SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

Thanks for your support, friends, and for sticking with me. The site continues to be my salvation.

I am beginning this new thread since my situation has finally turned a corner (wife moved out). And because, to be honest, I am embarrassed by the length of my previous thread.

My wife took a carload of stuff to the apt. I am about to do the same.

I want to shift the focus of my new thread to beginning and maintaining the 180 and limited NC. ("Limited" of course because of the children.)

I failed miserably at both during our first separation, and it resulted in worse hell for me. I am bound and determined not to repeat this mistake so I can move on without her.

I must detach, as so many have implored me in the past. It is the only route to mental health as well as to an eventual (yes, eventual--way down the line, believe me) new relationship with someone else.

I know this topic--180 and NC--has been discussed forever on the site. But of course that is precisely because it is so essential to surviving infidelity.

Question 1: I know there is no "rule" for this and no stock answer, but do I detach, 180, and limited NC in anger or with "love"? Not "love" as in "I love you." But I read in Codependent No More about "detaching lovingly." That this is the best approach for oneself.

I still love her of course, but I am also angry--furious. But I do not want this to be apparent in any way in front of the children or even over the phone, email, and text. I do not want to constantly be angry, as I feel this poisons my mind. I want to reach a state of indifference to her and her issues.

2) the "kids and finances rule." My question may seem naive, but should I tell her or just do it? I don't really care about her response, since I know either approach will be met with anger from her. But this is about me, not her. And of course the children. Again, I don't want anger from me or from her to manifest in front of the kids, whether they are with her or with me. I guess this is a no-win question, huh?

But if anyone has gone with either approach, I'd like to hear your thoughts.

3). The big one for me: resisting my deeply-entrenched desire to care for her. To "do" for her, as I have done all these years. I just know that once the dust settles, she will be calling and texting seeking comfort, beyond child-related things, and other "husband perks" even when we are divorced and not just separated.

I don't want to tell her to go to hell, or even say angrily, "That's your problem, do it yourself." (Even though I will be thinking this.). Again, not because of her but for the kids. There just can't be any overt animosity in the air for them.

4) I feel like I am at a CODA meeting, but I have to say, "I am addicted to my wife--or at least my marriage." The addiction, the cycle, the drama triangle, must stop. Any suggestions on how to resist calling/texting? (This feels pathetic; for god's sake, I am 46 years old!)

I will have other questions along the way, but this covers my concerns for now. I just know that once she sees how dramatically my demeanor will change, she will become angry, defensive, go 180 right back at me, or pout, or blame. Or worse, tell me how much she loves me. This is the most powerful weapon in her arsenal.

I need some advice on how to deal with the above.

Thank you!

The big one for me: resisting my deeply-entrenched desire to care for her. To "do" for her, as I have done all these years. I just know that once the dust settles, she will be calling and texting seeking comfort, beyond child-related things, and other "husband perks" even when we are divorced and not just separated.

After the dust settles, huh?

I can tell you that HELPING HER MOVE OUT qualifies as "something that is no longer in my job description", so make that car load you are probably already on your way over with right now the last one.

As for the rest of the NC with kids and finances, the best thing I did was implement an "email only" communication plan. If it's not emergent - and I mean like hey, the kid could use one of our kidneys, head to the hospital - then it's discussed via email.

And within that parameter, I only responded to emails and parts of the emails that were kid and finances related.

So if it was "hey, kid #1s practice time changed, why don't we get back together?"

The answer is "I will get Kid #1 to their new practice time".

End. Of. Email.

Texting is for urgent situations; everything else goes through email.

I must detach, as so many have implored me in the past. It is the only route to mental health as well as to an eventual (yes, eventual--way down the line, believe me) new relationship with someone else.

This comes down to the chicken-or-the-egg, but I think that detaching comes *after* you have done NC for a while. Gives you some breathing room, then healing can begin.

It will feel like an ill-fitting shoe at first, but eventually it starts to feel better.

3). The big one for me: resisting my deeply-entrenched desire to care for her. To "do" for her, as I have done all these years.

Give it time, eventually you will find it pleasant not having to cater to her constant demands. I had a really hard time detaching from my XH. I would lie awake at night worrying that he was going to burn his shirts with the iron. Eventually I realized it was AWESOME not having to spend one evening a week with a pile of his ironing.

You don't have to be mean about it. But remember that she needs to learn to do for herself just as much as you need to learn to not do things for her.

4) I feel like I am at a CODA meeting, but I have to say, "I am addicted to my wife--or at least my marriage."

Try not to think of it that way. You were married a long time. You cared for her and being part of a marriage was part of your normal routine. It will take time to adjust to your "new normal". This does not make you addicted or a victim. It makes you human.

No you definitely don't tell her you're doing 180. You do demand that any necessary contact be via email. It doesn't matter if she likes it or not. Her M is crumbling....largely by her choices...and she NEEDS to learn what life for her will be like now that she 'fired' you as her H....and this is for your own health and safety too. Document everything!

1: I know there is no "rule" for this and no stock answer, but do I detach, 180, and limited NC in anger or with "love"?

The goal is to reach indifference. In the beginning with the 180, imo, it's less "this is how you do it" and more "do it however you can". If it takes anger then use it, if it takes popping a rubberband on your wrist use it. Change your ringtone on your phone so when your WW calls it plays "Bitches aint shit" by Dr. Dre or change the ringtone to a donkey call anything to snap your mind into defensive mode until it becomes a natural thing. The Dr. Dre thing is crass but I used to play that in the car on the way home from work, you do what you have to man. After the first few weeks of successfully fighting the urge to reach out or respond it gets easier. For me I kept the following statement in my head on repeat for weeks. It was the only thing that kept me from caving and reaching out:

My WW fucked her married coworker for 3 yrs behind my back and didn't tell me.

You won't be angry all the time, the roller coaster is still in effect which is why you use whatever you can to give yourself strength to maintain NC and the 180 until you reach indifference.

2) the "kids and finances rule." My question may seem naive, but should I tell her or just do it?

Just do it. You don't need to tell her anything. She will get the message. The less contact the better.

3). The big one for me: resisting my deeply-entrenched desire to care for her. To "do" for her, as I have done all these years.

As other stated she fired you from the husband role. She must fend for herself just as you must fend for yourself now. She took care of herself during the A so she is a capable adult. She will be fine. It's okay to say NO. It's gets easier the more you say it. No need for debate you just say no and move on. The more time you spend away from her the more reality sinks in and it gets easier. She is the drug you are withdrawing from and cold turkey is the best way to do it. Yes she is going to reach out after a bit but that's why you detach NOW so when she does you have some distance and remember the hell you just went through with her and you won't want to go through that again.

4) Any suggestions on how to resist calling/texting? (This feels pathetic; for god's sake, I am 46 years old!)

Stay busy. Go out and do something. Get that list of things to do out and start working on it. Start focusing on what you will do when your semester off from teaching is up. Go meet some new people or catch up with old friends. Keep going to IC. The more time you invest in keeping busy, working on yourself, making new memories with your kids, and genuinely rediscovering yourself is what keeps you from reaching out to her. It's like reaching critical mass. You just keep building and working at detachment until you hit that sweet spot, the reaction is self sustaining, and you have reached the point of critical mass or more accurately indifference. Yes it is hard in the beginning and it takes time but it is SO worth it.

[This message edited by 7yrsflushed at 10:39 AM, May 16th (Thursday)]

You just do it; it only becomes easier with time and persistence. It's not going to be easy; it's change, and change is never easy, especially when it's something that you didn't want to happen.

And then that day comes when you get a text at 6:30 AM saying that s/he doesn't know what s/he did to deserve you, but you are the best thing that happened in his/her life ever. And since it's four years later instead of feeling stabbed through the heart, or hopeful, or angry, you feel a little bit sad, or even some sympathy, but you know better than to reach back at all.

I am very, very happy to see that you have come to a place of action than one of reaction. It's not a comfortable place now; but it will ultimately be one in the future.

I still love her of course, but I am also angry--furious. But I do not want this to be apparent in any way in front of the children or even over the phone, email, and text. I do not want to constantly be angry, as I feel this poisons my mind.

I don't think you respond with anger or love, just the facts. Treat her like an incompetent co-worker. You wouldn't be rude or curse them out or bring emotions into it, just state the issues. And you wouldn't tell them you aren't gonna get emotional, you just wouldn't.. And this is MUCH easier when you limit it to email. You can have time to respond properly instead of just accidentally letting them emotions out like you might in a phone call or seeing her face to face.. Paper trail helps immensely as well.

A little example for you:

STBX: "What the hell? I don't have a pension plan with work. Now I have to spend more money on lawyers bitch."

Me: Ignore, thinking, "Yes you do dipshit. If you had disclosed it in the first place you wouldn't have this problem."

STBX: "Well what the fuck? Now I have to go see my lawyer today, so you pick up the fucking kids from school bitch."

Me: "Okay. I will pick up the kids."

See? No emotion. Just the facts. IGNORE EVERYTHING not directly related to kids or finances, and only those things that are important to respond to related to kids and finances..

Good luck! I'm so glad you are even thinking about this stuff right now

Oh, and

If it's not emergent - and I mean like hey, the kid could use one of our kidneys, head to the hospital - then it's discussed via email.

Exactly!!

Abbondad,

You asked about anger or love. The eventual goal of the 180 is neither. It is indifference.

I think you helping her to move says alot right there. WHY are you helping her? She made the choice, she is a big girl....don't help her.

The very hardest part like many others have said is to stop with thinking of what she needs or is she OK or paying a bill for her or taking care of anything at all.

I would say when you start to think of anything at all that you "think" you are going to do for her you should wear a rubber band and snap it hard. Each time a thought comes up *snap* that band.

And I had to put my cell phone on silent under my then WS's name. Just so I would not rush to answer it every single time.

I agree that you need real NC from her....FOR YOU. You need to learn to be without her and it all starts by NC.

Consider her in the same league with a particularly odious and devious business associate with which you must work.

Keep it all business and email only, do not respond to fishing or baiting.

Do not share emotions or opinions on anything but finances and children. Your day was "just fine." You are "just fine." It is going "just fine."

She FIRED you from the job of caring for her, so why would you want to volunteer to keep doing it gratis? Each time you are tempted to cave, tell yourself: She fired me from that job.

Treat her with cool civility and dignity. If you must converse, talk about the weather. Nothing else. She will soon get the hint.

Read my article "NC with the WS in the Healing Library. It will help.

Cat

Hello, all,

Ok, quick advice needed for tonight as I begin the 180.

(I have the kids tonight.)

When we last separated and I had the kids, she would call to say goodnight to them. Even if she called my son's phone and not mine, my son or daughter would always want me to say goodnight to her.

I always would. And it usually turned into "So how are you?" Or a tearful "This is so hard," or worse, "I love you." The above would be uttered by either her or me. We seemed to take turns. It immediately sabotaged the 180, of course.

I know this seems like a trivial detail, but the devil is in the details for me in this 180 and NC, especially early on.

Again I am also thinking of the children. I have airily dismissed this in the past to the kids: "Just tell her I said goodnight, K?" But this would result in them asking, "what's wrong? Are you mad at mommy?"

And of course this breaks my heart and I could not sustain this night after night.

This and a hundred other moments like this will be coming up. If I could get some advice with this one conundrum I think I can apply the "spirit" of it in other situations as well.

I'm thinking the best approach is the simplest and most obvious: take the phone and say "Goodnight."

Jesus, this is ridiculous... I can't believe what my life has become.

Thank you in advance.

If this helps, my son had a performance at school last night and kept asking for me to sit next to STBX. And I had to keep telling him no, mom and dad will both be there to support you, but mom and dad don't sit together anymore. It's about creating a new normal for them, and showing them that the new normal will be okay..

I would say don't talk to her on the phone. It gives her an "in" especially given what this has lead to in the past. I think talking to her to appease the kids will also do more damage than help. Like I said in an earlier post, it gives them false hope, and they have to learn things are different, but everything will still be okay..

Good luck..

AD,

DO NOT talk to her on the phone! It's that simple. Is it about the kids or finances...no! You may THINK its about the kids, but it's not. It's about power and control.

So, before the kids EVEN HAVE THE CALL, you tell them...I've already said goodnight to mom, I don't need to speak to her on the phone. Or something to that affect. Which is a version of the truth. You have said goodnight for hopefully the final time.

If the kids don't like it, you just comfort them. Tell them mommy and daddy will only being talking via text or email for now/forever.

But don't put yourself in that position, and once again, hurt the kids in the process. Believe me when I tell you that it will hurt them far more to see mom and dad "playing nice" (fantasy), then to see reality. Reality does not have to be ugly. But it does need to be truthful.

Well, I think this happens to everyone at some point. It

happened to me during the Early Days. My kids were older than yours and knew the truth about the OW at the time, so my situation was a bit different.

I'm reluctant to tell you how I dealt with it because it's embarrassing to admit, but what the hell...

When XH called, I made myself really scarce - I guess you could say I hid - in the bathroom. I'd decide to have a bath just as soon as I saw who was on caller ID.

When X asked to speak to me, then the kids could truthfully say that Mom was in the bathroom. If he thought it was important enough, he'd call back and leave a message - a message I could answer by email if I thought it was important enough.

Once the water bill started getting too high, I simply told my kids I didn't want to talk to him. They understood, and more importantly XH did too, because he stopped asking shortly thereafter.

There's always some way around these things.

Stay strong...and stay off the phone.

....Nibs

[This message edited by ExposedNiblet at 7:48 PM, May 16th (Thursday)]

In the beginning?? I went outside when WH called or Skyped. If the kids said, "Do you want to talk to Daddy?" I would either say, "not now" or "no, thanks" or "i'll talk to him later". Or I would simply be scarce. Tell the kids, "Hang up when you are finished talking with Mommy."

2.5 years out my kids will still ask, "Do you need to talk to Dad?" I still respond with, "Not tonight".

You ARE separated and headed for divorce. Hiding this from them is NOT the goal. You have to start establishing you are their parents but not together.

Trust us when we tell you, the more you talk to her, are around her, do little things for her...the longer it will take to detach and move on. The more contact you have, the more it hurts.

It is a CHOICE on your part now. You have to choose every single moment of everyday to detach, detach, detach. I had a hard time no longer caring for EH. Not cooking for him was really hard, since I had done it for so long.

When he came into the house (the first several months he came over almost every night to see the kids) I would go to my room and close the door, or I would leave the second he got there and go work out or go shopping. I would ask him to be in his car when I got home so there was no interaction. So, he would pull out of the driveway as I would pull in.

*I* had to take control of MY healing and detachment. You ex isn't going to do it for you. You have to draw the boundaries and you have to enforce them.

#1 - Civility is your friend. No anger. Take the high road. Just think of her as a friend that has done you wrong. Be civil, cool, and collected.

I am not good at 2 & 3 so I won't even bother with advice there.

I am, however, a master at #4. I have only reached out ONCE since all this started a long time ago and I immediately regretted it. If you get the urge to reach out, do ANYTHING else. Go exercise. Play with your kids. Bargain with yourself to last an hour. If not an hour, a minute. Then go one more minute. If you can't stand it, call someone ELSE. One of my poor brothers must have said DON'T CALL HIM approximately 500 times one particularly bad night near the beginning. Eventually the urge passes. Just wait it out. You can do this. Call friend after friend after friend if you have to. People understand, especially in the beginning.

I have not done the detachment process "correctly". Even so, I am getting there. Unfortunately, it takes time, but the holy grail of indifference gets closer every day. It will for you, too. The less contact, though, the quicker you will heal. Again, I don't reach out but I do eventually respond to calls and talk about things other than kids and finances so it's pot/kettle over here but I can say without a doubt that it has slowed my healing. Luckily, my husband's douchebaggery is neverending so I'm getting there regardless.

I am pretty detached. In fact I think once I got it, I was pretty much a poster boy for detachment. Its about what you do and how you handle each and every interaction. I was so relieved when WXW moved out and things improved dramatically almost immediately. We had and still have ongoing contact by phone, face-to-face and text/ email. Its all business though and that's because I made it that way from the start.

Oh she tried - many many times. But I just ignored it, closed it down or sometimes made it clear that I had no interest in those discussions and that the time for all of that was passed.

It pissed her off and I have no doubt that she thought at times that I was an emotionless machine. For a woman so driven by emotion this was hard for her to fathom. But for me it allowed to me to have the interaction that I felt necessary to manage things as best we could for the kids and for the S agreement etc without getting dragged into any emotional dialogue.

I also feel that what the kids need to see is civility and co-operation between the parents. They need to see that you two are able to put aside whatever differences you have in order to put their needs first. What they don't need to see is any lingering emotional attachment or co-dependent behaviour. You are modelling behaviour for them - show them the right way. No anger, no bitterness (keep that for your own time if necessary to process it all) but civil, business-like co-operation.

Part of this also extends to not helping her out all the time. This was harder for me - I was so used to being the fixer. Now the only area in which I help out is taking the kids when its her time with them if she has something that means she cannot do it - I rarely refuse this because it is extra time with my kids. I'm sure she thinks I am still helping her, but I am not - I am seeing my kids. It doesn't matter what she thinks.

You can do this AD and once you start it gets easier. It will give you the mental space to start processsing your own hurt and begin healing. Each time you do it you will feel a bit better, a bit stronger. You will feel more in control of your own life.

As for saying goodnight to her - you do not need to do this. The kids do not need confusion now - like you they will need to face the reality that mum and dad are no longer together. It is hard, but ambiguity is much worse for them. The only way for them, as for you, is through it. So start as you mean to continue. Be clear, be civil and DETACH. And support the kids as they get their own heads around the changes.

Others will have suggestiosn about how to keep away from the phone etc. I have to say that was never really my challenge - I was just so glad to see the back of her I was rarely tempted to make contact. The rest of the time I was BUSY.

Good luck and keep posting.

Dad,

It seems like all your questions boil down to "how do I stay on the 180 train"? Since you obviously come to SI for support and advice, you might do what I did a few years ago and start a thread in D/S or General to check in every day about your attempts to implement the 180. I did it to be accountable somewhere and I would talk about what I did for me, when I fell off by interacting with Daffy, and other "riders" would occasionally jump in with their stories or support. I found it really helpful. (Unfortunately, I didn't save the thread!)

There's also the peace train of healing here in D/S. That may be helpful to you as well.

I'm really happy to see that you're moving forward. Good for you, Dad. I'm so proud of you!!!

If your kids know that you two are separated, and that D is coming, I see nothing wrong with laying down the new rules with them.

Simply tell them Mom and I only talk to each other about you guys now. When she calls I do not want to speak with her. If they ask why you tell them that you and her have agreed that this is best, to keep from confusing them, or starting new fights. Then reassure them that you both love them more than life itself. Give great big hugs. BUT DO NOT TALK to her. The easy way or what appears the easy way is not the best or smarter option this time.

slight t/j...ImNellNow..I remember that thread...it was awesome...