what the road to Hell is paved with?

What happens if one of the marriage reclaim action projects doesn't work out? Think OM will have forgotten about how wonderful the A was? Think WW will likewise get A amnesia?

You should carefully create and communicate to WW your list of conditions under which you MAY consider R. And let her know the consequences for violating those conditions. In plain English.

Yes,,this means your new name is Sherlock Holmes. Not a fun job,,but unless you spy on her you'll never know, and her rug sweeping will be the rule of your M. You don't want to go there, do you?

Sharing email passwords doesn't mean anything: cheater can easily set up a different, secret email account, for scheduling fucks and what have you. Not to increase paranoia, but it's easy to keep online secrets.

Good luck and best wishes.

[This message edited by Splitter at 2:03 PM, July 2nd (Wednesday)]

PBST2

The problem here is that your wife has fucked another man, and she is dictating the terms of your reconciliation if there is one.

Lets start with the first fact. It does not matter that your e mail copies match her story because if they decided to end it on their own, they could restart it on their own just as easily so her telling you that does not mean crap.

The fact that she refuses to give you total transparency means that either she wants to be able to get messages to OM through this girlfriend or that it is a more sinister reason. The point of the matter is why on earth would you believe anything she says right now. this other girlfriend probably knew about the A all along, may have enabled it in some way like providing cover for her, and this person obviously will know if she is banging him again before you.

if you have the Om address, get in your car with the proof and knock on his damm door and present it to his wife. If you have to take a day off from work and do it while he is at work.

Out him at work also. The more people that know about this the more chance you have of it not starting up again.

You wife has basically threatened you by saying that if you do not do things her way it will hurt your chances of R. You need to show her that YOU will decide IF you want to R.

Yes, she can get another e mail and try to go underground. That is why you need to see an attorney and let her know that if she does that there will be no more talking. But you have to be willing to follow through. Drawing red lines with no actionable consequences only weakens you in her eyes.

I would definitely install a VAR in her car and a GPS. You also have not gotten a detailed timeline as to where they met for sex, and how many times. That is important because then you can try to piece back to the excuses she gave you on where she was at those times so if that starts to happen again you are alerted.

Working with this OM she cannot be trusted with privacy. She is trying to intimidate you into rug sweeping this and having it her way.

All you have to do is read some of the other threads on here and you will see what happens when you let the WW take control of events and become paralyzed with hurt and confusion. The end result is more D Days and more hurt and pain.

You can avoid that but it takes courage and a spine but you can do it.

She is holding firm about not giving up the email password. She says that by me taking away that outlet of private communication with her friend, it would "not help our cause". I'm not sure how to proceed. If I force the issue I know she's going to withdraw and be resentful.

Very simply, she does not get to withhold information that you have requested, nor does she get to be resentful of you, or withdraw from you. Those are unreasonable stances from her at this juncture. She has betrayed you, destroyed you, decimated you, and is lucky as hell you can speak to her without calling her a bunch of unflattering names. Do not accept this!

Two things stand out:

She says that she can’t act sad all the time, that she needs things to be somewhat normal to get by.

First of all, things will get back to normal in due time and she is in NO control over that in any way shape or form. She caused this nightmare to happen to you, and only you can determine when things gets back to normal.

She has no idea what pain and what damage she has caused. She has no clue, most WS's dont have a clue about this. Because it has never happened to them, so they cannot imagine it and should never ever say to just get over it. This isn't like burning dinner and you order pizza and get over it.

Secondly:

She says that by me taking away that outlet of private communication with her friend, it would "not help our cause".

It was private communications that was involved in the affair in the first place. It is totally ruining any chance of her rebuilding trust right now.

What is our cause, it seems to be she has her own agenda right now and it is not for the marriage.

She has no business having private communications with anyone at this time. She has lost all trust at this time.

And she needs to do everything in her power to rebuild that trust. And private communications is not one of them.

If she cannot say the things to her friends as if you were standing next to her, than she shouldn't be saying them to anyone.

She should quit her job and look for another one. Though affairs can continue after this, but her working with the OM is not good at all for you. And in reality, right now, you are the one that matters.

Your wife needs to understand the true damage her actions have caused. She says she can't walk around sad all of the time, no one has ever asked her to.

She needs to read some books since the WS will listen to you, but it seems to go in one ear and out the other. But when they read the same exact words from an actual author, it sometimes gets through.

Have her read at least Not Just Friends. And maybe she will start to get it.

Again, thank you so much for your input. I did some more digging since I have been at home while she has been at work. I found out that she is indeed lying to me about the nature of the continuing contact with the OM. I doubt there has been anything physical, but certainly inappropriate conversation given the circumstances. I drew a line in the sand a few days ago that such type of contact would be reason for me to give up on reconciliation, so she was well aware of the consequences.

I confronted her via chat/email and demanded that she change her password or it is over between us. You know what she did beforehand? She deleted all incriminating conversations, both chat and email. So much for transparency. At this point I told her that I know she is lying to me and that she needs to sleep elsewhere until she's ready to come clean and agree to my demands, including quitting her job. She accused me of trying to "control her" and that it would never work between us if that is how I am going to be. She then said she is coming home and packing her things because she needs some space. (Funny, wasn't that my idea?) She is a master manipulator and control freak, and I feel empowered that I've finally waken up to it.

I had a nice phone conversation with a lawyer and we are meeting for a consult tomorrow morning. Mentally, at least right now, I feel like I'm moving on. I haven't given much thought to what life is going to be like in the future though.

I wonder if telling the OMs wife at this point about what is going on wouldn't help keep this OM out of your life.

I hope your wife isnt running around telling everyone you are to blame. This is where it gets nasty until, or if ever she gets the fact that she actually has done something wrong.

It is amazing how many WS's actually lie to themselves and others just to make their affair right.

She has basically told you she is going to continue the affair whether you like it or not.

blow this thing up to her HR department and OM wife and then serve her the D papers.

You cannot let the OM who is also continuing this get off the hook. Blow his marriage up as well.

The HB sex you are having with your wife would be fine if she was truly remorseful, but now she will use it as a sign that everything will soon be OK and on with the rugsweeping. In her mind she is not prepared to accept any consequences for her adultery; in a few more weeks you will barely be able to discuss it and she will react with anger if you bring the subject up.

She takes the attitude it was a silly mistake and you need to put it behind you and get on with life. You made things worse by agreeing to sexual relations; she is going to take that as a sign that this infidelity will soon vanish into the mist and things will get back to normal. She must think you can't be too distressed if you are eager to have sex with her.

You are losing your chance to make her aware that she has committed a grave act of disrespect to you and your marriage. She is going to get off scot-free and that will open the door to future adultery. You most certainly need to toughen up your attitude.